Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[ugly_bassplayer]

I've been coming to the realization that my journey into ambient music has been about my personal rejection of "Beat" based music. I enjoy listening to beats but have been terrible at creating ones I'm satisfied with. I realize that even as a bass player, I have a poor concept of what the grammar of "drums" is, and I even have a weakness mimicking music I enjoy listening to.

The creation of patterns, rhythmic hooks, and song structure seems less of a focal point in the ambient music I aim to compose. It's much more about the space and texture and interplay of the sounds. People I've shared my work with have commented on the textures, but never once brought up anything beat-related.

I was listening to a bunch of 4/4 drum loops the other day and it all came clearer to me. I like that stuff, but I'll never produce a vocabulary of beats or drum loops I feel comfortable creating with. I'll always want someone else to write and arrange the drums. However, I feel great satisfaction in creating complete ambient pieces that have my voice.

Weird. Exactly the same with me. Done alot of beats....some are ok....but I'm sooooo not a boom bap dude like Dilla or Premo.

I can post a beat or 2 out I've made.

I use my sampling as textures...noises...drones....weirdo stuff...guess cuz I suck at "normal" programming and beat and samples....

 

[monsterthompson]

It's been weird identifying it as a rejection of the beat. I had previously thought I'll do X because it feels right but not Y because it doesn't feel right. Assigning a stronger label on it makes it feel more purposeful, like it exists and is established for a reason. It's not quite the same as "learning the rules so I can break them" approach, which would imply that I learned how to make beats and then opted not to follow convention. In my case it is more like stating my language doesn't have that element - Sorry, we just don't conjugate our verbs like that, but it's fine that you do.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

It's been weird identifying it as a rejection of the beat. I had previously thought I'll do X because it feels right but not Y because it doesn't feel right. Assigning a stronger label on it makes it feel more purposeful, like it exists and is established for a reason. It's not quite the same as "learning the rules so I can break them" approach, which would imply that I learned how to make beats and then opted not to follow convention. In my case it is more like stating my language doesn't have that element - Sorry, we just don't conjugate our verbs like that, but it's fine that you do.

I just started doing what was fun and what "felt right".

Sounds corny and lame but....that's it.....

Maybe it's because I went a long time to college and university studying jazz and classic convention.....maybe I'm just speculating.

My 2¢

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

But come to think of it...mm..I did have a major meltdown during my university studies......

But that's another long story.

 

[monsterthompson]

In the spirit of wanting to better understand the things I reject, here's a little beat making machine I built.

Hosted in Ableton, this drives a kick/hat pattern. The clock divider subdivides the incoming host tempo for the kick and snare. That routes to the XYS sequencer. The sequencer pitches are a bit finicky so I route them into quantizers to make sure they trigger the drum rack notes I want (a separate track using Battery). The whole machine outputs a series of gates for kick/hat patterns and can easily mix up odd signatures.
I can almost understand what it's doing and how to manage it

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

In the spirit of wanting to better understand the things I reject, here's a little beat making machine I built.

Hosted in Ableton, this drives a kick/hat pattern. The clock divider subdivides the incoming host tempo for the kick and snare. That routes to the XYS sequencer. The sequencer pitches are a bit finicky so I route them into quantizers to make sure they trigger the drum rack notes I want (a separate track using Battery). The whole machine outputs a series of gates for kick/hat patterns and can easily mix up odd signatures.
I can almost understand what it's doing and how to manage it
View attachment 3651134

Wow. I'm just getting my head around Ableton "normal" as is.....and that's after years using it.

I suck....haha

 

[Alfonso Alba]

Being a drummer and hip hop fan, I do more beat-based stuff than drones/noise. In fact, I've noticed that whenever I do a noise/ambient set, if people aren't getting into it, I can just add a 4-on-the-floor beat and instantly "fix" it.

Here is a simple techno groove I made last week in the modular. Not quite on topic, but anyways...

 

[remcult]

As usual, when visiting my family in New Jersey on holidays, I brought along a small amount of gear and holed myself up in the bedroom I slept in as a teenager to record something while taking a break from family. This time I brought with me a Volca FM synth, an Arturia Keystep MIDI keyboard/sequencer, a pedalboard, and my Westone Spectrum GT bass, as well as a small amp and a TASCAM 8-track recorder.

The Volca FM is playing the main sequence as well as the dramatic stabs or whatever you call them, using the Keystep.

The pads in the background is the bass played through the Boss SY-1, along with some Joyo Flanger and the Caroline Lo-Fi Reverb. The Reverb pedal also provides the runaway feedback effect in spots.

