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Acoustic bass suggestions?
- Thread starter Buster53
- Start date
I’ll take a crack at responding, although it’s likely an effort in futility ….
Yes, they are bigger/more unwieldy/more fragile than, say, a Fender or StingRay. They are also much lighter and the fragility causes one to be even more careful as to where the bass sits when not being played. Unwieldy is far too impacted by personal viewpoint to be objective.
Yes, they do need amplification when playing with others, no different than EB’s or DB’s. When playing at home alone, or with 1 other person, good ABG’s can be and are audible, dependent upon playing style … lighter touches will result in less volume, high tension flat wounds will result in less volume, etc.
I experienced a significant cardiac event in 2019 that resulted in my not being able to play at all. Over time, my recovery has been such that I can now comfortably play light, 4 string basses with only slight limitations (DBs, ERBs are not manageable). I had a choice between an ABG or a lightweight 4 string EB. I don’t regret the choice and, if anything, wish I had made it years earlier. (lifetime full-time professional musician, retired in 2017 from heavy travel gigging schedules)
There is no EB (and associated electronic wizardry) that even remotely captures a DB sound for me, regardless of the endless “roll off the highs, put on flats, buy a P and play near the fretboard” discussions. Acoustic qualities are acoustic qualities, regardless of physical size. I get closer to the sound I provided for more than 50 years as a double bassist with an ABG. I cannot capture that with any EB, regardless of the electronics involved.
I’ve lived for years with negativity from EB players while playing DBs and ERBs, and I fully understand why some players prefer 4 string basses only. As I’ve become more acquainted with ABGs it has been somewhat disheartening to witness continued close-mindedness (not directed at you, Gothic, you at least engage from an intelligent standpoint) towards the ABG community.
D
Deleted member 165050
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I'm actually very interested in that aspect, seeing as I never could test it. I tend (and consciously struggle to) play with a lighter touch because, apparently, myelopathy never 100% leaves you (...). If amplified, does the same apply? I mean, do you have to play an acoustic with a heavier touch or perhaps a pick to get the full benefits of their unique tone?
And speaking of tone...
Could you please post an example of that? I've watched a lot of videos with acoustic basses and could never really understand the uniqueness. I mean, sure, I hear some kind of difference but I can't really "feel" it, if you know what I mean.
And to add to that, do you really think an acoustic can blend in well in any kind of music? Say, could you get away with an acoustic playing heavy rock music?
Many thanks!
Just IMO only, light vs heavy touch has minimal impact on tonal quality. Compared to metal guys, I have the touch of a 1 year old girl, but after a lifetime of playing DB I’d venture my touch is heavier than many. Playing style/tone achievement is always impacted by touch to a degree, but not so much so that it would change your amplified sound. The acoustic nature of a hollow chamber provides much of an ABG’s unique quality.
Tracks & Clips
This is a link to a section on my website. Go to the bottom of that page and the last 4 tracks are live recordings with a fretless Breedlove Solo Jumbo outfitted with a soundhole plug, played through a Radial BassBone into a 15” powered PA speaker.
I have zero experience in heavy rock music … I’m an old school jazz guy and completely unqualified to answer your last question …
Well that fretless sounds very dreamy indeed and it'd scratch the fretless itch too but I can't afford a Breedlove right now. I do kinda get it, though, although it does seem to me that it tends to sound a lot more than a "DB lite" than an electric. It certainly sounds great for the tracks you used it on but I doubt I can make myself heard over loud guitars on one.
Still, a worthy consideration nonetheless.
Thank you!
Let's unpack this.
On TB are lots of folks. Different groups listen to certain types of music apparently to the exclusion of other kinds of music. They say things like, "the SVT is the most used bass amp in music or seen on concert stages."
Some of the ABG players want one thing. The ability to pick up an acoustic and play it at a whim just like their guitar buddies. No more no less.
How many electric guitarists want their acoustic to do electric duty?
