Acoustic 402 cabinet

[jj4001]

Hi everybody,

OK, so I finally received my 402 cabinet today and it sounds terrible with my Acoustic 140 amp. Let me explain.

First of all, I've been playing the 140 through an Ampeg 8x10, and it sounds incredible. I've also tried it through my friend's SWR 8x8 cab and it sounds beautiful through that, too. You have to turn it up way louder than necessary before it starts to get too distorted, so I don't think there's anything wrong with the amplifier. Through the 402, however, it sounds awful. It distorts in a very unmusical way with the volume pots turned up to about where the hour hand on a clock would read 9:30. In other words, it starts sounding bad just as it starts to get loud enough to keep up with a drummer.

The 402 itself, cosmetically, is in very good shape. (I must say I'm very impressed with how solidly this cab is built after looking inside.) However, it came with two 8 ohm Peavey Black Widow speakers in it. Are these speakers the problem? They seem to be in perfect shape and the cab actually sounds really good with a friend's Gallien-Krueger 1001RB, but awful with both ACC amps I've tried through it, the 140 and a 220, both of which are rated at 125 watts @ 4 Ohms.

One more detail - I'm running a Rickenbacker bass stereo into the 140. Does this make any difference?

According to zzounds.com, the 15" Black Widows are rated at 1400 W Peak, 700 W Program, 350 W Continuous. Though they sound fine matched with a modern amp, are these speakers just a bad match for the older Acoustic amps?

It's quite perplexing. The vintage cab sounds great with modern amps, but terrible with the vintage amps it was made for while the vintage amps sound great through modern cabs but terrible paired with the cab that was designed for them. What could be going on here?

 

[Wheezer61]

Hi jj-

I've been using a 402 cabinet with a 150 which is almost the same as a 140 head except one channel has reverb & tremolo. The original speakers for that cabinet were eminence. At gigging volume (about 4) that sound is round and full. I'm using a jazz copy with flatwounds. Can't fiugre why your 140 isn't a good match except that you cold try changing the speakers. The acoustic cabs are very efficient and will deliver a full rumbling tone.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

What could be going on here?

One scenario is that the sensitivity of the 2x15 may be too low, so you're clipping that small amp trying to get enough volume. You don't have that problem with the 8x cabs because they have higher sensitivity.
The other possibility is that it's loaded with guitar BWs.

 

[lug]

I've used my 402 with both an Acoustic 220 and an ampeg pre-power amp set up and it's always sounded great to me. Maybe a bit more "modern" and a little less bottom than the bigger 2X15 acoustic cabs. I have no idea what the Peavey speakers would do to the sound but matching the speaker to the cab is usually the most important thing in getting the cab's sound. I'd look at the recommended cab size and porting for the Peavey's and see how close the Acoustic cab is.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

Most of the time, an ACC amp will sound better through an ACC cab than
through anything else.
I think BFM has the answer.
You might also want to ask on the unofficial Acoustic forum.

 

[will33]

What specific model of black widow? They're not all the same. KADT's have very little excursion. You say it sounds good with other amps, what about other basses? Stereo bass into mono amp, maybe some weird phase problem or something plugged in the wrong spot?

 

[TomB]

I played a 140 (actually the head from a 136 but essenetially the same) into a 402 cab for 20 years. The original speakers (in the '70's) were Altec 421's. They sounded fine, though the 402 was always a little bass-shy compared to the 406 & other Acoustic products. I eventually added a 10-band MXR EQ pedal to the rig to fatten it up, and that worked out fine. I've no experience w/other speakers in that box, but I honestly don't think it could compete w/an 8X10 in any respect regardless of driver chosen. Towards the end of our journey together I used the 136 head through a variety of other boxes and I then realized the 402 was a limiting factor. ...sorry.

 

[ZiggyDude]

I have one with the white cone speakers. I also use the larger 406Wide. I was surprised how well the 402 projects to larger rooms.

 

[jj4001]

Wasn't expecting a reply to this 4 year old thread at this point. Well, after 4 years, the 402 has ended up performing spectacularly on hundreds of gigs. It's easily the best music gear purchase I've ever made. I think that original problem was that the cab was delivered to me in the dead of winter and the cold may have temporarily stifled those Black Widows. Speaking of, they were great speakers, but I eventually replaced them with the white dust capped Eminence drivers that belong in there. I was able to score a mint pair along the way.

At the moment, I have a ton of Acoustic Control Corp. gear and I love all of it. I've got a complete 371, a 320/408, a 118 combo for low volume gigs/home practice, a 230 head, and of course this 402. With all these amps and cabs, my go to for gigs is the 320 head and the 402 cab. It's really tough to find a better rig than that in my humble opinion.