Mixing it on the Tascam I did some panning and stuff. I'm really loving the SY-1; I want to do a series of bass recordings with it.

How do you like the Caroline Reverb?

 

[lordradish]

I've been coming to the realization that my journey into ambient music has been about my personal rejection of "Beat" based music. I enjoy listening to beats but have been terrible at creating ones I'm satisfied with. I realize that even as a bass player, I have a poor concept of what the grammar of "drums" is, and I even have a weakness mimicking music I enjoy listening to.

The creation of patterns, rhythmic hooks, and song structure seems less of a focal point in the ambient music I aim to compose. It's much more about the space and texture and interplay of the sounds. People I've shared my work with have commented on the textures, but never once brought up anything beat-related.

I was listening to a bunch of 4/4 drum loops the other day and it all came clearer to me. I like that stuff, but I'll never produce a vocabulary of beats or drum loops I feel comfortable creating with. I'll always want someone else to write and arrange the drums. However, I feel great satisfaction in creating complete ambient pieces that have my voice.

I could have written this, word for word.

Curmudgeon alert I don't like the modern usage of the word 'ambient', at all. I still see it more as Eno defined it, a music that kind of blends into the environment, that you can even ignore, sometimes and still have it work for you. I remember hearing Moby's "Ambient" album for the first time and having a ***? moment. Ambient to me doesn't have beats in it. Maybe, at most, a slight pulse, but that's it. I like a lot of music that uses it in the modern way, I just don't think it's the best name for it.

That said, though, I love rhythmic electronic music of the non EDM variety. Steve Roach and Robert Rich are two of my favorites and some of their music is very rhythmic.... but not imposing, which is why I'm not a fan of most modern EDM stuff, as I don't like music that beats me over the head. I think Rich/Roach use modulars in a way that can be kind of like a drum machine, but different, and that's the approach I'm trying to take with my music. Some beats, when wanted and needed, but not the defining part of the music.

And my drum programming really sucks. I've played with some amazing drummers, and I'll be damned if I can even get the basic concepts, sometimes.

One thing I've been having fun with on the Digitakt is I load up some percussion samples (skin-type drums, like djembes and stuff), then roll off all of the high end, and if I do it right (usually a little bit of verb, too), it makes for a foundation for a nice ambient pulse. When I get a bit recorded, I'll put something up here.

 

[Spectrum]

I've been coming to the realization that my journey into ambient music has been about my personal rejection of "Beat" based music. I enjoy listening to beats but have been terrible at creating ones I'm satisfied with. I realize that even as a bass player, I have a poor concept of what the grammar of "drums" is, and I even have a weakness mimicking music I enjoy listening to.

The creation of patterns, rhythmic hooks, and song structure seems less of a focal point in the ambient music I aim to compose. It's much more about the space and texture and interplay of the sounds. People I've shared my work with have commented on the textures, but never once brought up anything beat-related.

I was listening to a bunch of 4/4 drum loops the other day and it all came clearer to me. I like that stuff, but I'll never produce a vocabulary of beats or drum loops I feel comfortable creating with. I'll always want someone else to write and arrange the drums. However, I feel great satisfaction in creating complete ambient pieces that have my voice.

I am with you on most of this.

Oddly, though, I think that someone who knows what they are doing can make beats, if not "ambient", then perhaps hypnotic or dreamy is the word? Case in point would be DJ Shadow, dude is great at doing that sort of thing. I can listen to beats like this all day long, but as you say, I can't speak with that vocabulary.

 

[Spectrum]

How do you like the Caroline Reverb?

I love it for the feedback momentary switch, and it does what the label says, "lo fi reverb". My main problem with it is it doesn't have the traditional delay time control I'm used to on reverb pedals. I do use it a lot, though, both with my electronic music and with my rock band for the feedback effect.

 

[monsterthompson]

Empress EchoSystem firmware update just announced with Granular and Freezification modes. Time to investigate those. I've barely tested the Reverb's new Freeze mode.

 

[monsterthompson]

I am with you on most of this.

Oddly, though, I think that someone who knows what they are doing can make beats, if not "ambient", then perhaps hypnotic or dreamy is the word? Case in point would be DJ Shadow, dude is great at doing that sort of thing. I can listen to beats like this all day long, but as you say, I can't speak with that vocabulary.

I certainly believe that bears can be integrated, and that some artists are quite good at it.
As an example, I'm still digging this artist, who I must've posted about before.


