Alternating fingers: Does it need to be perfect?

[MVE]

I am a self taught bass player that has been taking lessons and it has helped me immensely. Things like flying fingers have improve quite a bit. My main teacher is a professional rock musician who has not taught before. I decided to try out a person that was classically trained and 3 times the price. He pointed out something to me. Although I DO alternate my fingers, its isnt perfect. Sometimes I will use my index twice in a row. He says that needs to be fixed. My rock teacher has not mentioned anything.

What does everyone think? Does it affect the sound at all?

Op,
You asked a question that stimulated 6 pages of responses. Awesome!!!

There are so many things in music where those who can’t, often say, “...its not important.”

But now I think you owe it to everyone to spend an hour a night for the next two or three weeks working out perfect alternating fingers, and then report back to us on your findings.

I suggest you try this exercise:

 

[basspraiser]

I use my index finger more than I'd like to. I am not very good at alternating fingers. I wish I were much better. But my timing is off. I have better timing but just my index finger.

but listen to the trainef guy. He will teach you better skills. And you'll be better in the long run.

 

[BarfanyShart]

Generally speaking, strict alternation is preferable, and your technique will develop to be overall better (faster, cleaner, agile, rhythmic, etc.) if you practice doing it that way. That said, there are myriad exceptions to the rule of strict alternation like raking, certain string crosses, certain rhythmic patterns. The point is, it is usually the better practice to be a strict alternator, but you can choose to do a certain figure differently for a reason, it's just important that you know why you are choosing to forgo strict alternation.

 

[Pops OB]

Kind of like a pitching coach telling a pitcher he must wind up in a certain way or he won’t be a good pitcher.

 

[Frndmoretti]

I generally play with a pick, but when I play with my fingers I use the fingers as a way to keep rhythm. If it's constant, I alternate. If it's syncopated I might use the same finger two or three times.

 

[JimmyM]

Kind of like a pitching coach telling a pitcher he must wind up in a certain way or he won’t be a good pitcher.

Don't they do that?

 

[nnnnnn]

Sometimes a certain bassline is more comfortable to play if you don't strictly alternate index and middle, perhaps because of certain string crossing notes and rhythms. Maybe it just feels more natural to play a certain sequence starting with a particular finger, regardless of what came before. In those cases, it might still be quite possible to play the passage with strict alternating strokes, but less comfortable to do so, and if it's less comfortable it will tend to fatigue your hand more quickly, which will in turn limit your practice session or gig length.

So practice strict alternating exercises? Yes. Default to that for new material? Yes. Break the pattern when it makes a certain passage more comfortable? Also yes.

 

[Pops OB]

Don't they do that?

If they do, they are wrong.

 

[pbass2]

Sounds like your teacher and lotsa folks are over-thinking it.

That said, there's simply no way two different fingers will sound exactly the same striking the string. Just like with a pick upstroke vs. downstroke.
So, over time, with experience and finesse, one learns to straddle between getting the right sound (which can mean consistent tone note-to-note, but not necessarily always) with being able to physically pull it off. It's often a trade-off. And often one nobody except us bassists can detect.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Some Talkbass truths:

1. Jaco only needed four.
2. Jamerson only needed one.
3. If it sounds good, play it.
4. You learn the rules so you know when to break them.

If you can't find your answer in there, then you ain't ready for rock and roll.

I believe you may have forgotten to include a statement with regard to what "the best bass for metal" is, albeit it seems that this question has yet to be answered, even here on TalkBass ...

 

[Jaimelarumba]

It's not essential but it will certainly help. Here's the best lesson/excersise I found and it dramatically improved my playing.

 

[Hypercaffium]

The plucking hand, right?

Well, I don't agree with your teacher.

If the bass line allows it, I use one finger as much as possible, so that the sound is more even. When doing faster lines I alternate with two fingers, but sometimes repeat one or other, it depends.

This.
Accents is also a thing you must consider.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Maybe I'm the one that is doing it wrong, I don't know.

I just know that sometimes using only one finger makes the sound more even.

