Alternating fingers: Does it need to be perfect?

[JimmyM]

On a gig, what counts is getting the notes right at all costs. But as an academic exercise, you absolutely should alternate strictly, for several reasons.

1. This gets you used to leading with each finger.

2. Often you won't have a choice but to alternate strictly.

3. When doing fast riffs, not alternating will stop your momentum, which can result in uneven playing, especially when skipping strings.

Dave LaRue absolutely insisted on alternating with no raking and no other types of cheating when I took lessons from him, no matter how uncomfortable it made me, and to this day I thank him for it. Made a huge positive difference in my playing. Anyone who tells you different is wrong.

 

[Mugre]

I think Ed Friedland has a really balanced, efficient approach. It's mostly alternating but uses the same finger when string crossing downward. It's natural an intuitive. I had a cello teacher and I used to ask her all the time, "Am I doing this right?" Eventually she said, Are you getting the sound you want? Does it not hurt? Then you're doing it right."

 

[SteveCS]

... I had a cello teacher and I used to ask her all the time, "Am I doing this right?" Eventually she said, Are you getting the sound you want? Does it not hurt? Then you're doing it right."

What did your next level teacher have to say?

 

[npbassman]

My two cents...after I made the switch to strictly alternate plucking with the occasional exception of a rake to a lower string using the same finger, my precision, speed, accuracy and overall ability to play tunes that I previously thought were out of reach went through the roof. All of a sudden I'm playing tunes like what is hip, oil in the ground, Do I do by Stevie, stuff like that. YMMV but that switch to alternate plucking was one of the major turning points in my playing.

 

[JimmyM]

My two cents...after I made the switch to strictly alternate plucking with the occasional exception of a rake to a lower string using the same finger, my precision, speed, accuracy and overall ability to play tunes that I previously thought were out of reach went through the roof. All of a sudden I'm playing tunes like what is hip, oil in the ground, Do I do by Stevie, stuff like that. YMMV but that switch to alternate plucking was one of the major turning points in my playing.

Alternating is ESPECIALLY important on a tune like "What Is Hip," which is almost all 16th notes. Rake and your momentum gets slowed immensely. Good job!

 

[okcrum]

Alternating fingers: Does it need to be perfect?

No. It just needs to sound perfect.

 

[SactoBass]

There's no such thing as a "classically trained electric bass method." Classical acoustic guitar technique does not apply to electric bass! (In fact there is a risk of damaging your hands.) This teacher is BS'ing you to justify their 3x higher price.

My advice is to study with the professional rock musician, learn songs, join a band, get gigs (if that is your goal), and be happy.

^^^THIS!

 

[pbassjbass]

I started with the Mel Bay Electric bass books, way back in the dark ages. They taught the alternating approach, and I've never regretted adopting that technique. Somewhere about that same time, I was also taught to avoid using open strings, so that I could change keys with greater ease. Another lesson appreciated over the years.

 

[MDBass]

I am a self taught bass player that has been taking lessons and it has helped me immensely. Things like flying fingers have improve quite a bit. My main teacher is a professional rock musician who has not taught before. I decided to try out a person that was classically trained and 3 times the price. He pointed out something to me. Although I DO alternate my fingers, its isnt perfect. Sometimes I will use my index twice in a row. He says that needs to be fixed. My rock teacher has not mentioned anything.

What does everyone think? Does it affect the sound at all?

The classically trainer person is wrong, flat out: watch Jaco or Jamerson and you’ll see why.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Geddy Lee has recently adopted a "finger flick", basically using his index finger like a pick, sort of a Flamenco technique. It's hard to argue with a non-traditional technique that sounds great, even if it isn't strictly alternating. I was taught to always alternate, and it's good basic technique, but try as you might, there may always be a slight difference in attack, just based on the geometry of fingers of different lengths, that produce a slightly different tone finger to finger. If I really want to play two notes in quick succession, maybe even just the SAME note twice, I see no reason not to use the same finger twice instead of alternating. Once you have alternating down solid, feel free to deviate. Watch this Joe Dart Vulpeck solo, he rakes, uses the same finger, etc, he's the master of 1/16th note chops. If anybody cares to demonstrate how they can play him into the ground by ultra-strict adherence to alternating, by all means demonstrate! learn the rules, then break them as needed to get the sound you want, and what works for your hands.

 

[Cutter8]

Don't confuse "perfect" with "strict." These are two related, but separate concepts. I would argue being needlessly "strict" is the opposite of "perfection" (at least, in the real world outside the pressures of a conservatory environment).

It is normal and permissible to use the same plucking finger twice in a row. For example "raking" the same finger across multiple strings is a common technique. Or a lot of players play slow passages with one finger, and only use alternate plucking as necessary on faster sections. Or sometimes it is ergonomic to use the same finger twice, if it sets up the fingering for a difficult section that is coming up.

