Ampeg PF500/PF350 Pt II.5

[Freddels]

Congrats, Jimmy. I guess all that kissing up finally paid off.

Now we can hear what you think of the new PF combo as it compares to the old B15.

 

[jumbodbassman]

grats....

interesting you went with the 350

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

Congrats, Jimmy. I guess all that kissing up finally paid off.

Now we can hear what you think of the new PF combo as it compares to the old B15.

Good point, a true side by side...

 

[JimmyM]

grats....

interesting you went with the 350

Ya, I thought about the 500...the EQ on it is quite cool...but I really don't need 500w and I love the sound of the Micro VR, so why not save a few bucks?

 

[JimmyM]

Good point, a true side by side...

Well hey, toobz, ya know? But when i tried the cab, it sure sounded like what I hear out of the original cab. I'm quite interested in hearing the comparo my own self.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Congrats man. Report back on the comparison. All this talk about how they sound like the originals has me interested in picking up a PF115 to complement my PF-500 and act as an extension for my B15 should I need it.

 

[shredhead68]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on buying my first bass rig and I'm pretty much sold on the PF500. Was leaning toward getting a pair of PF210HE but all the love the PF115 cabs seem to get here on TB kinda gave me pause. Now I'm wondering if a pair of 115 cabs is the way to go. I'm brand new at all of this, so I wondered what you guys could tell me would be the major noticeable or appreciable differences between the two ? Someone told me that 10 inch speakers "push more air" than 15 inch speakers do. Now, a) I don't even really know what that means and b) wonder if it is even true? And again, am unclear what that would even mean to me in application ? Any input/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[60bass]

Well, as you might notice on my header, as of today there has been a slight change in status for me...PF rig, here I come!

Jimmy. Big congrats on the Ampeg endorsement. Just checked the thread and saw the post.

Keep Low

 

[JimmyM]

There's a lot more to moving air than speaker size. There is also cone movement (xmax). But if the cone movement of each is in proportion to each other, a 210 and a 115 will have about the same air movement.

I haven't been able to play both the PF115 and 210 side by side, but honestly, I didn't hear a whole lot of difference when I've played them. The PF210 has slightly higher low end specs than the 115, but they're both very B-15-like. I went with the 115 mostly out of tradition, but either would work well. I'd just advise you to get two of the same. I've heard of folks mixing them and liking the results, but the sound out of each is so similar to me that I don't see the point in mixing them. Maybe others feel more strongly about one or the other, but I loved them both and thought they both have the sound.

Oh, and thanks for the nice words, folks! I honestly didn't say nice things to weasel an endorsement from them but because I really like their products and direction. I'll darn sure take it, though, and consider it an honor to represent! Cliff, Roger, Stanley, Jimmy...

(ahem!)

 

[GregC]

Oh, and thanks for the nice words, folks! I honestly didn't say nice things to weasel an endorsement from them but because I really like their products and direction. I'll darn sure take it, though, and consider it an honor to represent! Cliff, Roger, Stanley, Jimmy...

(ahem!)

LOL. Congrats, Jimmy! Very cool. I'm looking forward to pics on Ampeg's home page of the James Brown doll with a Devo hat posed next to the PF gear.

 

[Duke21]

Ya, I thought about the 500...the EQ on it is quite cool...but I really don't need 500w and I love the sound of the Micro VR, so why not save a few bucks?

Congratulating on your new rig!

 

[Bassics101]

I haven't been able to play both the PF115 and 210 side by side, but honestly, I didn't hear a whole lot of difference when I've played them.

I did try them side-by-side, and did noticed a difference. Hopefully it wasn't just my imagination. I'd say the 210 was a cleaner, notes more well defined, but the 115 had more deep feel. More, well it said p bass and flats. I know this isn't being very precise, but there was quite a difference to me. I went with the 115. My only regret was that I didn't try the two together.

JimmyM, you posted that

I've heard of folks mixing them and liking the results, but the sound out of each is so similar to me that I don't see the point in mixing them.

Can you point me to where someone has reviewed that? (And I'll add my congrats too.) I'm curious about how that would sound. Maybe I should go back and try. I can see why someone would like to have both, but that would depend on how they work together, and many threads here say two of the same are probably better than mixing.

