Am I in the wrong?

[AMp'D.2play]

The bar loved us and wanted us to come back regularly, which we said sure.

Hindsight being 20/20, you & the rest of the band probably should not have agreed to this without getting all of the particulars in order. (But you know that already!) Your BL and other bandmates have put you in an awkward position with your friend, the bar owner.

Not knowing what the market in your area will bear, how much $$ per are your bandmates expecting for small gigs? They may say they aren't going to take less than $100 per, and that may work with a 3 or 4-man band, but with a 6-man band, you may have priced yourselves out of the market. Especially since you're a new band and an unknown commodity (except for your friend's bar).

 

[joebar]

going thru similar situation in my band.
haven`t played a gig yet but lead singer (read diva) has `connections` and can get us in the high end hotels in vancouver paying huge dollars...
i will believe it when i see it.
and if even if we were able to get those shows, we are not good enough to do them and charge money.
you gotta do it for the love first and pay some dues.

 

[Depth_Charge]

Does your band pay to rehearse in a studio?
Since the venue wasn't paying bands to play prior to yours coming along, you're not undercutting other area bands by taking less to play there and you guys could have got paid to rehearse and learn to gig regularly, all while building your fan base, recording live video and audio, making a name etc etc, and the venue had a new drawcard with a regular band which may have improved their business.
Win win IMHO.
Excellent opportunity wasted by diva attitudes. Some band members puzzle me. Always have. Always will.
Danger now is the venue owner finds a band that will play for the pay on offer.
Good luck.

 

[denton57]

Personally, some money is required, but I weigh the venue and experience over the final pay. I'm not a pro, and my day job pays very well. If its a gig at some dude bday party for about 30 people.. No thanks. If its in front of 150 people at a restaurant/bar, I'm all in for whatever it pays because I value the experience of another gig (and I like hearing my V4B and P at gig volumes )

If your band is just starting out with no other gigs, I don't see why your band would pass that up.

 

[fdeck]

In my view, part of the problem is that you got stuck in a three way negotiation. One of my rules is: Whoever is going to make an up-or-down decision is the one who does the negotiating. I try not to negotiate on anybody else's behalf unless they tell me up front what offers I can accept, and agree that they will live by whatever settlement I make.

 

[BluezBassist]

Oh man, can I relate to so many of you guys in this thread...

For the sake and integrity of the band's name (and your peace of mind), I'd say play the show for what they offer/you guys agreed to. It doesn't sound like you're turning other gigs down for this, so call it beer money or a paid practice, but I think a deal is a deal...

I get that everyone wants to make as much as they can, but every gig is different, the groups I'm with approach each offer realistically with two dollar figures in mine, what to ask for and what to settle for. We might play a corporate party where we can aks for $1800, but those are two, three times a year... The bars that fill the other weekends will be $400 to $700... In those cases, see what else you can get if you're not happy with the dollar figure... Everything is negotiable... If the money isn't great, ask for a meal, or a couple drinks... it they want you bad enough, they'll work to get a deal to get you in...

 

[scorpionldr]

Here's the scoop,

My band has been playin together since Nov. Its a six person cover band. Our first show was in April, it was a tiny gig for our guitarists surprise bday party, in the basement of a tiny bar where 4 of us played for 45 minutes.

Our first real show was back in may. The owner is a personal friend of mine and I asked him if he would allow us to play, as a favor to me, as they don't usually have live music given the size of the place barely holds 80-100 people. The first show went over very well, we brought a great crowd and played 2 1/2 hours of stuff. The bar loved us and wanted us to come back regularly, which we said sure.

So then it apparently falls on me to be the negotiator and that I'm supposed to get a great price for us to play regularly there. I'm not the band leader and I wanted no part in trying to negotiate prices with my friend. I made this very clear to everyone else, and even though they said they'd be ok taking care of it, still a week later theyre asking me what the deal is.

So fianlly I get the offer, yeah it's pretty low, half what they wanted at minimum. So a week before our next show the BL decides the offer is insulting and even when the owner says I can't give you guys over half what I make in a night. Now the whole band says its not worth it and decides to cancel...