Bruce Lee said "be like water" and I think that is a great philosophy for rock bassists. There is no "one size fits all" strict path to perfection in rock music.

^^^^^+1^^^^^ !!!

I know I can’t provide a better response than Mushroo, so I’m not going to try.

 

[Bassic Needs]

What I have been doing, so my brain isn't thinking about everything at once, is isolating my practicing to left hand and right hand and then trying it together. When practicing the alternating fingers for the right hand I just mute the strings with the left and focus my attention on the fingers alternating. It's a work in progress and I do find when I try to incorporate the left hand that I will start making mistakes.

Just practice what you want to improve in bite-sized chunks rather than trying to do it all. It's kinda boring at times, but you will see progress.

 

[thmsjordan]

There's no such thing as a "classically trained electric bass method." Classical acoustic guitar technique does not apply to electric bass! (In fact there is a risk of damaging your hands.) This teacher is BS'ing you to justify their 3x higher price.

My advice is to study with the professional rock musician, learn songs, join a band, get gigs (if that is your goal), and be happy.

...Not to mention that if he is talking classical doublebass - it is a whole different animal and there is quite a lot of variation there as well although a doublebass player commonly is taught to pluck with one finger, the index while simultaneously holding a French or German bow. Jazz guys have been seen using 1,2, or even more fingers. Classical bass pizzicato doesn't translate to the electric bass that well because of the bow. Many passages will switch between the two mid stream etc.

I realize this post has nothing to do with the alternating question which has been well answered here. Just a doubler here pointing out that if this guy is using "Classical" as a justification for alternating, it seems very out of place.

 

[4001]

Things sound a certain way when they are done right and things sound a certain way when they are not.
You choose what sounds best for your gig.
Whenever I hear someone say "good enough", my bet is that it isn't.
I try to play everything as originally played. If that requires perfect alternate fingering to make the groove right, then that is what it takes. I guess I'd just have to work a little harder at getting it right because for me, "good enough" is bogus.

 

[JimmyM]

The classically trainer person is wrong, flat out: watch Jaco or Jamerson and you’ll see why.

You gonna listen to me or listen to your friends?



Jamerson played with one finger only, so IMHO his style is N/A to the discussion. Jaco, I will give you that, but even though he occasionally raked, he was very much a proponent of alternation.

 

[MDBass]

You gonna listen to me or listen to your friends?



Jamerson played with one finger only, so IMHO his style is N/A to the discussion. Jaco, I will give you that, but even though he occasionally raked, he was very much a proponent of alternation.

Of course even dynamics in alternation is a great thing: some kind of arbitrary adherence to constant alternation being absolutely
mandatory isn’t.

Unless it’s creating issues for the OP, it’s not a problem that needs fixing: to me it sounds like the teacher is finding ways for the OP to waste his time (and justify his absurd pay scale) instead of actively improve his playing.

 

[oldcatfish]

I am a self taught bass player that has been taking lessons and it has helped me immensely. Things like flying fingers have improve quite a bit. My main teacher is a professional rock musician who has not taught before. I decided to try out a person that was classically trained and 3 times the price. He pointed out something to me. Although I DO alternate my fingers, its isnt perfect. Sometimes I will use my index twice in a row. He says that needs to be fixed. My rock teacher has not mentioned anything.

What does everyone think? Does it affect the sound at all?

--I am a guitar/bass teacher too, and I have had students that started classical guitar lessons that also received conflicting information. I will tell you what I tell my students. What might be "correct technique" in one style might not be correct for another style.
For example, one of my guitar students was told by his classical instructor that he should "always have the thumb behind the neck." That position works well for classical guitar playing, but not for blues and rock guitar....try bending notes accurately with the thumb behind the neck. Just doesn't work well.
I am not saying that your classical teacher is wrong....but take what he says with skepticism. Your other teacher is a "professional" according to you, so he must be able to at least play well. Ask him directly and see what he says.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

I've always been of the mindset that alternating perfectly during practice was a necessity. While running scales, warming up, learning tunes, whatever.
Always alternate.
On the gig? That's a different question.
On the gig, do what feels and sounds right, and keeps the music happening. Raking, using one finger, plucking with a toe nail, whatever.
Practice is about perfection of technique and theory.
Gigs are about making music and letting it breathe.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I just hit the strings with whatever is available finger wise, and hope that something hits at somewhere around the right place at somewhere around the right time....

 

[MattZilla]

Sometimes I will use my index twice in a row. He says that needs to be fixed.

I also play classical guitar, unless he's saying it from the perspective of exclusively focusing on cementing in good rudiments before learning songs, this is the most nonsense thing I've ever read.

But- if this teacher has a lot of long term students, and more than a few former students who have gone professional in some form, it would be wise to just do what they say, make it a weekly or bi-weekly thing, do your assigned homework and become an ace pro.