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Acme Full Range Series III 112

#61
lookiel said:
Listening again to the appropriate sections on your vid it's clear you can get the Acme to sound almost identical to the TC but never quite close enough the other way around.
Interesting stuff,
Damn you Ken for getting my GAS going;)
Click to expand...

:D Sorry:p

On a more serious note, concerning RPSANDS comment about max db, I do get a sense that the Thunderchild, within its range, will get a bit louder on the gig prior to compressing/farting than the Acme. Just like with the B210 series, if I REALLY get on the low B string, I can get that Acme driver to start farting a bit (of course, you can roll back the deep bass a bit to reduce this). That is almost impossible (at least with the F500) to do with the Thunderchild. Of course, by the time you hit that with the Acme (and it only happens WAY low down on the B string), you are much louder than virtually any production 12, so not a huge deal. But, based just on the 'pure volume versus box size' criteria, the Thunderchild seems to have the edge.
 
#62
Ken,
Thanks for this thread. The clip was great, except now I'm presently in a fEARful/TC/FR quandary. Might we get a quickie clip with the Pbass and, he asked greedily, something (J or P) with the Streamliner?

Also, and slightly OT, what would you say is the difference between using the VLE and just using a passive tone control on a bass? I use an F500, but mainly use the PTC on my Fenders and Sadowsky and don't find much difference.
Thanks,
Al

PS: I've enjoyed your previous TC clips but I really liked what I heard from the FR. And it would seem to be a bit more versatile in so far as being able to be EQ'ed to sound like the TC. Then again, there's the sensitivity question.
 
#63
ahc said:
Ken,
Thanks for this thread. The clip was great, except now I'm presently in a fEARful/TC/FR quandary. Might we get a quickie clip with the Pbass and, he asked greedily, something (J or P) with the Streamliner?

Also, and slightly OT, what would you say is the difference between using the VLE and just using a passive tone control on a bass? I use an F500, but mainly use the PTC on my Fenders and Sadowsky and don't find much difference.
Thanks,
Al

PS: I've enjoyed your previous TC clips but I really liked what I heard from the FR. And it would seem to be a bit more versatile in so far as being able to be EQ'ed to sound like the TC. Then again, there's the sensitivity question.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

While the VLE and a passive tone control are, I'm sure, mechanically different, just like you, to my ears, they do the same thing.... rolling off high frequencies, and removing lower and lower frequencies as you turn them up. Both will get you to a similar place IMO and IME.

I'm glad to do a PBass clip with the Streamliner. I'm on the road playing this weekend, but will do that Monday when I get back. The P sounds killer through the FR with the F500 with the VLE at around 10 o'clock to remove the sizzle.

Look for something Monday afternoon.
 
#65
ahc said:
Thanks. I'll keep my ears peeled. And Good Drummers to you, sir!
Al
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Thanks!

I forgot that my PBass is heading to points West for some road gigs next week, so I got a quick little clip finished tonight. Man, the Streamliner just kills with this cab. The Acme really speaks with the big low end of the Streamliner, and the tubey top end of the Streamliner really comes through nicely.

My Nordy VP5 has brand new Dunlop Nickel Rounds, given a heavy gigging schedule with it for the next few weeks.

Anyway, with the J Bass and the Thunderchild, it is the F500 all the way. But man, the Streamliner really makes the Acme open up, especially with the P!

Acme 'FullRange' Series III and Genz Benz Streamliner 900 - YouTube
 
#68
Ken,
Thanks for the friendly, courteous service! Sounds excellent. :) Am I right that you're using a Zoom Q3 for your clips? I'm amazed how well it records bass.

MysticMichael,
Would that I could!

And for both of you... or anyone using one, can one of these three little monsters credibly do small to medium rooms with no FOH? I'm generally playing with 3 - 5 piece bands that are not stupid loud. PA for vocals and maybe bass drum and a splash of guitar(s). I am currently using a MB CMD102P or an MB F500 and either one or two Acme 8 ohm B2 - 2x10's. I'd like to do a "one lightweight cab" solution, and I'm wondering whether one of these will do the job or if I'll need something like a 15/6 or TC115 instead. There's probably going to be a Streamliner 900 in my future too.
Al
 
#69
A kind of +1 for the question above from ahc. I also play in a not too loud band, usually with either an LM2 or F1 pushing an Epi 410UL. In smaller venues, I often think I could go with a smaller cab. From your clips it seems like the Acme sounds closer than the Thunderchild to what I am used to and like, but with its low sensitivity would the 4 ohm version likely be enough on its own? FWIW, I mostly play 4 strings, so the low B response is not too much of an issue for me. Thanks.
 
#70
ahc said:
Ken,
Thanks for the friendly, courteous service! Sounds excellent. :) Am I right that you're using a Zoom Q3 for your clips? I'm amazed how well it records bass.

MysticMichael,
Would that I could!