 

[rodl2005]

Ya, a real pity. You must feel so inadequate

I MEANT, that I couldn't post any cool lookin pics etc. ;D as mines a 7 pro, 'tis all.
Congrats on yours tho Jimmy.
I'll post a review of that over in the 7 pro thread

 

[JimmyM]

I did try them side-by-side, and did noticed a difference. Hopefully it wasn't just my imagination. I'd say the 210 was a cleaner, notes more well defined, but the 115 had more deep feel. More, well it said p bass and flats. I know this isn't being very precise, but there was quite a difference to me. I went with the 115. My only regret was that I didn't try the two together.

Well you may be right about that. Honestly, I'm just going by a quick first impression with each. I'm sure the differences would be more apparent to me in a direct AB, but without that benefit, I still stand by my review

JimmyM, you posted that

Can you point me to where someone has reviewed that? (And I'll add my congrats too.) I'm curious about how that would sound. Maybe I should go back and try. I can see why someone would like to have both, but that would depend on how they work together, and many threads here say two of the same are probably better than mixing.

It's somewhere buried in the other PF350/PF500 thread and I would have no idea where. Maybe whoever posted it will pipe up. And yes, while it varies from rig to rig how much, mixed cab rigs can lead to phasing problems. If the cabs have similar phase response, not so much, but if they don't you'll get quite a bit. Me, I like to play it safe.

 

[Bassics101]

I'm sure the differences would be more apparent to me in a direct AB, but without that benefit, I still stand by my review

I'm sure you would, and I would trust your description of the differences more than mine. Its been a couple of weeks since I did the A/B, and I was overcome by serious GAS at the time, knowing that I was leaving with one of the two. But without the A/B it wouldn't have been possible for me to consider differences.

 

[Bassflute]

There's a lot more to moving air than speaker size. There is also cone movement (xmax). But if the cone movement of each is in proportion to each other, a 210 and a 115 will have about the same air movement.

I haven't been able to play both the PF115 and 210 side by side, but honestly, I didn't hear a whole lot of difference when I've played them. The PF210 has slightly higher low end specs than the 115, but they're both very B-15-like. I went with the 115 mostly out of tradition, but either would work well. I'd just advise you to get two of the same. I've heard of folks mixing them and liking the results, but the sound out of each is so similar to me that I don't see the point in mixing them. Maybe others feel more strongly about one or the other, but I loved them both and thought they both have the sound.

Oh, and thanks for the nice words, folks! I honestly didn't say nice things to weasel an endorsement from them but because I really like their products and direction. I'll darn sure take it, though, and consider it an honor to represent! Cliff, Roger, Stanley, Jimmy...

(ahem!)

I have tried them side by side as well, and although the stats say the 2x10 is deeper, that ain't the way you hear it live. The 15 sounds marked deeper, requiring less bass EQ. They are both good cabinets, I like them BOTH better than the regular Ampeg cabs that are much more expensive. EVERYTHINGS better; the tweeter, crossover point, neither one of these cabs are boxy or honky, very well designed. But I'm definitely more impressed with the 15; deep and rich and warm, and you can coax hi-fi out of it depending on the tweeter positioning.

I did try them side-by-side, and did noticed a difference. Hopefully it wasn't just my imagination. I'd say the 210 was a cleaner, notes more well defined, but the 115 had more deep feel. More, well it said p bass and flats. I know this isn't being very precise, but there was quite a difference to me. I went with the 115. My only regret was that I didn't try the two together.

JimmyM, you posted that

Can you point me to where someone has reviewed that? (And I'll add my congrats too.) I'm curious about how that would sound. Maybe I should go back and try. I can see why someone would like to have both, but that would depend on how they work together, and many threads here say two of the same are probably better than mixing.

I also tried them together, and while it was OK, I think I'd go for the two 15's, personally, although you would have quite a convincing and light 4x10 system if you went with the other one.