So here's my issue, we're a brand new band, noone else knows us, and we've got nowhere even close to another offer to play somewhere. Why didn't we just take the gig and work it out later down the line, this way we get to play (which is the whole point), work on our sound, decide which songs people respond to and which they don't and get paid and free drink to PLAY MUSIC...I get it, people have other things they need to do, have kids and need a babysitter, other plans they can do. We've all got full time jobs, this isn't gonna be a career. How can you say this isn't about the money when the first lowball offer you find insulting and want more money??? Especially when it's the first offer we've ever gotten?

I got out voted, I can accept that but I feel we got our ego's way too inflated after just one show. We've got nothing in the works, we had a chance at a regular gig which I felt was a way to practice outside of a basement. We've got no press yet, no contacts yet and the only place we had we just pissed off... Am I right for thinking any gig is a good gig when you're just starting out? Or am I wrong??

I'm going to say you are right thinking any gig is good but you better get used to being wrong. About everything.

This past weekend I was talking with a friend who had just played a show the night before. And he's talking about the whole band situation bothering him. He's trying to move up; he's getting the bags featured in a documentary, getting radio play, getting shows going, finishing an album, etc. But very few ppl show up to their shows. So he's sweating it.

In few other words I can see he's doing everything he can to promote his original act, but it's not flying.

I asked him one simple question: "so man, you tired yet? Of all the loading gear and everything for so little?"

"Well yea, of course."

"Well now you see why I don't give a **** about playing in bands coming out with nothing to show for it" (whereas on my own I have something, it may slightly suck but it's at least something).

So my advice? Get in a studio, make some recordings, distribute. Maybe you have a friend who can connect you. But people will appreciate having something they can take away from experiencing your band.

 

[MarkMgibson]

Does your band pay to rehearse in a studio?
Since the venue wasn't paying bands to play prior to yours coming along, you're not undercutting other area bands by taking less to play there and you guys could have got paid to rehearse and learn to gig regularly, all while building your fan base, recording live video and audio, making a name etc etc, and the venue had a new drawcard with a regular band which may have improved their business.
Win win IMHO.
Excellent opportunity wasted by diva attitudes. Some band members puzzle me. Always have. Always will.
Danger now is the venue owner finds a band that will play for the pay on offer.
Good luck.

I completely agree. As you say, if you'd played another gig or two and they were successful, the bar owner could have have charged a cover fee. If he's a fair guy, he probably would've given it all to the band if he had a huge increase in patrons. Since he's a friend of yours, he probably would have done so.

The band I play in has a minimum price, but we've been around for years, and three of us have played with big-name acts. Starting out, I played lots of gigs for drinks and a few dollars, and there's nothing wrong with that. When we started drawing a crowd, we got paid more money. I think your BL is wrong, pure and simple. You could have played a couple of gigs to see how it went and possibly gained some more fans. Instead you're all sitting at home doing nothing. Reputations have to be earned - it's really that simple. A start-up band can't expect to get paid big money when nobody knows who they are. That's totally unrealistic, especially these days.

 

[Russell L]

Right now I have a power trio. We each make $100 at small to medium bars. Another band I played in had eight musicians onstage, and each was getting around $150 to $200, so you can see how much they had to ask. They didn't play the same venues the power trio plays for that reason, but the gigs were fewer as a result. And they went on the road a lot. Nowadays I play more times for less, but end up making more money overall. Exposure helps tremendously.

 

[gregmon79]

I totally think you are in the right frame of thinking. Completely. Given the circumstances, I would've taken the gig without too much consideration. Its hard to find a gig in some areas especially when you're first starting out in a band. It sounds like your friend was doing you a favor by letting you guys play there. The only thing I have to disagree with you on is the part of your "BL" taking care of the financial part of the gig. It was you who got the gig and it is your friend. Now I understand that in some bands there is one guy who usually does this job, but under the circumstances I would've taken the reigns wholeheartedly and communicated between the venue friend and your band. Thats just me though. As far as your band being insulted at a paying gig after y'all JUST started out, well, I think its stupid but I know there are contributing factors to the way some think about playing music out to the public. Some that you had stated. But to me, that is half the reason of even being in a band, to play out. The other half is to make music together IMO. Not just to make as much money as you can. Ive never been the type of guy to be money hungry over giggin. I just love playing with my band(s) and love creating music with them. Its the best. It stinks when things like this come in into play. Hope you work it out. I would take the gig. Explain to them it is better than nothing!