And for both of you... or anyone using one, can one of these three little monsters credibly do small to medium rooms with no FOH? I'm generally playing with 3 - 5 piece bands that are not stupid loud. PA for vocals and maybe bass drum and a splash of guitar(s). I am currently using a MB CMD102P or an MB F500 and either one or two Acme 8 ohm B2 - 2x10's. I'd like to do a "one lightweight cab" solution, and I'm wondering whether one of these will do the job or if I'll need something like a 15/6 or TC115 instead. There's probably going to be a Streamliner 900 in my future too.
Al
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^
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ajn said:
A kind of +1 for the question above from ahc. I also play in a not too loud band, usually with either an LM2 or F1 pushing an Epi 410UL. In smaller venues, I often think I could go with a smaller cab. From your clips it seems like the Acme sounds closer than the Thunderchild to what I am used to and like, but with its low sensitivity would the 4 ohm version likely be enough on its own? FWIW, I mostly play 4 strings, so the low B response is not too much of an issue for me. Thanks.
Click to expand...


I think this is unanswerable.
...but, you will come closer to what you need with either a ThunderChild 115 or a fEarful 15/6.

The fEarfuls are too wide (sonicly) for my taste, so I would prefer the ThC115.

A pair of the new Neo Acme's would probably get you there as well, but that would defeat your desire for easy portability.
 
#71
lo-freq said:
^
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I think this is unanswerable.
...but, you will come closer to what you need with either a ThunderChild 115 or a fEarful 15/6.

The fEarfuls are too wide (sonicly) for my taste, so I would prefer the ThC115.

A pair of the new Neo Acme's would probably get you there as well, but that would defeat your desire for easy portability.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess I'm hoping it's possible to defy the laws of physics. My Epi 410 does everything I want, is easy to move around, light as a feather and is deep and loud. I'd just like to find something that is physically smaller (and hopefully lighter still) for those tiny stages and small clubs where the 4x10 is too much. I had a pair of Aggie GS112s, but one was never quite enough live, and two took up way more room and weight than the Epi.

Unless I misread something in Ken's comments, I had the impression that he finds both the Acme and ThC112 will actually get as loud or louder (and deeper) than a 2x10. So I was hoping one of these might actually be my "one small box" solution, since by the time I move up to something like a 15/6 I haven't really saved all that much space.
 
#73
ajn said:
Yeah, I guess I'm hoping it's possible to defy the laws of physics. My Epi 410 does everything I want, is easy to move around, light as a feather and is deep and loud. I'd just like to find something that is physically smaller (and hopefully lighter still) for those tiny stages and small clubs where the 4x10 is too much. I had a pair of Aggie GS112s, but one was never quite enough live, and two took up way more room and weight than the Epi.

Unless I misread something in Ken's comments, I had the impression that he finds both the Acme and ThC112 will actually get as loud or louder (and deeper) than a 2x10. So I was hoping one of these might actually be my "one small box" solution, since by the time I move up to something like a 15/6 I haven't really saved all that much space.
Click to expand...

Once you're talking about no PA support, it becomes really difficult to say what is going to cover anyone's volume needs. I was just saying which cabs I thought would come closer to doing that.
 
#74
ahc said:
And for both of you... or anyone using one, can one of these three little monsters credibly do small to medium rooms with no FOH? I'm generally playing with 3 - 5 piece bands that are not stupid loud. PA for vocals and maybe bass drum and a splash of guitar(s). I am currently using a MB CMD102P or an MB F500 and either one or two Acme 8 ohm B2 - 2x10's. I'd like to do a "one lightweight cab" solution, and I'm wondering whether one of these will do the job or if I'll need something like a 15/6 or TC115 instead. There's probably going to be a Streamliner 900 in my future too.
Al
Click to expand...

Every month my blues band plays a club that includes two bars and a dining room (and a mic feed to the patio). When it's full, there are probably 125-150 people. I play through one Acme Flatwound (8-ohm) and a G-K MB500 (350 watts@8ohms), with no PA support. I never turn the MB500 master volume past noon and have plenty of volume to spare. I honestly think my MB200 could handle the gig, but I leave it at our rehearsal space for convenience.

I did an A/B comparison of a Flatwound and an Acme Low B-2 last year. The Flatwound and the FullRange are less efficient than the Thunderschild and many other cabs, as Andy's specs show; but compared to the Low B-2, I thought the Flatwound sounded noticeably louder. I assume that is due to the Flatwound's more "open and wide sound"--as KJung has described--from the broader frequency range of the driver, and because the Flatwound IS slightly more efficient.

I've posted previously about how good I think the G-K MB series sounds with the Acme Flatwound/FullRange. Though I'll probably buy an MB800 when it's finally released, the MB500 has never seemed inadequate when powering two Flatwounds or a Flatwound and a FullRange. Anyone else tried this combination yet?
 
