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Acme Full Range Series III 112

#81
KJ,

Which cab is best suited for the use with the Puma 500 (or MB LMIII). I have both Puma 500 and Tecamp S212. I am thinking about getting a second cab that is easier to schlelp than the S212. Im also thinking about selling the 500 and S212 and re-purchasing a LMIII and new cab (either a TC or Acme). I guess my purchase plans will depend on which of the two cabs (TC or Acme) work better with the MB LMIII or Puma 500 head. Thanks for the reply!
 
#82
g4string said:
KJ,

Which cab is best suited for the use with the Puma 500 (or MB LMIII). I have both Puma 500 and Tecamp S212. I am thinking about getting a second cab that is easier to schlelp than the S212. Im also thinking about selling the 500 and S212 and re-purchasing a LMIII and new cab (either a TC or Acme). I guess my purchase plans will depend on which of the two cabs (TC or Acme) work better with the MB LMIII or Puma 500 head. Thanks for the reply!
Click to expand...

That is a tough one. Both of these cabs work well with those two heads. It is hard to beat the Thunderchild 112 regarding maximum volume, musical low end, and size. If you want BIG low end the Acme is wonderful.

The more time I spend with the Acme, the more I realize it is a bit of a 'specialty' cab, just like the original B110/210. That HUGE low end and low SPL is just different than anything on the market.

The 'safe' bet is the Thunderchild112. If you play at moderate volumes, and don't play aggressively, the FullRange is a beautiful thing.

My guess is, for your heads and in comparison to the S212, the Thunderchild would be my recomendation.
 
#83
ajn said:
Thanks Bluesy Soul, this is exactly the kind of situation I'm talking about. Since you have both the Flatwound and the FullRange, how would you describe the difference in their sound? And if you only could have one of them, which one would you pick?
Click to expand...

First of all, I have to say that I think we're often guilty--myself included--of trying to differentiate among angels on the head of a pin when it comes to amp and cab tone, while paying too little attention to venues, style of material, playing technique and other equally-important factors. But now, having said that...

I would honestly pick the Flatwound if I could have only one. KJ is right about the improved upper mids and highs of the FullRange compared to the Low Bs, but I predominantly play a different style and just don't use them. The primary reason I own a FullRange is because Andy wanted someone to test it and I was mildly curious. FOR ME, it adds nothing over the Flatwound; but I normally play:
-blues, R&B, classic rock, jazz, some country. Never metal, fusion, solo, etc.;
-fingerstyle and very occasionally with a pick. I do not slap;
-a P-bass;
-with flatwound srtings;
-with my strings muted fairly heavily to kill the overtones; and
-with most of the treble rolled off.

That's about as Old School and one-dimensional as it gets. If you slap, use pedals, play regularly with some "grind" or otherwise seek to stand out in the mix rather than blend into the pocket, the FullRange is probably a better choice for you.

There are a couple of songs where I use a little bit of grind because audiences are used to hearing it in the original recording and the FullRange does produce that tone a little bit more readily than the Flatwound; but it is truly quite subtle to me. Not worth even an extra $100 IMO.

KJ seeks more upper mids and highs than I do and plays other types of material, so I expect he would find a greater difference between the two than I do. Without putting words in his mouth, I expect he would probably prefer the FullRange (after he's tried both). I, of course, have not tried the Thunderchild.
 
#84
+1 to the above (obviously). If you aren't putting anything into a rig above 1K or so, then any sort of upper extension of the frequency range would make literally no difference.

Also, if you are playing a 4 string as a sound source into the Acme's, they will not sound quite as differentiated from other cabs as a 5 string, since the primary goal (and hence the trade-offs in absolute volume and SPL) happen way down low.

For my more 'fullrange tone', the Fullrange mirrors a more typical 2 way box up top, with the addition of that huge low end extension (for better or worse).

With my 5 string P Bass with nickel wounds (ash/maple... so very bright on the P Bass continuum), the Fullrange sounds absolutely fantastic. With my burpy, low mid present Sadowsky J (that puts out a much more 'burpy' attack and front of the note peak than a P Bass, with more absolute deep low end compared to my 5 string P Bass), those low mid peaks on the B string seem to overwhelm the the FullRange when you really dig in at the bridge (more with the F500 that really pounds those low mids, not so much with the Streamliner900). The Thunderchild works much better when really pushed at high volume with that sort of instrument and amplification pairing.

Again, trade-offs... no free lunch. All wonderful boxes in their own way.

For 5 string P Bass players (or 4 string players for that matter), two of these (two flatwounds or a fullrange/flatwound, depending on your upper frequency needs) with a bit of power would be an amazing, lightweight, two box rig that would sound as fat as any 215 box, and would be smaller, lighter, and more articulate.

