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All Tube Eden Heads "ideas"

jaibeau

jaibeau

Backinblack.info
Supporting Member
Nov 12, 2006
2,224
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DALLAS
www.backinblack.info
Disclosures
Endorsing Artist:Ernie Ball / mike lull
#1
So I'm completely baffled at the ghost town on my thread trying to sell a new WTB300V all tube Eden head. The one that looks like a classic. It's brand new for 2011 (demo'd at our namm performance) and bought one when i got home for a session...easily as good as a SVT-CL. But not even an offer. It's even new in box. Anyone know something I don't? Any Edenophiles that have some info? I'm just like wow at this point- thx
 
#2
Ampeg has iconic status. Some people think there are other tube heads worthy of recognition. I think first time out their tube head was made by Koch. This one is a home design. It probably is well executed, but since it is not an Ampeg you will hear crickets for quite some time. I personally own a Mesa 400 plus and prefer it to an SVT. Confessing such is an invitation to be flamed.
 
#5
DaZombieWoof said:
Ampeg has iconic status. Some people think there are other tube heads worthy of recognition. I think first time out their tube head was made by Koch. This one is a home design. It probably is well executed, but since it is not an Ampeg you will hear crickets for quite some time. I personally own a Mesa 400 plus and prefer it to an SVT. Confessing such is an invitation to be flamed.
Click to expand...
No it's not. At least it's a tube amp ;)

So Jaibeau, you asked, so here goes...apologies if it's not what you want to hear. Never played the Eden so I have no idea of its quality, but it's made by a company named Smarvo and is slightly tweaked cosmetically and in the preamp for Eden. It's sold in other countries under the names Smarvo and Fame. Might be a really nice amp, but you can get a used SVT-CL for the price you want for your amp. As a matter of fact, it wasn't long ago that you could buy that Eden amp for $1000 new. It may be a nice amp, but it doesn't have the sales clout of an Ampeg or a Mesa.
 
#6
I think it's in part due to the track record, since Eden's first tube head was pretty much a rebranded Smarvo. After that blew over, prices went down very quickly, so people might be scared to get burnt again.

Also, the sound I've liked about Edens isn't really a tubey kind of sound. So, this gives us two scenarios, 1. it delivers the old Eden tone, or 2. it goes for a different kind of tone completely. In case 1, I feel it'd be a little moot to build a tube amp that gives the tone of a hybrid. In case 2, it defeats the point of buying an Eden until this tone catches on (not saying it won't, but maybe hasn't caught on yet).

I'd like to acknowledge that Edens have a pretty distinctive tone and they've made some great hybrid products (I'm not a fan, but I've been tempted to buy them a few times).

*Flame suit up*
 
#7
JimmyM said:
No it's not. At least it's a tube amp ;)

So Jaibeau, you asked, so here goes...apologies if it's not what you want to hear. Never played the Eden so I have no idea of its quality, but it's made by a company named Smarvo and is slightly tweaked cosmetically and in the preamp for Eden. It's sold in other countries under the names Smarvo and Fame. Might be a really nice amp, but you can get a used SVT-CL for the price you want for your amp. As a matter of fact, it wasn't long ago that you could buy that Eden amp for $1000 new. It may be a nice amp, but it doesn't have the sales clout of an Ampeg or a Mesa.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure i remember these being on ebay and never selling for blowout prices at like $600 or something.
 
#8
What I wonder about is quality of components in it. I wonder about transformers and so on. A used SVT head has the advantage of being serviceable by a broad range of techs and being much more of a known and oft recorded tone spectrum. A good friend owns an early double cab SVT with the tubes that preceded 6550s. I think they were 6146's or something like that. While the SVT is not quite the product of OCD maniacs Boogie can be, anyone who has ever tried to pick up one would realize that it did not appear to have skimped on transformers.
 
