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Alternate fingers or raking does it really matter?

#21
Yeah jimmy, im definly going to try this... I have definely experienced a lack of "fluidity" doing fats runs ... i havent really consciously looking at my techique i know i do rake and alternate though.. but ive also only been playing finger style a few months...

But when i usually do to practice SA... its pentatonic runs.. 2 plucks per stringe,,, chromatic runs 4 plucks per string... after i get adept at this im gonna do string skipping and 3 plucks per string etc...

I think both have their place... but i want to play fast hadrien and janek runs... im pretty sure those are strictly alternated...
 
#22
cire113 said:
Yeah jimmy, im definly going to try this... I have definely experienced a lack of "fluidity" doing fats runs ... i havent really consciously looking at my techique i know i do rake and alternate though.. but ive also only been playing finger style a few months...

But when i usually do to practice SA... its pentatonic runs.. 2 plucks per stringe,,, chromatic runs 4 plucks per string... after i get adept at this im gonna do string skipping and 3 plucks per string etc...

I think both have their place... but i want to play fast hadrien and janek runs... im pretty sure those are strictly alternated...
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As far as I can see when I watch them play, they are. You get used to it the more you do it. It's like correcting a golf swing...you might have have a down period for a couple weeks but then you get better and you start swinging better than ever after that.
 
#23
I never really thought about it until reading this thread, but I rake a great deal and I find it to be far more fluid than strict alternation. Then again, it depends on your style. I rarely play straight quarter notes and my fingering has a healthy dose of hammer-ons, pull-offs and deadened notes. So if I'm playing 10 notes, I might only pluck 4 or 5 of them in a lick. For this syncopated, purcussive style, raking is not only more fluid for me, I find it to be far more interesting as well.

So, best to try several approaches and see which integrates best into whatever becomes your personal playing style.
 
#24
FretlessMainly said:
I never really thought about it until reading this thread, but I rake a great deal and I find it to be far more fluid than strict alternation. Then again, it depends on your style. I rarely play straight quarter notes and my fingering has a healthy dose of hammer-ons, pull-offs and deadened notes. So if I'm playing 10 notes, I might only pluck 4 or 5 of them in a lick. For this syncopated, purcussive style, raking is not only more fluid for me, I find it to be far more interesting as well.

So, best to try several approaches and see which integrates best into whatever becomes your personal playing style.
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Fair enough. The only question I'd ask you is how good you are at doing strict alternation.
 
#25
Funny thing is, I've always used two fingers and I suppose I just thought of myself as being an "alternating" type, but I never really studied what I was actually doing. I just played some runs and I'm starting to see something interesting. Let's confine this to extended runs either up or down.

Generally when playing a downward run, I'll finger the high note with my left pinky and if I do, I start the right hand alternation with my middle finger. If I start fingering the run with my left index finger, I instead start the alternating right hand with my right index finger. When I cross strings, I will generally rake with my right index finger (i.e., the last note on the G string is plucked with my index and raked to the next note on the D string). If, however, the last note on the higher string ends up being plucked by my right middle finger, I'll keep the alternate going and use my right index for the first note on the lower string.

This is really the first I've looked at this - I've been playing for over 30 years and can do seamless, fluid eighth notes at 1/4 = 200, so it just kind of works for me. Playing upright for almost 20 years may have something to do with how it evolved.
 
#27
Jimmy, i appreciate your feedback and help...

Heres my main concern though... to keep a long story short i shattered my right arm in 8 places in a terrible snow boarding accident 10 years ago.. (still have 2 plates and 45 screws in there)... I'm lucky to even have an arm!!!!...

But my goal it so use as much economy as possible...and it seems raking does expend less energy...

But after messing with SA all day today... i like it so much better but my arm gets tired way faster :(
I mean its possible to play fluid and fast using rake right?
hmmm..
 
#28
Man, that's a bad break!

I can assure you that you can play fast and fluid using some raking technique - I do it, as I mentioned above. It may require some long work to develop it to the level you want it to be, that's all.

I also highly recommend learning to hammer-on and pull off to not only take some of the burden off of your right hand, but to also add texture to your style. Sometimes I'll play for 10 minutes using almost exclusively my fingering hand. Occasionally a pluck here and there, and then use the string "momentum" to keep it going.
 
#29
Now I haven't busted my arm like that (sorry to hear about that), and obviously you'd probably have some deals with mobility, so you can be forgiven for finding workarounds ;)
 
#30
yeah its a shame cause i like SA better... but if im playing SA for 10 mins... i could get 15 out of raking or longer...

Speed wise i guess if i practice raking i could be just as fast i hope...

Honestly because of my injury i relay way more on Less notes and feel especially in Solo's....

1 note that is pure an touches your soul versus 1,000 notes that have no feel or purpose...


thanks guys
 
#31
cire113 said:
yeah its a shame cause i like SA better... but if im playing SA for 10 mins... i could get 15 out of raking or longer...

Speed wise i guess if i practice raking i could be just as fast i hope...

Honestly because of my injury i relay way more on Less notes and feel especially in Solo's....

1 note that is pure an touches your soul versus 1,000 notes that have no feel or purpose...
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Right on. A lot of folks have made a living playing like that.
 
#32
I think the difference matters, at least to me, probably not to anyone listening however. Raking, alternating, or free-stroke, are all great tools to have ready, they each have a subtly unique affect on tone, and feel. As Duke Nukem taught us, the more weapons you have at your disposal, the more fun it is to commit alien genocide.
 
#33
I worked extremely hard to vastly improve my right hand technique by focusing on making alternation a hab it. All I can say is that nothing in my almost 20 years as a bass player ever did more to improve my playing and I think you will be hard pressed to pressed to find anyone that really has this technique down that would recommend going back to raking. I was having trouble nailing the Chorus bassline to 'Do I Do' by Stevie Wonder, and the guy I was studying with at the time pointed out that I would likely never nail it unless the ability to alternate my index and middle finger became controlled and habitual. Well, he was right. There is a reason you posted this thread...something more you want to acheive with your right hand...and for the stuff you want to play, you can't yet conceive what a difference serious focus on this technique will make. Jimmy M, and the others on this thread who have can never go back to recommending raking...because they Do know the incredible difference first hand.
 
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#34
Raking has become second nature to me. It allows you to play much smoother and faster decending lines.

For ascending lines, you have no choice but to alternate, but since the natural motion of the fingers is plucking infront of the finger, moving to a higher (in pitch) string is more natural in that direction.
 
#35
SLaPiNFuNK said:
Raking has become second nature to me. It allows you to play much smoother and faster decending lines.

For ascending lines, you have no choice but to alternate, but since the natural motion of the fingers is plucking infront of the finger, moving to a higher (in pitch) string is more natural in that direction.
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Natural to me is not stopping the momentum built up by keeping my fingers strictly alternating. Honestly, and I know I'm about to get angry replies in return (but tough...that's the way I feel and I'm not going to lie so people don't get mad at me), most people only think raking is more natural and smooth because:

1. It feels more natural at first.

2. They haven't developed their strict alternating well enough to know the difference.
 
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#38
TBAR Shane said:
Do you guys have any suggestions for pieces, and methods to isolate instances of raking, to practice alternating?
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Anything that has you skipping to lower strings will work. I ran modes when I was first working on it, then I went to songs that have a lot of 16th notes in a row, like "BluBop" by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, "Odyssey" by the Dixie Dregs, "Teen Town" by Jaco, "Reach Out" by the Four Tops, etc. You can do it with pretty much any song as long as it has some string skipping going on. As far as isolating when you do it, that's on you to figure out for yourself by paying more attention to it.
 

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