 

[nojj]

In my 'fun' band, the fella who books the job is the one who handles the money.

 

[MonkeyBass]

I haven't read all the responses so maybe someone already said this and if so I apologize. I personally agree with your band mates. If a bar can't afford to pay a band a decent amount of money to load all the gear in, play for 2 hours, and load out then they can't afford that type of entertainment at their bar. You need to be paid what you deserve, and so many bands "pay their dues" and get screwed that bar owners expect ALL bands to play for little to no money. Stand up and say no.

 

[gregmon79]

I haven't read all the responses so maybe someone already said this and if so I apologize. I personally agree with your band mates. If a bar can't afford to pay a band a decent amount of money to load all the gear in, play for 2 hours, and load out then they can't afford that type of entertainment at their bar. You need to be paid what you deserve, and so many bands "pay their dues" and get screwed that bar owners expect ALL bands to play for little to no money. Stand up and say no.

It was all their choices to play a bar that regularly does not provide live entertainment of this nature. I agree you should get paid a good wage but again, sometimes you just dont have that luxury of playing a place that is going to pay everything you want. So you play for the experience, the fun of it and the just to play. The original band Im in now doesnt make that mucha t all. But we play small bars on the northside of CHI so it is pretty easy for us to find places to play at but there is usually only 5 to 20 people there every time and the most we have made at one show was like $120 for a 45 min setlist of originals. We just started playing out about 3 months ago. Im happy to just play/play out and get the exp. Call me afool but I like it and we have fun doing it. And we make, literally, a few bucks while were doing it.

 

[bluewine]

It was all their choices to play a bar that regularly does not provide live entertainment of this nature. I agree you should get paid a good wage but again, sometimes you just dont have that luxury of playing a place that is going to pay everything you want. So you play for the experience, the fun of it and the just to play. The original band Im in now doesnt make that mucha t all. But we play small bars on the northside of CHI so it is pretty easy for us to find places to play at but there is usually only 5 to 20 people there every time and the most we have made at one show was like $120 for a 45 min setlist of originals. We just started playing out about 3 months ago. Im happy to just play/play out and get the exp. Call me afool but I like it and we have fun doing it. And we make, literally, a few bucks while were doing it.

I think I'm on thw side of, if your starting out you have to start somewhere and that somewhere might have to be lower paying gigs.

However playing in a bar that does not regularly provide music might be tough. In some cases their patrons don't want live music.

blue

 

[MarkMgibson]

I haven't read all the responses so maybe someone already said this and if so I apologize. I personally agree with your band mates. If a bar can't afford to pay a band a decent amount of money to load all the gear in, play for 2 hours, and load out then they can't afford that type of entertainment at their bar. You need to be paid what you deserve, and so many bands "pay their dues" and get screwed that bar owners expect ALL bands to play for little to no money. Stand up and say no.

That's not the case here though. The bar manager is a friend of the OP and was doing him a favour by hiring them, and it's a very small club by the sounds of it. I do agree that you "need to be paid what you deserve", but this is a start-up band, so any paying gig is worth doing. Besides that, the club owner probably knows other owners or managers, so it could have led to playing bigger clubs with larger audiences and better pay down the track.

You have to start somewhere, and the guy was paying them what he could afford to pay them given the number of patrons attending. I know a few young bands who would jump at a chance like that. If the average audience was 400 or 500 people, it would be different, but you can't expect any owner to fork out big bucks for a band to play to 80 people, and let's face it - 80 to 100 people digging your music is not a bad start for a totally unknown band. The BL needs to let some air out of his ego.

 

[NWB]

If there is one thing I have learned in being in bands the last 11 years is most bands think they are worth more and are more impotant then they are or ever will be.

That little typo makes the statement pretty funny!

I know that he meant to write "important".