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Active pickups + effects = fail? But why?

mmbongo

mmbongo

I have too many basses.
Inactive
Aug 5, 2009
25,372
30,975
54
Upstate, South Carolina
#1
edit: just for the record...I just noticed the title I gave this thread and I wish I would have said 'dirt' or 'overdrive' instead of 'effects', as I have no problem with anything else. Just certain dirt pedals. Crap!



I guess I'm not exactly sure how to ask what I'm trying to ask here, but basically...what exactly is it about active pickups that makes them not mesh well with some effects? And when I say active pickups I mean actual active pickups like EMG.

I guess let me back up and provide some info. I have three main basses:
Warwick Streamer w/Delano pickups, Audere pre.
Lakland 5501 w/Bart Pickps, Audere pre.
Spector NS-5 w/EMG MMTW, Aguilar pre.

With any kind of dirt, my Spector just sounds flat and buzzy, while the other two sound phenomenal. Lots of character and I can really 'feel' what the dirt pedals are doing. I get lots of touch with those basses though dirt..dig in and I get nice grunt. Play lightly, and I get a nice grit. Bypassing the pre makes no difference, sounds great active or passive on both basses. My Spector with the active EMG pickup just sounds fizzy and buzzy no matter what. It almost sounds like digital vs. analog.

But why? Does an active pickup put out a different type of signal? Is it the 25k volume pot?

The end result is that I'm contemplating replacing the EMG in my Spector with a Bart or Delano, but I hesitate because running it clean, NO bass sounds as good as my Spector. It's pre magic. I don't know if that is the EMG or the bass itself.


Option B..maybe it's just the effects I'm using? Take the Catalinbread SFT..LOVE LOVE LOVE it with my Lakland or Warwick. Spector? Not so much.
 
#3
I had these problems aswell, but then i decided to put a comp in front of my chain, to tame the output of my basses and let the pedals have more headroom, et voila... Suddenly everything makes sense. :D
 
#4
Not sure of the exact technical reason for this, but as I love the sound of my 3 custom Adamovic Basses (all with 35TW pickups and 18v Aguilar preamps), all my pedal choices have been selected for sounding great with them.

We know overdrive is such a personal thing so, my particular top choices for low (sometimes towards mid) gain are as follows:
Aguilar Tonehammer
Aguilar Agro
Xotic BB

These are the top 3 that I have owned and used for long periods of time. Have tried and been tempted by a LOT more but these are the ones I can rely on with actives. Also, all of them sound fantastic with Passives.
On a side note, my new Aguilar TH500 amp has given me the 'exact' drive I've been looking for which was a surprise bonus. Just need to make sure I can always replicate that with my pedalboard for when stuck with using house rigs.

For a more aggressive tone for cutting through the mix, most TB'ers are worshipping the B3K which I really wanted to love but hear fizzy overtones that don't work for me (totally respect Darkglass though! :) )

Don't know if this is helpful at all but your Spector should roar with any on these! :)

Cheers,

Andy
 
#6
I have a Opto Stomp with the pad switch I can use with my 18v BTB. It does help but with some effects I still have to turn my volume knob (on my bass) down a little bit. My 9v ATK doesn't have any problems. I do however use my passive P-Bass the vast majority of the time so my pedals are set up for that...
 
#7
meursault42 said:
Good suggestion.
Click to expand...

I don't use a compressor, but I use an EQ pedal at the front to lower the signal level because many of my pedals would actually clip due to the high output. It fixes the clipping issue, but doesn't make a difference in the sound. It still sounds digital/buzzy, just not as loud :)

I tried a compressor at the front, but it neutered my delay, octave, and envelope filter.
 
#10
Waterpilot said:
I use a compressor but it's just slight compression and doesn't effect my octave or delay very much if at all. I wonder if you were running too much compression when you tried it...
Click to expand...

Nah, I have an EBS Multicomp and tried all levels. Like I said, it didn't change the actual sound, just smoothed it out. To me, the only place to put a compressor is at the end of the chain. You don't want your dirt, octave, delay, or anything to get a compressed signal. To me that's like going from a 2" water line into a 4" water line...what's the point? That negates the advantage of having a larger line.

It's not an issue of high output level, but I think Pollinator nailed it in the first reply..high output impedance. My other basses have the same level of output, but the pickups are passive (with an active pre).
 
#12
So if the issue IS the high output impedance of an active pickup, is there some sort of 'impedance convertor' box to try? Or should I just bite the bullet and try a passive pickup? All I would have to do is replace the 25k volume pot with a 500k, Aguilar pre's are flexible like that!
 
#15
#16
mmbongo said:
So if the issue IS the high output impedance of an active pickup, is there some sort of 'impedance convertor' box to try? Or should I just bite the bullet and try a passive pickup? All I would have to do is replace the 25k volume pot with a 500k, Aguilar pre's are flexible like that!
Click to expand...

I think I posted this before:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

It's only like 5 components, and it converts the signal to be more like a passive pickup (you can use it after a buffered effect too).
I don't know about anycommercial products that do this... maybe a reamp box like a Radial does the same?
 
#18
I was fortunate to get one of these before Barge went awol:
Link Removed (GLZ-1)

It helps with active electronics, but probably not 100%. Still, it made a lot of fuzzes and pedals sensitive to low impedance work a lot better!

The first pedal in my chain is the GLZ-1. It not only gives me impedance control, but also allows me to "normailize" the volumes of my various basses (everything from an active Fender 5 w/ Aguilar pre to old passive 60's pickups in my Yamaha hollowbody).
 
#19
I'd say it would be the character of the EMGs themselves. You've got a pre in the other basses, so they're all probably sending out low-z signal. The difference is that the EMGs have the pre inside the pickups.

Also, EMGs are wound for lower output since the pre inside boosts it up, which results in a different frequency response. IIRC underwound means more high-frequency content. I think that would explain their sound with effects.
 
#20
Hold up, hang on! An active pickup has low output impedance, not high. A passive pickup with an active preamp also has low output impedance.

Only if your passive pickups have no preamp (just vol/tone pots) does the bass have high output impedance.

Generally speaking, impedance is a problem in two common cases:
1) Active bass into vintage-style fuzz. Harsh, buzzy, spitty sound. Some people have had success by inserting a small circuit that raises the active bass's output impedance.
2) Passive bass into rack gear. Dull, dark, muddy sound. This requires the addition of a preamp.

It's possible there could be other cases, but they're not common, not a known "fail". Nearly every other problem with active or passive basses and effects has to do with the levels, not the impedance. Don't get me wrong, I am not denying anybody's description of what they heard--just saying what is common and known.
 

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