I play on my worship team at church. I stand between the drum kit and one of the electric guitar players. I have a Fender Rumble 350 amp. I can hardly hear myself but the sound man and the singers on the other side of the stage say that I am way too loud. Actually, the sound man completely shuts me off in the system because he says that if he turns me on in the system at all I overpower everything. Am I doing something wrong?
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Am I really too loud?
- Thread starter amb2013
- Start date
Is your amp on the floor or raised off the floor? Legs have no ears.
How close to the amp are you standing and is your amp right on the floor?
if the amp is down low and you’re close to it it may be that you’re not getting a good sense of how loud you really are. Try getting out in front of the amp or, if that’s not possible because of the space available on stage, try raising your amp up on a chair or a road case and tilting it back a little so it’s pointing more towards your head. You’ll be able to hear yourself much better and that will enable you to turn down to a level the others can work with.
if the amp is down low and you’re close to it it may be that you’re not getting a good sense of how loud you really are. Try getting out in front of the amp or, if that’s not possible because of the space available on stage, try raising your amp up on a chair or a road case and tilting it back a little so it’s pointing more towards your head. You’ll be able to hear yourself much better and that will enable you to turn down to a level the others can work with.
My amp is currently on the floor. I do have a stand for it. I just need to use it.
The soundman and the singers already told you that you were too loud…so you know the answer to your question.
Here is what you can do:
1. lower your expectations
2. raise your combo to Ear level
3. use In-ears
4. lower your expectations
Here is what you can do:
1. lower your expectations
2. raise your combo to Ear level
3. use In-ears
4. lower your expectations
Also... if you EQ it right, more mids and less lows, you can hear it better without having to get louder.
Since they have you in the PA and you really only need your amp as a personal monitor - if the stage layout permits, I’d suggest moving the amp in front of you and tilting it back aimed at your head. Like is done with stage monitors.
If that’s not possible and the amp has to stay behind you, get an amp stand. This will both get the amp up higher and aim it at your ears. ( Musician's Gear Deluxe Amp Stand )
Either method will allow you to turn down the amp.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
If that’s not possible and the amp has to stay behind you, get an amp stand. This will both get the amp up higher and aim it at your ears. ( Musician's Gear Deluxe Amp Stand )
Either method will allow you to turn down the amp.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
I play church gigs. I never use an amp - there is one relatively big room that I play where there is a Ampeg/fridge on the stage, and even though I don't have to haul it (the best kind of amp is one you don't have to move), I don't use that - 13 year old me would dream of a rig like that but I don't want to use an amp any more.
I send a signal from my pedalboard to FOH, and hear myself on in ears. I put literally no sound onto the stage. Sound guys love me, and I hear myself beautifully every time. I can tell when I'm in the house mix by my feet.
I send a signal from my pedalboard to FOH, and hear myself on in ears. I put literally no sound onto the stage. Sound guys love me, and I hear myself beautifully every time. I can tell when I'm in the house mix by my feet.
Too loud can also be a producer's decision for the mix quality. Some songs need the bass to punch through and own the song. Other songs or styles need the bass to be low in the mix, a simple complement that blends all the instruments as a whole without standing out. Don't jump to technical conclusions before you know what the producer is looking for.
And you need the amp way behind you, NOT right behind you. Also, the amp may be coupling with the floor causing the floor to (in essence) become a huge sub speaker.
What kind of stand to you have?
Use the stand , tilt the amp back so that you can hear it, turn down the bass control on the amp, actually level out all of the EQ. The room is amplifying the lowest tones 10x more than the other frequencies so don't add to it.
If your bass has a bridge pickup- try using only that PU and see how tight the whole group becomes!
If your bass has a bridge pickup- try using only that PU and see how tight the whole group becomes!
It’s very possible that you are standing in a location where the room reflects and cancels the bass. Try to get your amp up against a wall or in a corner and get yourself away from it. Walk around and see if it changes. Elevating to eliminate floor coupling can also help as well as eq dialing out the extreme low end if the room is boomy.
Agree with comments to raise amp. You have a stand, easy-peasy.
FWIW, it's not uncommon to not be able to hear yourself when you're too close to your amp - even when it's raised. I play many different venues and the experience is different for every single one. Sometimes I feel like I'm loud, but nobody says anything. I love really being able to feel what I'm doing. More often, I can barely hear myself and get asked to turn down.
In most cases, the further away from your amp you can be, the better you'll hear yourself. We rarely get to choose that distance, so we need to adjust to what works. Practice playing in a manner that you can barely hear yourself and roll with it. It takes some getting used to.
The suggestion to use in-ears is a good one - not the cheapest solution, but a valid one. Since you have FOH support, you might be able to get by without even having an amp on stage if you have a DI box and in-ears.
