Double Bass Acoustic Image Contra 310

[drurb]

Okay, new question:

Does anyone have a problem with the Contra SIII bottoming out on a low E? On a past gig, I had both the input volume and master volume at 12:00. As we're playing, I just lit into an open E and the cab or amp couldn't handle it. I don't know what the story is. It seems like the amp is way overpowered for the cab. I realize it's for clarity and tone, but I was only running at 50% power. In my experience of playing in a hall with a big band, I'm not so certain I was cutting through either.

Thanks,
Pat

Were you using a piezo pickup? If so, which one? Did you have the high-pass filter engaged? What you describe can result from the transduction of dreaded infrasonics. If you do a search on this forum on infrasonics and my user name, you'll find out more than you may want to know.

 

[mje]

Okay, new question:

Does anyone have a problem with the Contra SIII bottoming out on a low E?

When you say "bottoming out", do you mean distorting, or running out of power, or what? The AI amps do distort in a nasty way if you run the preamp too high. And I've noticed that accidentally leaving the low-pass filter on can severely restrict the low end!

 

[Pat Harris]

See, what it sounds like to me is the preamp running out of headroom on the low E. I know the instructions advise to set the Master to 12:00 and then control overall volume with the Input level, but I think I'm going to try it the other way around today. Thanks for all of the insight everybody.

-Pat

 

[tornadobass]

With my Clarus series 3 and Wizzy, setting both gain and master to noon puts out a pretty high volume. Is your pickup low output or are you playing really loud? Or maybe too much sound energy is being wasted in the deep low end?

 

[MT Spaces]

Okay, new question:

Does anyone have a problem with the Contra SIII bottoming out on a low E? On a past gig, I had both the input volume and master volume at 12:00. As we're playing, I just lit into an open E and the cab or amp couldn't handle it. I don't know what the story is ...

Pat, for what it's worth, I have a Series III Coda (2-channel version of the amp you have) and a Solo Rev II pickup. I have had to experiment a bit to get what I like. I have found that, with the input and master volumes both at high noon, I need to run the bass eq dial at about 9:00 to 10:00 and it seems like I need the HP filter engaged at 11:00 to high noon. (BTW, I run the mid at about noon and almost have the treble completely down at 7:00 to 8:00.) If I run the bass eq at noon and the HP filter minimally at 30 to 40, the low E will splat like a big old bug on the windshield . You can definitely get some volume out of the Contra .... you just need to figure it out for your bass, pickup, and set-up. Or, of course, you could add a Wizzy to really blow the doors off .

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Pat, for what it's worth, I have a Series III Coda (2-channel version of the amp you have) and a Solo Rev II pickup. I have had to experiment a bit to get what I like. I have found that, with the input and master volumes both at high noon, I need to run the bass eq dial at about 9:00 to 10:00 and it seems like I need the HP filter engaged at 11:00 to high noon. (BTW, I run the mid at about noon and almost have the treble completely down at 7:00 to 8:00.) If I run the bass eq at noon and the HP filter minimally at 30 to 40, the low E will splat like a big old bug on the windshield . You can definitely get some volume out of the Contra .... you just need to figure it out for your bass, pickup, and set-up. Or, of course, you could add a Wizzy to really blow the doors off .

I think the bass and pickup are what makes all the difference. I keep everything pretty much flat (12:00) with my setup using a AMT S25B and a Fishman Full Circle mixed into my Series III Coda. The only time I use the filters is if the room requires it which for me has been very seldom. I can get more than loud enough with this setup.

 

[Pat Harris]

Yes, I think it just really takes some tweaking to find how all the parts interact with each other. I'm running a full circle direct into the Contra. I've been tweaking and have some nice results. I also decided to try my Fishman EQ/DI basically for the use of the compressor and with a pinch of compression it cleans things up nicely. Although, I hope to find a way to ditch the compression factor after some more experimentation. Thanks again for all the suggestions everyone.