A pro acoustic guitarist will tell you that getting that acoustic sound out of that box, loud and accurate through FOH is not easy, not necessarily cheap and requires some sound system knowledge and understanding experienced engineers. If your pickup system is cheap don't expect much. If your bass was $1000 don't expect $1000 preamp and piezo. (See Rick Turner old BP article) Most of the sound is coming from an under saddle piezo. It's placement and buffering deliver poor or excellent sound. It's not necessarily what the guitar sounds like. The great sound you hear on recordings is with great mics. Live some of these pros have an additional mic in front of the guitar or inside of the guitar. I bypassed the Taylor OEM electronics and put two K&K upright pickups under the plate beneath the top. I hung the old end jack inside and the K&K took it's place. Wow it sounds like a wood acoustic bass guitar.
If you want it for it's own tone, bless you. My bias. They sound like nothing else. They bring a different take to your practice and playing. They expose your technique. You can't go cheap. More on this later.
Technique. So many refuse to adapt their technique to the instrument. They want to play like it's a solid body. This is why so many grouse about bronze wound strings. Go see an acoustic steel string guitarist or a classical guitarist live. Do you hear all kinds of squeek and clank? Could the issue be user error? Can you play bronze wounds and sound like they are flat wounds? You can. With an ABG the responsibility for tone is all on you. That translates to very nuanced playing when you get back to your EB. You let those notes swell and bloom. You learn how chords work acoustically. You affect tone with your fretting fingers too.
Price. Purpose. They go together. You want one for campfires at the beach. I've been at those where our backs are freezing and the fire is making yellow glass in the pit. Not where an acoustic instrument would be happy. You spend $5-$600 for an ABG are you going to want inebriated Janice stepping in it? Camping. By the fire then next morning temp has dropped to 38 degrees and there is dew on everything. Not a place an acoustic instrument would be happy. So you buy a cheap one for the fun. Oh. Sounds like a shoe box. No volume no projection and no tone. Cheap bronze wounds.
Sometimes the thinking is like this. Cute, I don't need it, let me try it, feels terrible, those strings, it's only $200., I don't like playing it, it's not loud enough my guitarist drowned me out and sounds terrible plugged in and feeds back. Okay. ABGs suck.
Purpose. For your home, studio and settings with considerate musicians. Attendees are going to be respectful of your instrument and theirs. You spend in the $1K+ range. They aren't going to play over you because they are musicians. You won't be banging away on it and it's tone will be appreciated by you and your mates. This instrument will sound good and play well. It may also be beautiful. You're not at a frat party where drunk Rick wants to try Flea licks to impress his date during Eagles' covers. This bass will respond to your technique. It will respond to different string choices.
When you get in the $2K+ range you get bespoke. Your bass is considered. It is designed to do certain things well. They can really sound amazing. Some as mentioned in another post are better solo instruments others better in a group. When you play the $500+ for a while you may find that you get what $1K+ brings you.
Strings are amazing for crafting your ABG experience. Bronze wounds from D'Addario, DR, Martin are some I've sampled. They sound completely different from each other. Really distinct. Tapewounds are great for that upright sound but greatly reduce acoustic volume. I was after the sound acoustically and kept them on my Taylor for a couple of years. The Martins can sound very dry and harsh on pine topped ABGs. They sound great on Martins though. Go figure. I put a set on the Taylor and causing that oily Imbuia wood to move, diminishes all of that brashness and it sounds like a piano. The D'Addarios sound quite musical. The DRs are even more so. Play like it's flats walking jump blues or baritone classical sound or chordal singer songwriter stuff. Look ma, no tone knobs.
On TB are lots of folks. Different groups listen to certain types of music apparently to the exclusion of other kinds of music. They say things like, "the SVT is the most used bass amp in music or seen on concert stages."
Some of the ABG players want one thing. The ability to pick up an acoustic and play it at a whim just like their guitar buddies. No more no less.
How many electric guitarists want their acoustic to do electric duty?