I miss the band I was in where I could go ampless - load in and out was so much easier and the stage is much less cluttered.
Bottom line is your days are numbered with this project if you can't control your volume to keep everyone else happy.
FWIW, it's not uncommon to not be able to hear yourself when you're too close to your amp - even when it's raised. I play many different venues and the experience is different for every single one. Sometimes I feel like I'm loud, but nobody says anything. I love really being able to feel what I'm doing. More often, I can barely hear myself and get asked to turn down.
In most cases, the further away from your amp you can be, the better you'll hear yourself. We rarely get to choose that distance, so we need to adjust to what works. Practice playing in a manner that you can barely hear yourself and roll with it. It takes some getting used to.
The suggestion to use in-ears is a good one - not the cheapest solution, but a valid one. Since you have FOH support, you might be able to get by without even having an amp on stage if you have a DI box and in-ears.
I miss the band I was in where I could go ampless - load in and out was so much easier and the stage is much less cluttered.
Bottom line is your days are numbered with this project if you can't control your volume to keep everyone else happy.
What kind of bass is it?
What if you brought a Bass VI? They’d think it was a guitar and then you wouldn’t be too loud.
There’s a drum kit and more than one guitar and a bunch of singers with a fully supported PA and is there an organ or keys? No way your combo is too loud unless someone just doesn’t want to hear the bass.
What if you brought a Bass VI? They’d think it was a guitar and then you wouldn’t be too loud.
There’s a drum kit and more than one guitar and a bunch of singers with a fully supported PA and is there an organ or keys? No way your combo is too loud unless someone just doesn’t want to hear the bass.
The first part of the problem is your expectations. As @Zbysek suggested, lower them. In my experience, most people want to hear their voice and instrument about 6-10dB louder than other elements in the mix. If you could instantly shift from a playing perspective to a listening perspective, you may actually agree that you are too loud. This is normal, and something that even top pros have to deal with.
Unfortunately, it's generally difficult, if not impossible for everyone in the band to get their desired 6-10dB. Part of the reason is due to insufficient distances between players. Sound drops off at a rate of about 6dB for each doubling of distance. So if you are 4' from your amp, the guitar player needs to be at least 8' from your amp for the sound to drop off by 6dB. 8' probably does not seem all that extreme. But consider the distance requirements when you have a 5-piece rhythm section, and each person needs 8' or more distance from everyone one else.
Hopefully this helps you visualize the problem (sound sources in red).
Houses of worship are often large spaces with cavernous reverb that takes a long time to decay. Low frequencies tend to rumble around for an extended time. They can build up and mask other important elements of the mix. In really big spaces I believe the low frequencies can build up into a diffuse field. The SPL is constant throughout a diffuse, so if you are too loud in one location, you may be too loud pretty much everywhere.
When you have this sort of problem, about the only available solution available is to put less energy into the problem frequency range. So yes, unfortunately you are probably too loud. Hearing the bass clearly may be important, but it probably needs to be secondary to other priorities (like hearing the melody and words).
The correct solution is acoustic design and treatment. In other words, to create an acoustic space that is more suited to amplified music. Acoustic design and treatment tend to be very expensive, and they can also take away from visual grandeur that a worship hall intends to communicate.
Depends on the acoustics properties of the room, your amp placement, and your EQ. I’m going to guess here. If you are scooping out your low mids so you have more deep bass, it can make it hard to hear yourself in the mix unless you turn up. When you do this, the sound person has no choice but to pull you out of the mix. Further, the others on the platform that are off axis (not in front of your speakers) might be overwhelmed by Uber bass.
Try this, set your amp to flat. If you have an active bass, set it to flat as well. Then gradually boost your low mids at about 165-180hz.
The second thing is make sure your cab is not against a wall or in a corner, and if the platform is hollow (like it booms if you stomp your feet) put you cab up on a milk crate.
Finally, take some time and talk to the sound person. It’s quite possible that there is an acoustical anomaly due to the design of the room. At my last church, the sanctuary was excitable at 250hz to the point the roof rattled. They should be able to, should be more than willing to dial you in.
One thing I did was to record services with a digital recorder. Let’s just say it was very enlightening, and those recordings are worth a thousand words. Needless to say, things tightened up a lot after that.
Just want to let you know I can appreciate your frustration. I served 23 three years at that church and it was not the most fulling place to be a bassist, but I assure you I was called to be there. I considered it a cross I bore for the Kingdom.
Best wishes.
JeezyMcNuggles
Inactive
- Feb 23, 2018
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It could be you are sustaining notes “too long” for the others. If you play “smoother” (no loud attack to the note) and mute it earlier than currently, you leave more sound “space” for everyone else. You are a rhythm section to them. Play with good timing and enhance the performance of rest of the people. Maybe?