#9
The main problem is that hardly anything is selling at the moment, people are financially terrified. What might be considered a "fair" used price according to somebody who paid retail, is far from the price that people are willing to pay in reality at this time. "Fair" has no meaning in pricing right now.

Now, that said, this particular amp is further handicapped sales-wise. I apologize in advance that this may sound too mean, but it's the truth as far as I see it:

On the Eden forum, an Eden rep stated the only difference between the "new" version and the "old" one is cosmetics: Tolex instead of rat fur, and a light-up Eden logo. I'm not sure what brainiac at Eden thought the reason nobody bought the 300T was because it didn't have a light-up logo. :rolleyes: The two real reasons are: (1) David Nordschow was the foundation of Eden, and he had nothing to do with this amp; and (2) it's a rebranded Chinese generic item. Now, to be fair, David isn't the end of the line as far as amp design--just because David left (or was fired?) doesn't mean the new Eden managers couldn't have hired their own engineers to come up with a great amp. But they didn't, anyway. And again to be fair, just because something was made as a generic product and then cosmetically repackaged for the US market doesn't inherently mean it's not a great amp--it might very well be a terrific amp! But the stigma is there, and the Chinese rebranded item is a stark reminder of Eden fans' general disappointment in where Eden has gone in the last few years.
 
#10
bongomania said:
Nailed it! From Eden's C series onwards, there have been quality issues. (And I'm speaking from my own personal experience and a couple of thousand dollars invested.)

I wanted a more powerful amp than by WT550, and they couldn't provide one that was reliable, so I went to Aguilar.

Frankly, if I wanted an all tube amp, I don't think I'd even consider Eden. That said, I still love my 550B and the 800B's.
Click to expand...
 
#11
JimmyM said:
No it's not. At least it's a tube amp ;)

So Jaibeau, you asked, so here goes...apologies if it's not what you want to hear. Never played the Eden so I have no idea of its quality, but it's made by a company named Smarvo and is slightly tweaked cosmetically and in the preamp for Eden. It's sold in other countries under the names Smarvo and Fame. Might be a really nice amp, but you can get a used SVT-CL for the price you want for your amp. As a matter of fact, it wasn't long ago that you could buy that Eden amp for $1000 new. It may be a nice amp, but it doesn't have the sales clout of an Ampeg or a Mesa.
Click to expand...


+1


bongomania said:
The main problem is that hardly anything is selling at the moment, people are financially terrified. What might be considered a "fair" used price according to somebody who paid retail, is far from the price that people are willing to pay in reality at this time. "Fair" has no meaning in pricing right now.

Now, that said, this particular amp is further handicapped sales-wise. I apologize in advance that this may sound too mean, but it's the truth as far as I see it:

On the Eden forum, an Eden rep stated the only difference between the "new" version and the "old" one is cosmetics: Tolex instead of rat fur, and a light-up Eden logo. I'm not sure what brainiac at Eden thought the reason nobody bought the 300T was because it didn't have a light-up logo. :rolleyes: The two real reasons are: (1) David Nordschow was the foundation of Eden, and he had nothing to do with this amp; and (2) it's a rebranded Chinese generic item. Now, to be fair, David isn't the end of the line as far as amp design--just because David left (or was fired?) doesn't mean the new Eden managers couldn't have hired their own engineers to come up with a great amp. But they didn't, anyway. And again to be fair, just because something was made as a generic product and then cosmetically repackaged for the US market doesn't inherently mean it's not a great amp--it might very well be a terrific amp! But the stigma is there, and the Chinese rebranded item is a stark reminder of Eden fans' general disappointment in where Eden has gone in the last few years.
Click to expand...


And +1


Eden pretty much shot themselves in the foot when they got rid of Nordschow, moved production overseas while keeping prices sky high and letting both customer service and quality take a nosedive. I don't know that they'll recover back to where they were, at least not with the current business philosophy and leadership.

It's a cheap, re-branded, generic chinese amp and people know it. The tolex and lights are just "lipstick on a pig" and offering it up for a highend price just adds insult to injury.

