So long as I'm playing to small numbers in beer gardens I'll never have in-ears. I have a wonderful rig, an EA Doubler and 2 Wizzy M-Lines but when playing at low volumes sometimes the sound just passes me by. I was bent down in front of it the other day at a jam session trying to chase the chords the guitarists were playing and again I wanted a little high quality 6" bass combo mounted up high near my head just for me.
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Am I really too loud?
- Thread starter amb2013
- Start date
I used to keep my eq pretty flat for playing live and had a similar problem. Although I was using a stage monitor and it was pointed at me directly. I still couldn't really hear myself. And it's not that the monitor doesn't produce any low end. It does that pretty well, besides I'm usually standing a couple of feet away from two of the four pa bass 18 inchers. I would still just get lost in the mix somehow. So I started using a more mid heavy tone. Still sounds great in the mix (arguably even better) and I can turn myself up on my monitor and hear every note I play without it becoming muddy.
Often it's really just a matter of changing your eq a bit and even if it might sound bad at home, it could very well sound perfect in the band situation. Gotta do some trial and error and see if they still bitch about it
There are several references to setting your amp eq “flat”. That’s good advice, but you should be aware that, with almost all bass amps, setting the eq controls to noon is not flat - it’s a baked in eq that the designer (or the Marketing person) thought was good. That eq is usually mid scooped - with a Fender tone stack, actual flat is with the mid control at max, and the bass and treble controls at very low settings - usually 2 or below. There are good reasons for some mid scoop, but “some mid scoop” is usually achieved with the mid control up, and the bass and treble controls down some from noon.
Unless you know what control settings are flat (it’s a good exercise to measure this, if you have the gear to do so), you’re kinda shooting in the dark, but know that boosting the mids from “all knobs at noon” is almost certainly where you want to go.
If, like me, your amp is a pedalboard, and your eq is set by an eq pedal that is flat with everything set midway, you kinda have to flip your thinking.
—I had this EXACT thing happen to me at a church that I was playing at regularly. The sound engineer was very experienced and also a bass player, so I took him at his word that I was too loud. I had an emergency and had to be off one weekend with short notice, so he covered for me….and the same thing happened with him, but was even worse. When I came back, we solved the problem. Here is what we did.
1) We were using a wedge to angle the amp up, but it wasn’t enough. Needed a stand.
2) The amp was in a corner…so the bass frequencies were bouncing back toward the congregation. We were close enough to the amp, that the player could not notice it. We moved the amp to face across the stage.
3) We cut the bass frequencies on the amp and boosted the mids. Easier for the player to hear. The sound engineer got a direct line pre-eq anyway, so he adjusted it for the mix.
4) I have a Zoom MS 60b that I utilized as a hpf to lower the lowest frequencies even more. A dedicated HPF would have been even better, but I already had the Zoom.
By doing those things, the overall sound improved greatly. No longer too loud, and I could hear myself much better.
I’m using high and low pass filters in big rooms. Even smaller rooms, sometimes. Lots of good points here, but the take away is that bass loads a room and resonates differently than most other instruments, except organs, that are often encountered in worship settings.
I have had fairly good results stuffing a sweater into the bass reflex ports (aside for all the other good suggestions - HPF, turn down bass, direct the bass combo towards my face).
But then again - we don't do loud in any church where I play.
Everything i do aims towards removing bass and pointing the mid towards my face. Most important thing for me is to hear if I'm playing the correct note and if my bass is in tune.
But then again - we don't do loud in any church where I play.
Everything i do aims towards removing bass and pointing the mid towards my face. Most important thing for me is to hear if I'm playing the correct note and if my bass is in tune.
I went with IEMs a couple of months ago and can't imagine going back to having an amp on-stage. I can always hear myself and sound guys love me.
I would also consider how much low end the keyboard and to a lesser extent the guitar rigs are adding to the mix. If your keys player is hanging out in your territory and using layered patches, that could contribute to the problem. Same for some guitar multi-effects patches that sound big and full in the bedroom but take up too much space in the mix.
I read a post several years back on the worship bass players thread about a guy with the same problem. He kept turning down and the sound guy said he was still too loud. He finally unplugged the cable going into his amp, they ran through a tune with literally no sound coming from the bass, then asked the sound guy if that was better. Guess what: the bass was still too loud. The point being the excessive low end was coming from somewhere else. Best of luck.
I read a post several years back on the worship bass players thread about a guy with the same problem. He kept turning down and the sound guy said he was still too loud. He finally unplugged the cable going into his amp, they ran through a tune with literally no sound coming from the bass, then asked the sound guy if that was better. Guess what: the bass was still too loud. The point being the excessive low end was coming from somewhere else. Best of luck.
Your issue is very common in worship bands....
We had similar issues due to the church design ( built for an organ not a modern worship band)
I too went IEM and love it... I can adjust to exactly what and who I want to hear ..... And the sound guy gets what he wants in the mix ( he jokingly says... Your volume " button" says mute... Done!)
We had similar issues due to the church design ( built for an organ not a modern worship band)
I too went IEM and love it... I can adjust to exactly what and who I want to hear ..... And the sound guy gets what he wants in the mix ( he jokingly says... Your volume " button" says mute... Done!)
Sounds like the church might not be super good acoustically.
Also, does your amp have a low mid knob? My Rumble 500 had one, and I found that with it even at noon, it emphasizes a particularly obnoxious frequency that I never liked that was always sort of overpowering. I *always* turned it down below noon. It's probably the sort of thing that works to help you cut in a dense mix, but in a sparser one you're just sticking out.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
This. The biggest mistake anyone can make in setting their amp volume is being right on top of the thing and turning it up so that you hear it 'perfectly'. It means you're killing people out front. Get the amp behind you by several feet at least. Have someone you trust to make a good sound on your bass play it, while you step 10, 15, 20 feet out in front. Then you'll know what it sounds like out there. Oftentimes what is 'thin' (or sometimes boomy in certain spots) up close sounds fine out front. If you're on a super small stage and can't help but be on top of the amp, then you'll have to deal with it, or find a way to get some sort of monitor coming back at you with some of your signal to compensate.
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i was in a band, and one guitar player (out of 4 other people) always complained i was too loud (I had my cabs stacked - so sound was at ear level). He complained and complained, so finally, i didn't even plug in. He still complained. When I showed him the jack hanging at my strap, he shut up.
As an addendum to this, it's worth noting that sometimes when people say, "you're too loud", what they are vaguely referring to is that some over-emphasized frequency is too loud, not your overall volume.
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If people are saying you're too loud, then you are.
You'll need to find out the why before doing something about it.
You could start by listening to your bass, with the same settings, while being played by someone else (if there's anyone you can trust for that
) so you can gauge what other people are hearing.
You'll need to find out the why before doing something about it.
You could start by listening to your bass, with the same settings, while being played by someone else (if there's anyone you can trust for that
) so you can gauge what other people are hearing.