A pro acoustic guitarist will tell you that getting that acoustic sound out of that box, loud and accurate through FOH is not easy, not necessarily cheap and requires some sound system knowledge and understanding experienced engineers. If your pickup system is cheap don't expect much. If your bass was $1000 don't expect $1000 preamp and piezo. (See Rick Turner old BP article) Most of the sound is coming from an under saddle piezo. It's placement and buffering deliver poor or excellent sound. It's not necessarily what the guitar sounds like. The great sound you hear on recordings is with great mics. Live some of these pros have an additional mic in front of the guitar or inside of the guitar. I bypassed the Taylor OEM electronics and put two K&K upright pickups under the plate beneath the top. I hung the old end jack inside and the K&K took it's place. Wow it sounds like a wood acoustic bass guitar.
If you want it for it's own tone, bless you. My bias. They sound like nothing else. They bring a different take to your practice and playing. They expose your technique. You can't go cheap. More on this later.
Technique. So many refuse to adapt their technique to the instrument. They want to play like it's a solid body. This is why so many grouse about bronze wound strings. Go see an acoustic steel string guitarist or a classical guitarist live. Do you hear all kinds of squeek and clank? Could the issue be user error? Can you play bronze wounds and sound like they are flat wounds? You can. With an ABG the responsibility for tone is all on you. That translates to very nuanced playing when you get back to your EB. You let those notes swell and bloom. You learn how chords work acoustically. You affect tone with your fretting fingers too.
Price. Purpose. They go together. You want one for campfires at the beach. I've been at those where our backs are freezing and the fire is making yellow glass in the pit. Not where an acoustic instrument would be happy. You spend $5-$600 for an ABG are you going to want inebriated Janice stepping in it? Camping. By the fire then next morning temp has dropped to 38 degrees and there is dew on everything. Not a place an acoustic instrument would be happy. So you buy a cheap one for the fun. Oh. Sounds like a shoe box. No volume no projection and no tone. Cheap bronze wounds.
Sometimes the thinking is like this. Cute, I don't need it, let me try it, feels terrible, those strings, it's only $200., I don't like playing it, it's not loud enough my guitarist drowned me out and sounds terrible plugged in and feeds back. Okay. ABGs suck.
Purpose. For your home, studio and settings with considerate musicians. Attendees are going to be respectful of your instrument and theirs. You spend in the $1K+ range. They aren't going to play over you because they are musicians. You won't be banging away on it and it's tone will be appreciated by you and your mates. This instrument will sound good and play well. It may also be beautiful. You're not at a frat party where drunk Rick wants to try Flea licks to impress his date during Eagles' covers. This bass will respond to your technique. It will respond to different string choices.
When you get in the $2K+ range you get bespoke. Your bass is considered. It is designed to do certain things well. They can really sound amazing. Some as mentioned in another post are better solo instruments others better in a group. When you play the $500+ for a while you may find that you get what $1K+ brings you.
Strings are amazing for crafting your ABG experience. Bronze wounds from D'Addario, DR, Martin are some I've sampled. They sound completely different from each other. Really distinct. Tapewounds are great for that upright sound but greatly reduce acoustic volume. I was after the sound acoustically and kept them on my Taylor for a couple of years. The Martins can sound very dry and harsh on pine topped ABGs. They sound great on Martins though. Go figure. I put a set on the Taylor and causing that oily Imbuia wood to move, diminishes all of that brashness and it sounds like a piano. The D'Addarios sound quite musical. The DRs are even more so. Play like it's flats walking jump blues or baritone classical sound or chordal singer songwriter stuff. Look ma, no tone knobs.
Yes, a video I made awhile back.
Planet Waves sound-hole plug. Feedback if I take the bass off and lean it against something, but that's about it.
Yes, I play with the mute.
Gothic, I feel the unique tone they offer is in small campfire situations, etc.
Even in a concert they offer more, such as a slow, melodic tender love ballad.
In my experience, they are too boomy, not articulate enough for rock, and the louder, the more feedback.