For players with a more modern instrument, slappers, and those that really dig in at the bridge and 'burp' with a very hard attack, I would probably suggest a different cab (Edit: Of course, if you play at relatively low volumes, then anything will work with the Acme's).
 
#85
One more picture and a few more initial comments on this cab, now that I have even more hours on it (gig report will be in a few weeks, when I believe I have an appropriate sized gig for this cab).

With my very aggressive Sadowsky bass, I can get the Acme to bottom out a bit when really digging in and cranking with the Markbass F500. I thought 'OK, small box, big low end, how much can you expect', especially with the aggressive low mid burp of the Sadowsky. So, this morning, I've been playing through the Streamliner900 and Sadowsky, and my gosh, massive, clean, non-compressed low end versus the F500.

Is it the additional power? I don't think so, since I'm not pushing either amp that hard. My guess is it is a combination of voicing and the Genz engineering emphasis on 'musical' hi pass filtering, that allows for the Streamliner to have a huge sounding low end, but yet the driver control is magnificent.

One thing for sure, just like the older B210's, the Acme full range will result in you hearing amplification, basses, and technique quite 'nakedly', bringing out the good and the bad. The mix and match is pretty key with this cab. The Streamliner (600 would be great with a single 4ohm, and the 900 would kill with one or two 8ohms) is a perfect match to my ear... fat, warm, articulate, and BIG without causing any speaker flubbing.

The look is very cool also, with the black top of the Genz, the white lettering of the Genz logo, and the brushed aluminum front, the head looks like it was made for that cab.

You can see that beautiful sounding little tweeter in the lower left hand corner a bit better with this pic also. I kept my Sadowsky in the picture to show how small this rig is (the Sadowsky has a 'dinky' sized J body).

GenzAcme.gif
 
#86
KJung, this is a great thread. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the FullRange cabinet. I really want to try one (or two!) of these with my Carvin B800. And this thread has given me the "itch" for a nice 5-string P-Bass (or its equivalent).

Bluesy Soul, I don't remember if you mentioned this already, but were you using a 4-string or 5-string P-Bass with your FlatWound and FullRange cabinets? I don't recall that you specified either way... :)
 
#89
I just got back from an outta town trip and wanted to say thanks to all who have responded to my questions about whether one of the "super 12's" would fulfill my needs. Have I made up my mind? Well, no. Not yet. But you've all given me food for thought. And I'm thinking before I decide I should wait to hear more about the TC115 once it's out.

I recently took a chance and bought, and then had to return, a composite fEARful 12/6/1 that I got from a TB'er. It was not in good working order. No slight to the TB'er as he was excellent to work with. I didn't get a chance to evaluate it at all except for the form factor which was great. That's why I'm really curious whether that cab, the TC112 or FR really would be able to cut the mustard (NOT the cheese).
Al
 
#90
Just to add the Full Range user experience. I have one (4ohm) and am very happy indeed with it. I have tried it out with 3 different heads.

Demeter HBP1->Yamaha P5000. Lovely lovely lovely. Heavy. The rack was about twice the weight of the cab, but was all I had at that moment and had to leave for a gig.

GK MB Fusion. This seems to be a happy match. I like the noise it makes. I cannot usefully describe the sound in detail because it is just not something I am good at. I am just happy with the easy open voicing all the way down to bottom B. It really gets on my nerves hitting something below E and hearing the cab go "sorry" rather than "roar!"

Aguilar TH500. This also sounded great but I think the efficiency was an issue because I was clipping the powerstage before I managed to do so on the GK so that is now going out of the door.

I have another couple of cabs (Berg AE 2x12 and a Berg IP310). Obviously this is total overkill and I bought the AE 2nd hand on a whim, knowing that I will be able to shift it easily if I still prefer the IP. The IP does it for me in a way that nothing else has but the schlep factor is pretty intense and I am toying with the idea of getting a 2nd ACME. I would then need to go for 2 8ohm ones as none of the micro heads do the 2ohm thing, or I could pick up an EA iAmp 800. The thrill of the chase :)

For the record, I could happily live with a flatwound as well. I do not need the upper extension. It sounds nice up there, just not a range I use. I guessed this would be the case, but I was importing it to the UK and did not want to kick myself by finding that I was missing it. Andy has told me how to take it out of the picture so I will be doing that soon.
 
#91
Peredur said:
Just to add the Full Range user experience. I have one (4ohm) and am very happy indeed with it. I have tried it out with 3 different heads.