 

[jj4001]

I have one with the white cone speakers. I also use the larger 406Wide. I was surprised how well the 402 projects to larger rooms.

Me too. I occasionally gig with a group that has an insanely loud guitar player. Both my 320 and 370 struggle to keep up with his volume when I use his Ampeg SVT 8x10. Those amps have no trouble whatsoever keeping up with his volume through the comparatively tiny 402 cab. Never would've expected that but it's true.

 

[ZiggyDude]

Curious - how did the white cone speakers compare to the black widows? Very curious actually.

I normally put a 370 on top of mine - but will admit that the 320 has some interesting tone abilities by blending the channels. I set one for crispy and not a lot of lows and the other as a rumble. Then blending the two gives a full sound. BUt somehow - the 370 just makes my day.

I am jealous of your 408. That is about the one piece I don't have.

 

[jj4001]

Ziggy, I swapped the speakers out at least two and a half years ago so my memory is a little hazy. I can say that I wasn't expecting the Eminence and the Black Widows to sound almost identical, but I think they pretty much did. It was nothing like when I got a CV 187 for my 301 to replace the crappy 18" a previous owner had put in there. Now THAT was night and day. I'm pretty sure the BW's can handle more power but that's never been an issue for me. My regular band is more concerned with tone than loudness, fortunately. I've read a lot about how the Eminence drivers Acoustic used aren't any good, but to me, I don't come across many cabs that sound better than they do. What do I know? I thought the Black Widows sounded great too. ;-)

As for the 320, yeah, the blendable channels are sweet. I used to run a Rickenbacker in stereo into the two channels and set them like how you did. Killer sound, especially with some dirt on the bridge pickup! Soundmen and DI boxes made me give up on it. It got frustrating always having to explain why I needed to have my cab mic'ed because a single DI wouldn't work for me. Soudguys always treat you like a crazy person if you're a bassist doing anything slightly different. Lately, I'm just playing a P-bass into one channel. Kinda tough to argue with how good that sounds. Channel B is for when I let other bands use my amp so they can do whatever they want with it and not mess up my settings. I use the 320 over the 370 mostly because it matches the styling of the 402 cab perfectly. If I had a 106 cab, The 370 would be my go to. I just like matching gear. I gotta say the 370 is the only amp I've ever used that sounds pretty much perfect with all the knobs and sliders set to zero. Love it.

It pains me to say I barely ever use the 408. It's seen 3 gigs and one recording session since I've had it. But wow it sounds so good. It has the original speakers, two of which I had to recone since they were blown when I got it. Still, totally worth it. It was very nice to have a cab like that when my band opened for The Replacements at the Fillmore in Detroit this past May. The 408 really performed great in that setting. I keep the 408 and 371 in hopes that we'll work our way up to gigs closer to that level more often. In the meantime, the 402 is perfect for the bars and clubs we usually play. It's got great tone and has no trouble carrying the house when necessary.

 

[billgoodwin]

370 / 106

 

[ZiggyDude]

Very similar. The porting is different. Be interesting to hear them side by side.

 

[ElmRealmRider]

I have one with the white cone speakers. I also use the larger 406Wide. I was surprised how well the 402 projects to larger rooms.

ZiggyDude how would you compare the 406 and 402? I own a 406 wide with eminence speakers ( theyre not white caps, but period correct, i dont know if theyre original), i love the way it sounds with my 220 or 470 but id like a 402 because its smaller. Do you know the dimensions of the 402?

 

[ZiggyDude]

I don't have the dimensions in front of me - can try later - but they should be on the Acoustic site.

The 402 is much smaller - and lighter. The 402 is just as wide as the 406W (the width of the X20 heads) but not as deep and the porting is different. The 406 is also taller and looks much more imposing I have different speakers in the cabs right now. The 406 is using 400 watt clones of a JBL 2225. The 402 has the stock white caps. So I have not had a real chance to A/B the cabs sonically. I have always wanted to as I have a spare set of the clones and just have not had time to swap them out. As of this time I take the 402 for jobs I need less power.

 

[Gaolee]

It pains me to say I barely ever use the 408. It's seen 3 gigs and one recording session since I've had it. But wow it sounds so good.

That's why mine went to somebody else who will use it. I let the whole 320/408 stack go. It had a footswitch, covers for everything, and was not pristine but very presentable. It had all original speaker cones in good shape, too. But, if it just sits around and is the practice amp from hell, there's not much point in it. The original 360 is now the practice amp from hell. Sanity and logic has to stop somewhere.

 

[ZiggyDude]

Ooh. Wish I had a shot at that!