If You dont see yourself doing that type of thing, maybe stay with solid body.
Over the years, Ive been known to buy instruments I never would consider, then find a use for.
Some of them, I wish I still had.
You meant what you said, and I understood it that way. And my reply to you was directed accordingly.
Now I will address some of your valid questions. My answers are mine, i.e. they only refer to my personal situation.
I do not find my ABG the slightest bit unwieldy. Do the millions of humans who play acoustic guitars find them "unwieldy"?
Usually yes.
To me it's nothing about the tone. It's the simple fact that I can start playing bass without having to fire up an amp. An amp that may even bother the people around me, especially in the middle of the night.
All this brings up an old question that seems to be still unanswered: why don't ABGs have their own place here on TB?
My favourite example is the Effects Forum. That place was haunted by naysayers for years, for there are many bassists who won't have anything to do with effect pedals, and some of those never stopped bugging every thread there, making a healthy discussion about any pedal impossible.
So the Effects Forum is now blessed with an extra strict anti-naysayer policy. Don't ABGs need something similar?
My favourite example is the Effects Forum. That place was haunted by naysayers for years, for there are many bassists who won't have anything to do with effect pedals, and some of those never stopped bugging every thread there, making a healthy discussion about any pedal impossible.
So the Effects Forum is now blessed with an extra strict anti-naysayer policy. Don't ABGs need something similar?
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,222
- 45,001
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
PERSONAL OPINION ALERT (not "Voice of TB Staff", see also "thinking out loud" alert):
My initial thought is that there's a few strikes against the idea.
The main one is that I see new ABG-related threads posted perhaps a few times a month, whereas multiple effects-related threads get posted daily. Even the dedicated ABG club thread can go many days without a single post.
The other is , "If ABG's need a forum, what about ...?" Should 5 string basses have their own forum? 6? Should "more than 6" be a forum or need there be multiples? Basses with courses of strings?
OTOH, there are specific "no trolling" rules beyond the Effects forum - the "no ugly bass comments" rule for one.
It might (or might not) be hard to come up with a reasonable "no trolling" rule for ABG's - the fact that they are "generally not loud enough to play unamplified with a group of musicians" is a true and reasonable thing to say, but it sure gets tiresome to read a dozen times in a thread. OTOH, the repetition goes with the fact that it's many people's experience... But "ABG's suck" seems pretty unambiguously trollish.
Last edited:
Mod Alert:
Be respectful, no trolling, etc.
Another thing I try to keep in mind is that I don't have to participate in threads just to hear myself talk. I can have an opinion on all sorts of things, but having an opinion is not the same as being informed or experienced. Sometimes that witty quip or extended treatise is best kept in my head. If I don't have anything relevant to the OP's question or continuing discussion, or if my participation is going to get me or others riled up, maybe I should sit it out. I know, it's hard. Sometimes other people on the internet are wrong!
YMMV, of course.
Carry on, or not.
Be respectful, no trolling, etc.
Another thing I try to keep in mind is that I don't have to participate in threads just to hear myself talk. I can have an opinion on all sorts of things, but having an opinion is not the same as being informed or experienced. Sometimes that witty quip or extended treatise is best kept in my head. If I don't have anything relevant to the OP's question or continuing discussion, or if my participation is going to get me or others riled up, maybe I should sit it out. I know, it's hard. Sometimes other people on the internet are wrong!
YMMV, of course.
Carry on, or not.
We already have this
Acoustic bass fetish club Part 2
Where generally like minded people gather and converse and the naysayers can simply stay away.
Acoustic bass fetish club Part 2
Where generally like minded people gather and converse and the naysayers can simply stay away.
Thanks for chiming in.
I agree with most of what you say, but I feel you are missing the point regarding the true nature of ABG naysaying.
What gets tiresome is not "generally not loud enough to play unamplified with a group of musicians". What gets tiresome is "therefore they are useless". That's the angle that, for me, sours discussions about an instrument I enjoy playing.
Just my feeling. Any thoughts?