Peace,
Pat

 

[wingnut]

Hi loebass, just my two cents worth. Almost everytime I've experienced a lack of volume it was first, the cord and second, the pick up. Try playing through another amp, borrowed or just test drive one at a music store. If you get the same problem you know it's your pick up. If not and you use a new cord, then it's your amp...(bummer).

 

[bolo]

Pat, just adding a little more of the same here.

Turn on the HP filter to make the occasional big note a bit more tame...I've noticed that even at the lowest frequency setting (30hz?), that the speaker cone doesn't move as much with either my BugBass or American Standard with RSII pickup.

+1

Were you using a piezo pickup? If so, which one? Did you have the high-pass filter engaged? What you describe can result from the transduction of dreaded infrasonics. If you do a search on this forum on infrasonics and my user name, you'll find out more than you may want to know.

... maybe too much sound energy is being wasted in the deep low end?

I too have observed the cone dance phenomenon using a RS II pickup and my Wizzy cabs. And I hear the rumble with my Series I Contra. Like both my pals indicated, the high pass filter will clean that up.

I will say using the HPF takes a little getting used too. Like Uncletoad said once, sometimes I like that big bottom (he used another word) in my sound. But after watching what it does to the speaker cone, I am trying to get used to doing without it. (I think that is actually one of the reasons I like my Wizzy combo so much. It has no high pass, and there is a real nice sense of depth in its sound to my ears - but it is probably not so great for the speaker in the long run.)

 

[bolo]

... If I run the bass eq at noon and the HP filter minimally at 30 to 40, the low E will splat like a big old bug on the windshield

Thata way Bobby K.

Or like a trombone player tryin' to hit those low Bb pedals. Pitty the fool and his durn spit valve.

 

[wingnut]

Isn't it funny how the cheapest component in an equation is usually the problem? Gotta love them cords!!!

 

[wingnut]

I'm glad it was the cheapest solution. You should try out the fishman platinum EQ (great tip from MEMBLUZ in Winnipeg)!
Keep Bottoming Out Dude!

 

[drurb]

I will say using the HPF takes a little getting used too. Like Uncletoad said once, sometimes I like that big bottom (he used another word) in my sound. But after watching what it does to the speaker cone, I am trying to get used to doing without it. (I think that is actually one of the reasons I like my Wizzy combo so much. It has no high pass, and there is a real nice sense of depth in its sound to my ears - but it is probably not so great for the speaker in the long run.)

Given a properly designed HPF, you should be able to have your cake and eat it too! That is, the HPF should be able to essentially rid you of all unwanted infrasonics (that actually, do not contribute, but detract, from that solid low end) while leaving you with all the low end you could ever want.

 

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

... If I run the bass eq at noon and the HP filter minimally at 30 to 40, the low E will splat like a big old bug on the windshield ...

Thata way Bobby K.

Or like a trombone player tryin' to hit those low Bb pedals. Pitty the fool and his durn spit valve.

Pilfering Papa Toad's Terminology .... Time For .... Progris Riport .....

After reading my post above, our pal Tornado Dan was kind enough to send me a private e-mail suggesting that my Rev Solo may be a little too tight and that my settings on the Coda were probably giving the amp a "workout". I had been wondering if something was amiss after reading that Bob Branstetter runs everything flat and no filters. Last weekend I gingerly hit the pup with 150 grit paper a few times then tested, repeating several times. Now I've got everything close to being flat settings but I still like (and think I need) to use the HP filter at the 30 to 40 setting. Thanks guys for helping me out and sharing your good info. No more Big Old Low E Bug Splats on the windshield . Everything is starting to sound real good now.

 

[tornadobass]

Glad that helped to adjust the pickup fit. With the Wizzy, I think running HP filter where you do makes sense to keep the cone more stable.

Last gig, though, things got muddy and I switched over to notch all the way down to take advantage of phase reverse. That cleaned things up considerably. Not much else to do when stuck sitting right on the amp.