I think it comes down to - what are you trying to express, and how do you make it yours? I suppose I could consider a Monty Python approach, and try taking some rudimentary idea and making it into an absurd caricature of a beat.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I am with you on most of this.

Oddly, though, I think that someone who knows what they are doing can make beats, if not "ambient", then perhaps hypnotic or dreamy is the word? Case in point would be DJ Shadow, dude is great at doing that sort of thing. I can listen to beats like this all day long, but as you say, I can't speak with that vocabulary.

As much as IMO Entroducing... is one of the most awesome albums ever made period.
Shadow is like Austin Powers.....he lost his Mojo, I have no idea why or how or ...loss for words.
Am I the only one who thinks this?

 

[lordradish]

I've had an Enzo for quite awhile and have gotten some really fun results. Meris stuff in general is kinda tweaky though. So many secondary functions that have to be memorized. Which I will never do

I got a labeller and printed little labels of all of the secondary functions and put them on the pedal. Doing that little thing has made them so much easier and more productive. I know some people don't like Meris pedals, I love 'em, because they give me sounds I haven't heard from other pedals.

 

[Spectrum]

I got a labeller and printed little labels

I've done that with a lot of gear. One thing that bugs me about pedal makers is when they get cute with the knob function names instead of doing what Boss does and just labeling them with useful info. I love cool pedal paint jobs as much as anyone but please just be straight with the knob labels.

 

[monsterthompson]

Empress EchoSystem Firmware Update
2.06
---------------------
- Updated echoboy to have more feedback at the maximum setting.
- Added Freezification mode (Ambient Purple). Thing 1 is the fade-in time.
Things 2 is the fade-out time. Hitting the
tap stomp freezifies the sound.
Feedback does nothing.
- Added Granular mode (Stutter Red). Tone sets grain density, Thing 1 sets
grain size, Thing 2 sets randomness of the grain playback and random speed/pitch, delay
time sets the delay time. Pressing the tap stomp freezes the grain record. Feedback
sets the delay feedback.
^^^ Should be called ugly_bassplayer setting.
- Tap tempo LED now shows the tempo tapped pre-ratio, instead of showing the
delay time after the ratio has been applied.

 

[dukeorock]

As much as IMO Entroducing... is one of the most awesome albums ever made period.
Shadow is like Austin Powers.....he lost his Mojo, I have no idea why or how or ...loss for words.
Am I the only one who thinks this?

You are not :/

 

[Bob_Ross]

I don't like the modern usage of the word 'ambient', at all. I still see it more as Eno defined it, a music that kind of blends into the environment, that you can even ignore, sometimes and still have it work for you.

I love the idea of functional background music...almost like adding dither to real life [sic]. One of my favorite -- I hesitate to call it a compliment, so let's say reactions -- to my original music was when I gave a copy of my first solo album to a pop singer friend. She only knew me from my pop/rock session work, but this album was mostly angular asymmetric post-prog/fusion and contemporary chamber music, very Arnold Schoenberg-meets-Frank Zappa wacky instrumentals. And I wasn't sure what she was gonna think of it, or if she'd even think it was music. But she told me "I really enjoyed your album. It's great to have on when I'm balancing my checkbook."

I think the best way I can get that Eno definition of "ambient" to work for my musical goals is to acknowledge that my job as a composer - regardless of what genre I'm writing in - is to direct the listener's attention. In ambient music, I'm simply striving to direct their attention elsewhere. "Pay no attention to the sounds coming out of the speakers, nothing to see here!"

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I love the idea of functional background music...almost like adding dither to real life [sic]. One of my favorite -- I hesitate to call it a compliment, so let's say reactions -- to my original music was when I gave a copy of my first solo album to a pop singer friend. She only knew me from my pop/rock session work, but this album was mostly angular asymmetric post-prog/fusion and contemporary chamber music, very Arnold Schoenberg-meets-Frank Zappa wacky instrumentals. And I wasn't sure what she was gonna think of it, or if she'd even think it was music. But she told me "I really enjoyed your album. It's great to have on when I'm balancing my checkbook."

I think the best way I can get that Eno definition of "ambient" to work for my musical goals is to acknowledge that my job as a composer - regardless of what genre I'm writing in - is to direct the listener's attention. In ambient music, I'm simply striving to direct their attention elsewhere. "Pay no attention to the sounds coming out of the speakers, nothing to see here!"

Satie created "background music" . He said it was supposed to be musical wallpaper.

It even made him mad when people paid attention to his compositions made with that intent.
It was played for the first time in public in 1902 and the piece was called "furniture music"

Satie basically invented "ambient" before it was cool