Demeter HBP1->Yamaha P5000. Lovely lovely lovely. Heavy. The rack was about twice the weight of the cab, but was all I had at that moment and had to leave for a gig.

GK MB Fusion. This seems to be a happy match. I like the noise it makes. I cannot usefully describe the sound in detail because it is just not something I am good at. I am just happy with the easy open voicing all the way down to bottom B. It really gets on my nerves hitting something below E and hearing the cab go "sorry" rather than "roar!"

Aguilar TH500. This also sounded great but I think the efficiency was an issue because I was clipping the powerstage before I managed to do so on the GK so that is now going out of the door.

I have another couple of cabs (Berg AE 2x12 and a Berg IP310). Obviously this is total overkill and I bought the AE 2nd hand on a whim, knowing that I will be able to shift it easily if I still prefer the IP. The IP does it for me in a way that nothing else has but the schlep factor is pretty intense and I am toying with the idea of getting a 2nd ACME. I would then need to go for 2 8ohm ones as none of the micro heads do the 2ohm thing, or I could pick up an EA iAmp 800. The thrill of the chase :)

For the record, I could happily live with a flatwound as well. I do not need the upper extension. It sounds nice up there, just not a range I use. I guessed this would be the case, but I was importing it to the UK and did not want to kick myself by finding that I was missing it. Andy has told me how to take it out of the picture so I will be doing that soon.
Click to expand...

Cool! After playing my Streamliner900 and F500 through my 4ohm FullRange for a while, I realized that the distortion I was hearing at high volumes in the low end was not the FullRange, but rather the F500 (similar to your experience with the Aguilar).

The Streamliner900 just opens up this cab wonderfully. Interestingly, it has the same ICE module as the little Aguilar, but the power amp limiting, compression, etc. of the Genz is a thing of wonder, allowing that module to put out quite a bit more power when pushed. Really nice!

I would love to have an 8ohm Flatwound/FullRange stack to use with that head. That would be the best '215' cab ever!
 
#92
KJung said:
Cool! After playing my Streamliner900 and F500 through my 4ohm FullRange for a while, I realized that the distortion I was hearing at high volumes in the low end was not the FullRange, but rather the F500 (similar to your experience with the Aguilar).

The Streamliner900 just opens up this cab wonderfully. Interestingly, it has the same ICE module as the little Aguilar, but the power amp limiting, compression, etc. of the Genz is a thing of wonder, allowing that module to put out quite a bit more power when pushed. Really nice!

I would love to have an 8ohm Flatwound/FullRange stack to use with that head. That would be the best '215' cab ever!
Click to expand...

<sigh> another amp to try. I must admit I am looking forward to the GK MB800 as an option
 
#93
Peredur said:
<sigh> another amp to try. I must admit I am looking forward to the GK MB800 as an option
Click to expand...

That MB800 should kill with your soon to be 'FlatWound'. To my ear, the GK micro's have a big, powerful low end (good for the Acme's), and a very bright and very upper treble extended baked in tone that sounds great with a one way cab (i.e., really pushes to top of the driver response). That voicing would be a bit much for me with the FullRange, and the active treble control doesn't really do what I would need it to do to tame that top end with the GK.

All nice stuff. The F500 sounds GREAT with the FullRange, but it will run out of headroom before the cab will.
 
#94
Peredur said:
Just to add the Full Range user experience. I have one (4ohm) and am very happy indeed with it. I have tried it out with 3 different heads.

Demeter HBP1->Yamaha P5000. Lovely lovely lovely. Heavy. The rack was about twice the weight of the cab, but was all I had at that moment and had to leave for a gig.

GK MB Fusion. This seems to be a happy match. I like the noise it makes. I cannot usefully describe the sound in detail because it is just not something I am good at. I am just happy with the easy open voicing all the way down to bottom B. It really gets on my nerves hitting something below E and hearing the cab go "sorry" rather than "roar!"

Aguilar TH500. This also sounded great but I think the efficiency was an issue because I was clipping the powerstage before I managed to do so on the GK so that is now going out of the door.

I have another couple of cabs (Berg AE 2x12 and a Berg IP310). Obviously this is total overkill and I bought the AE 2nd hand on a whim, knowing that I will be able to shift it easily if I still prefer the IP. The IP does it for me in a way that nothing else has but the schlep factor is pretty intense and I am toying with the idea of getting a 2nd ACME. I would then need to go for 2 8ohm ones as none of the micro heads do the 2ohm thing, or I could pick up an EA iAmp 800. The thrill of the chase :)

For the record, I could happily live with a flatwound as well. I do not need the upper extension. It sounds nice up there, just not a range I use. I guessed this would be the case, but I was importing it to the UK and did not want to kick myself by finding that I was missing it. Andy has told me how to take it out of the picture so I will be doing that soon.
Click to expand...