Classical electric bass? Or is he a double bass teacher and is teaching you on the electric? Just curious.

If one finger sounds more even than two, that can be fixed. Practice. Main word in that is "can". Obviously folks can do whatever they want.

Fortunately I came up with songs like "What Is Hip?" to fumble through and get my act together.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sounds like your teacher and lotsa folks are over-thinking it.

That said, there's simply no way two different fingers will sound exactly the same striking the string. Just like with a pick upstroke vs. downstroke.
So, over time, with experience and finesse, one learns to straddle between getting the right sound (which can mean consistent tone note-to-note, but not necessarily always) with being able to physically pull it off. It's often a trade-off. And often one nobody except us bassists can detect.

If that were true you'd be able to tell which of my fingers I'm plucking with at all times. Fortunately I've spent enough time that I'm positive that no one could. Including myself.


It starts with compensating for any differences between your fingers. Do that long enough and you won't even think about it, it becomes second nature.

 

[Bthebassplayer]

My teacher explained it this way after I asked him if it matters that I always start a riff or a bass part with my middle finger:

yes it matters he said. You should be able to play alternating all the time. He gave a nice example. He said:” When you step of your barstool with one leg first, you’re not consciously thinking about which leg to put on the ground first”.

to me that says it all!!! It has to be so unconscious ingrained that you should never have to think about anymore. Just like walking(bass)......

 

[el murdoque]

IME, classical techniques are taught as a series of coherent 'building blocks' that eventually equip the player with the faculty to accomodate just about any musical demands without adaptation. A flaw introduced early on and left unchecked (or not fixed in good time) will hinder the player later as the demands of the music grow. Such flaws might not become apparent until they prevent the learning of more advanced techniques that depend on the earlier learning. This might be several years hence, so will require significant 'unlearning'. The alternative is the workaround, but then what happens when you encounter the next advanced technique? Now you have the original flaw and the workaround getting in the way.
YMMV

This.


Also: What does the main (rock) teacher say towards that topic? Maybe he's got it on his list as well, but wants to do other things first.

 

[twinjet]

I am a self taught bass player that has been taking lessons and it has helped me immensely. Things like flying fingers have improve quite a bit. My main teacher is a professional rock musician who has not taught before. I decided to try out a person that was classically trained and 3 times the price. He pointed out something to me. Although I DO alternate my fingers, its isnt perfect. Sometimes I will use my index twice in a row. He says that needs to be fixed. My rock teacher has not mentioned anything.

What does everyone think? Does it affect the sound at all?

I personally will practice even plucking with several fingers, especially since I've started on a recent Rocco kick with the 16ths groove.

Alternating fingers is not required. To paraphrase a common TB adage, "Jamerson only needed one!"

 

[paulears]

Jerry Scheff. J. Jamerson, Sir Paul (also uses pick) and others use only the index finger. Brian Wilson used thumb.

Develop the plucking style that's best for yourself.

Brian Wilson did use his thumb, but as a consequence couldn't play live much of what Carol played in the recordings. However, as the bass player in a Beach Boy tribute band, I know why. Some of her bass lines play wildly across the rhythms of what you have to sing, and Brian's somewhat ploddy bass lines enable your brain to sort the harmonies and the rhythms. Not all the songs, but quite a few are very tough. My techniques changes from song to song - some finger tips on the right hand, others finger nail - some switch between the two in one song - and some are played more like I play my double bass, with first finger straighter using the side more. I've never thought about specifically alternating fingers - I had to think hard about the songs and my second finger isn't needed very often at all, apart from perhaps a few quick octave jumps. I can't see this being a barrier to decent playing?

 

[Hardbassjunkie]

I'm only half kidding when I ask this. I've committed at least 30 minutes every night to practicing my alternate fingering and rest stroke. But this is all irrelevant if I just used a pick? I mean I don't have any issues with alternate picking.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Pick is a completely different animal, but you are better off with the same attention to up stroke/down stroke, and getting them consistent. A lot easier to palm mute with pick too.