 

[bolo]

Given a properly designed HPF, you should be able to have your cake and eat it too! That is, the HPF should be able to essentially rid you of all unwanted infrasonics (that actually, do not contribute, but detract, from that solid low end) while leaving you with all the low end you could ever want.

Understood Doc. I still get plenty of low end w/ the HPF engaged. It's not really the fundamental pitch that seems to get "filtered", since I have the frequency set at 30 Hz. But toggling back and forth between filter on and filter off, there is a subtle variance. It just sounds ... um ... filtered or slightly altered ... as you would expect w/ the HP engaged.

I think the "effect" that I find pleasing sometimes is kinda like an initial "thump" on the pizz attack. Kinda like a really tastefully done kick drum hit that's in perfect sync w/ my playing on every note. I know that is not exactly a "natural" sound for DB, but as I said it is subtle, and at times I like that little extra (slightly percussive) low-end punch, or "a$&" (as Uncletoad would say). That's the best way I can explain it I guess.

But I DO NOT like what it does to my drivers. Holy mackerel!

 

[tornadobass]

I've also noticed a slight difference between having the Clarus HP on or off...with it off, there's a slight bit more midrange clarity, which may be the edge of the note that Bolo has mentioned.

I got stumped about what to do at last night's gig. We were in an art gallery for that silent auction. All hard surfaces and a hardwood floor over a basement. Jam packed with chatty sorority girls in little black dresses. My amp was set pretty loud, with the mids and highs bumped, but the bass just got swallowed in the crowd. Meanwhile, the guitar player next to me was coming through loud and clear with a little Fender Champ amp...arg!

Maybe the key was to thin out the sound with the HP to get through it all?

 

[bolo]

I've also noticed a slight difference between having the Clarus HP on or off...with it off, there's a slight bit more midrange clarity, which may be the edge of the note that Bolo has mentioned.

Yup. I notice what I perceive to be a very slight difference in the mids and upper register too. Just a little more string bloom or "boing" and leading edge transients perhaps on the attacks that seem to come through with the HP off, and a little glossier high end w/ a little more "open" sound. I know the filter is not supposed to work that way, in theory. Maybe I am imagining it.

Jam packed with chatty sorority girls in little black dresses.

Pardon me while I imagine that too.

 

[stefaniw80401]

Some TB'ers give up on the Realist -> AI Coda/Contra without really figuring it out. After years of just plug and play and settling for my sound, I knuckled down for a few days with my AI coda on the wood floor dining room -- determined to really get the most out of this amp (and the money I spent). I pulled out the AI manual, and discovered how the brite and treble controls differ. The mid eq is in the "wrong" place for the Realist, so I figured -- why not use the notch filter instead?

Here's what I came up with, and it is killer for me.

1) Plug realist directly into hi-gain instrument channel (no preamps)
2) Push in the Z button (cuts some bass)
3) Tilt it back (smooths out bass response)
4) If on a wood floor, put a small bathroom rug under the AI (helps with boominess)
5) Low = 9 o'clock (cuts more bass, allows for more volume).
6) Mid = NOON (not very useful with Realist)
7) Treble = NOON (doesn't do much anyways)
8) Brite = 3 o'clock (wow -- great for attack)
9) Notch filter around 3 o'clock (carve out the Realist ugliness)
10) input level NOON - 3 o'clock
11) master NOON - 3 o'clock

Plenty loud and articulate.

The notch is intended to control feedback, but I'm using it to carve out the ugliness of the Realist.

At first, for years actually, I couldn't figure out how to use the notch filter until I mapped out the freq range of the notch knob by using my tone generator (took a couple of hours). The control is not linear, and the notch is very narrow and the control knob is very sensitive.

The Realist honk is between 300hz-500hz. That's about 1-2mm either side of 3 o'clock on the notch control knob. Carefully listen to the subtle differences as you nudge the notch knob a fuzz one way or the other. You can carve out the worst offending middy honkiness, but not all of it. It would be nice to be able to control the width and depth of the notch. Really -- a parametric EQ is what I want.

To get more control of the Realist, try the Invalid Link Removed.

- Mark