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#75
ajn said:
...[so] I was hoping one of these might actually be my "one small box" solution, since by the time I move up to something like a 15/6 I haven't really saved all that much space.
Click to expand...

When I stroll into the gig with one, lightweight Flatwound cab, my PBass case and my MB500 bag over my shoulder, my bandmates are bright green with envy. They're still in disbelief, however, about all the sound I can produce. The Flatwound and the FullRange have been great one-box solutions for me.

Our monthly club gig has no real stage, so we have to slide a couple of tables closer together and crowd into one end of one of the bars. To conserve space, I set my Flatwound back against a wall (clearly getting a coupling effect) and then I sit on it, to leave more room in front of me for our singer. I'm 6'3" and push 300 lbs, so I'm no small load. The Flatwound is rock solid. Andy has stopped by a few times to hear us and always laughs that I'm Acme's best advertisement for his stress-built cabinet design!
 
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#76
Bluesy Soul said:
When I stroll into the gig with one, lightweight Flatwound cab, my PBass case and my MB500 bag over my shoulder, my bandmates are bright green with envy. They're still in disbelief, however, about all the sound I can produce. The Flatwound and the FullRange have been great one-box solutions for me.

Our monthly club gig has no real stage, so we have to slide a couple of tables closer together and crowd into one end of one of the bars. To conserve space, I set my Flatwound back against a wall (clearly getting a coupling effect) and then I sit on it, to leave more room in front of me for our singer.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bluesy Soul, this is exactly the kind of situation I'm talking about. Since you have both the Flatwound and the FullRange, how would you describe the difference in their sound? And if you only could have one of them, which one would you pick?
 
#77
Bluesy Soul said:
I've posted previously about how good I think the G-K MB series sounds with the Acme Flatwound/FullRange. Though I'll probably buy an MB800 when it's finally released, the MB500 has never seemed inadequate when powering two Flatwounds or a Flatwound and a FullRange. Anyone else tried this combination yet?
Click to expand...

Yes, the MB Fusion sounds really good with the Flatwound (but so does the F500).

Do note that BGM now officially has a production-spec MB800 in our hands (Chef's hands, at the moment), so they do exist and should be shipping soon. :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:
 
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#78
ahc said:
Ken,
Thanks for the friendly, courteous service! Sounds excellent. :) Am I right that you're using a Zoom Q3 for your clips? I'm amazed how well it records bass.

MysticMichael,
Would that I could!

And for both of you... or anyone using one, can one of these three little monsters credibly do small to medium rooms with no FOH? I'm generally playing with 3 - 5 piece bands that are not stupid loud. PA for vocals and maybe bass drum and a splash of guitar(s). I am currently using a MB CMD102P or an MB F500 and either one or two Acme 8 ohm B2 - 2x10's. I'd like to do a "one lightweight cab" solution, and I'm wondering whether one of these will do the job or if I'll need something like a 15/6 or TC115 instead. There's probably going to be a Streamliner 900 in my future too.
Al
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm back from a road gig. I'm kind of kicking myself, since I was sure I was going to need a large cab at my gig (a big industrial loft space in the warehouse district of St. Louis), but the band was very well behaved. It would have been a good trial for the FullRange. Rats!

Yes, the Q3... quite amazing!

Regarding your question, I think the 112 in 4ohm would give you a noticable increase in volume and punch versus one 8ohm B210, but in no way would replace two of them, much less the Epi401UL. However, of all these 'super 12's, you are correct that the FullRange is the closest to the Epi voicing of that big low end, and that nice sparkle and extension of the upper treble kind of floating over the driver. As long as you don't do a lot of slapping or aggressive digging in (which tends to drive any small cab to compression), a 4ohm FullRange (or Flatwound if you are going more old school up top) should handle a moderate volume band in a moderate sized room quite well.

I've done some stupid loud and large gigs with my Thunderchild, and it never gave up the ghost. Of course, it didn't rattle the walls either, but it worked fine.
 
#80
ajn said:
Thanks Ken. Your response helped a lot. I'm not a slapper and not really "aggressive" so I think it will probably work fine when the 410UL is much more than I need. I think I just might give Acme a call for one of the FullRanges. I can always take the sizzle out with the VLE if I need to, but it's there when I want it.
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I think you will dig it. There is definitely a price to pay in absolute max volume giving that huge low end extension, but it gets quite loud (especially for its size). My 8ohm Bergantino AE210 handles my low B better on my the huge sounding Sadowsky Vintage at higher volumes (i.e., it can get quite a bit louder without any farting out versus the FullRange), but, of course, it does that while reproducing virtually none of the fundamental below about the G on the E string, much less on the lower notes of the B string.

So, costs and benefits... no free lunch. If you love an extremely full range tone, and don't play in a stupid loud context, this cab is the bomb. Two would handle anything I believe.
 
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