Eden made some good stuff. It wasn't all that long ago I'd see WT800's and 410xlt's in backlines everywhere. That's what players wanted when they wanted "the best" at the time. It was the rig to have for a while there. They've all but disappeared. Those days are gone and they're not coming back unless Eden changes how they operate. You can't charge for the Eden name anymore. It doesn't have that value to most people.


May not sound very nice but that's the way it is.
 
#12
It's a shame, when I first started playing, Eden was considered one of the best, it's sad to see it like this. It's not too late for them to turn the tables around though, Ampeg has done it. To me, I hope DNA churns out some good product, but with the timing and all the competition out there, I doubt they could recreate the success that Eden had in its prime.

Hope Eden turns things around, but the whole Smarvo thing was like pulling a fast one on their trusting customers, and I didn't like that one bit, it does nothing but hurt the company's credibility.
 
#13
I've heard little, but negative, feedback on the amp itself...most were that it didn't have any character or balls to its tone. If you are getting vanilla tone from a tube head, you are doing something severely wrong lol. That was enough for me to put it outta my mind completely.
 
#14
It is a bit sad to see but such is business. Ampeg darn near did the same thing with the previous LOUD CEO and Vietnamese production but turned it around and are seeing success now. As much as I like GK, I'm getting a hint of that feeling towards them with all these ultra-budget MB combo's that people say rattle themselves apart in a few months. At least that stuff is advertised as budget gear though...not trying to be passed off as flagship stuff. It never ceases to amaze me how some of these business heads are the last to see this stuff happening when they should be the first. Either that or they just don't care. The "capitalize now then bail out before the ship sinks" type of attitude instead of going for quality and being in it for the long haul.

I swear there was a time there where I couldn't go anywhere or talk to any other bass player without a WT800 being somehow involved.
 
#15
I had the E300T (got it for under $600 all told) and liked it, but I sold it on pretty quick since I moved to Manhattan shortly after I got it and wouldn't have had any use for it there.

Nothing exceptional, but it was loud and got solid clean and mildly overdriven sounds.

Still love my WT400 though. Amazing amp.
 
#17
I think most people are on the money with their comments.

I would like to clarify that the reputation allegedly went down hill when Eden was purchased by U.S. Music. If you visit the Eden forum and read extensively, you'll see that many believe that the poor customer service and quality issues they had with U.S. Music actually improved when it was sold a second time to the current Chinese ownership. But that's like a double whammy because (a) most people don't know that (b) if they did know, they'd find it hard to believe that changing from U.S. ownership/manufacturing to Chinese made things better. That speaks volumes for U.S. Music's participation in Eden's history.

Other concerns: Eden has yet to restore its image, regardless of the quality of the product and when you're asking high dollar, image is everything. Also, most people don't equate Chinese workmanship with boutique-level manufacturing. You put all that together with a slow market and the fact that it's a niche brand competing against companies with solid reputations, and ask yourself how many people are potential customers?

That said, I love my WT405 from the David Eden era.
 
#18
I saw that amp when you posted it. You were asking too much for me to take a second look, especially relative to their purchase price. Not nearly a good enough deal for me. (I admit I'm a deal hunter.) I didn't even know about the rest of this stuff.
 
#19
Another issue is that "new for 2011" or not, it's already been discontinued, at least according to the Eden website- it shows under legacy products. This is another aspect of the business woes that have had former Eden fans on the run the last few years. When I checked earlier this year, there wasn't even any Eden distribution in Canada. How the mighty have fallen...

To be fair, in the current economic situation, only sure-fire winners seem to be selling, and even then, prices are severely depressed.

Assuming that the amp is working for you and you can afford to keep it, you might want to consider simply hanging on to it. This is a win-win: If the economy recovers, you may be able to get more for it in a year or two. If not, at least you've still got an amp that you like.
 

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