The EA iAmp-Pro is fairly small & light and does 2ohm.
With either of the iAmps you'd probably have to dial back the low end a bit as the Fullrange + iAmp would probably sound seriously W-I-D-E.
 
#95
KJung said:
Cool! After playing my Streamliner900 and F500 through my 4ohm FullRange for a while, I realized that the distortion I was hearing at high volumes in the low end was not the FullRange, but rather the F500 (similar to your experience with the Aguilar).

The Streamliner900 just opens up this cab wonderfully. Interestingly, it has the same ICE module as the little Aguilar, but the power amp limiting, compression, etc. of the Genz is a thing of wonder, allowing that module to put out quite a bit more power when pushed. Really nice!

I would love to have an 8ohm Flatwound/FullRange stack to use with that head. That would be the best '215' cab ever!
Click to expand...

Great sound clip with the GB and the Acme ! It sounds like one of the better setups you've posted. Thanks.
 
#97
Did a gig with 5 string DB->Full Circle->Fdek->GK MB Fusion->Acme tonight. The really open bottom end complements the DB so well. It just delivers the heft so effortlessly. I had to put some high pass filtering on due to the room, not because the cab could not handle it, but it is really comforting to be using a small light cab that will just bring the LF to the party in an effortless way and know that it is operating easily within it's limits. Running things on the edge of their limits always makes me edgy. Not tonight :)
 
#98
KJung said:
Very easy carry... definitely a 'one hander' over relatively short distances. And, the handle is nice and flat, so the micro heads sit flat right on top, just like on the Thunderchild.

Not much of a review yet, but I wanted to put some pictures up and start the ball rolling. I'm very impressed so far. I dig the look of the cab also. Like the Thunderchild, definitely a 'unique' execution compared to the typical 112 cab.

The thing I'm most impressed with so far is the very present and even midrange of this cab. MUCH punchier to my ear than the original B series. I never relt that little 5" mid driver could quite keep up with those super duty 10's in those cabs. This box is very articulate, and has a very organic, warm, paper cone tone, all the way up through the tweeter range. A bit 'sweeter' all around than the Thunderchild, which I guess makes sense, since more sound is coming from that woofer.
Click to expand...
That's real interesting, because at least for me, having owned 5 or so Low B2 cabs running them in various configurations in tandem and alone, in addition to a Low B4, the reason I eventually went away from the Acmes and have been running the Schroeder most every gig is because of the LACK of the mid punch and the ability to cut through effectively without getting the "turn the damn bass down" looks from my bandmates. I always loved the open low extension of the Acmes, maybe moreso when I played more country and liked to spend a note or two every few songs on the B string, but playing mostly classic rock now almost exclusively, I find the 4 bangers to be all I need, ergo, less need for that Acme rumble. I often run an electric upright through the Schroeder as well, and for that application, the Schroeder is a little too modern sounding for the EUB, so less than ideal for me. Thanks for this thread.
 
#99
mrpackerguy said:
That's real interesting, because at least for me, having owned 5 or so Low B2 cabs running them in various configurations in tandem and alone, in addition to a Low B4, the reason I eventually went away from the Acmes and have been running the Schroeder most every gig is because of the LACK of the mid punch and the ability to cut through effectively without getting the "turn the damn bass down" looks from my bandmates. I always loved the open low extension of the Acmes, maybe moreso when I played more country and liked to spend a note or two every few songs on the B string, but playing mostly classic rock now almost exclusively, I find the 4 bangers to be all I need, ergo, less need for that Acme rumble. I often run an electric upright through the Schroeder as well, and for that application, the Schroeder is a little too modern sounding for the EUB, so less than ideal for me. Thanks for this thread.
Click to expand...

Acme to Shcroeder is about the biggest jump you can make from 'deep' to 'mid punchy'! I hear what you are saying, and I also moved away from my B210's a number of years ago for similar reasons.

These 12's seem a bit different up top and in the mids. However, micro amplification has gotten SO much better since my B210 days that I might not have been feeding the Acme's enough 'real' power (I was primarily using a Walter Woods at the time) to open them up.

That all being said, I will be getting the FullRange on a relatively loud gig a week from Saturday (my gigs this weekend are in very large rooms, but I have a moderate sized room next Saturday) and I will be able to see if this cab approaches the max volume of the Thunderchild in a mix. Not sure if it will.

It sounds REALLY good with enough power though, and does seem more punchy than the original Acme's, with more bite up top.
 

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