Well you may be right about that. Honestly, I'm just going by a quick first impression with each. I'm sure the differences would be more apparent to me in a direct AB, but without that benefit, I still stand by my review


It's somewhere buried in the other PF350/PF500 thread and I would have no idea where. Maybe whoever posted it will pipe up. And yes, while it varies from rig to rig how much, mixed cab rigs can lead to phasing problems. If the cabs have similar phase response, not so much, but if they don't you'll bet quite a bit. Me, I like to play it safe.

And congrats on your endorsement deal! It's about time you started schmoozing like the rest of us. They like to give pros a break and get their gear out there, even if you're just a local hero like me...I rarely pay retail anymore on anything. Guerrilla marketing, I think they call it, but hey, I'll take 'Artist Pricing' anyday!

Also, I tried the 15" cab with a 200 watt Orange tube head (awesome!), really great sounding rig, and with an older SVT from the crappy years (very heavy and surprisingly whimpy sounding next to the Orange), as well as the new Yorkville all-tube 300 watt head (quite awesome, actually, better than the SVT but not as good as the Orange), and with an SVT 8pro (nah!), and a Mesa Carbine 6 (YES!). Now THAT would make a nice fliptop. Wonder if a Carbine 9 would fit?...hmmm....TOM!

Great cabinet that 15, I like it a lot! Have to try it with the PF500 when it comes in finally. Sounded amazing with that Orange head...too bad that things so...orange!

 

[tombowlus]

Well, I tried cramming the 7Pro into the PF115 with the lid off, and sure enough, even without feet, that tweeter magnet is gonna hit. It's less than a 1/4" off, though. I do think that inverting the baffle might work, but then you'd have the tweeter on the bottom, which I don't think would be ideal. If you don't have an absolute requirement to be able to use that fliptop lid to mount your head, I still say that the 7Pro with one or two PF115's is a slammin' rig!

Regarding the PF115 vs PF210, I can't add much more to what's already been said, but the primary impression I received after playing them at NAMM was that the 115 had a bit more going on the midrange, and it seemed more willing to "growl." Of course, all of the cabs at Winter NAMM were the ported prototypes - except for that one sealed PF115. I'm quite fond of the PF115, even with other heads.

 

[Bassflute]

How hard could that be? Patch it, make a new hole...
Got a Carbine kicking around?

Cheers,
Cameron

Well, I tried cramming the 7Pro into the PF115 with the lid off, and sure enough, even without feet, that tweeter magnet is gonna hit. It's less than a 1/4" off, though. I do think that inverting the baffle might work, but then you'd have the tweeter on the bottom, which I don't think would be ideal. If you don't have an absolute requirement to be able to use that fliptop lid to mount your head, I still say that the 7Pro with one or two PF115's is a slammin' rig!

Regarding the PF115 vs PF210, I can't add much more to what's already been said, but the primary impression I received after playing them at NAMM was that the 115 had a bit more going on the midrange, and it seemed more willing to "growl." Of course, all of the cabs at Winter NAMM were the ported prototypes - except for that one sealed PF115. I'm quite fond of the PF115, even with other heads.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

Well, I tried cramming the 7Pro into the PF115 with the lid off, and sure enough, even without feet, that tweeter magnet is gonna hit. It's less than a 1/4" off, though. I do think that inverting the baffle might work, but then you'd have the tweeter on the bottom, which I don't think would be ideal. If you don't have an absolute requirement to be able to use that fliptop lid to mount your head, I still say that the 7Pro with one or two PF115's is a slammin' rig!

Regarding the PF115 vs PF210, I can't add much more to what's already been said, but the primary impression I received after playing them at NAMM was that the 115 had a bit more going on the midrange, and it seemed more willing to "growl." Of course, all of the cabs at Winter NAMM were the ported prototypes - except for that one sealed PF115. I'm quite fond of the PF115, even with other heads.

Oh well...

But still, I think next year I'll spring for one. Maybe I'll get an amp bag too. And It'll be nice to have the back up amp flipped away...

 

[JimmyM]

I have tried them side by side as well, and although the stats say the 2x10 is deeper, that ain't the way you hear it live. The 15 sounds marked deeper, requiring less bass EQ. They are both good cabinets, I like them BOTH better than the regular Ampeg cabs that are much more expensive. EVERYTHINGS better; the tweeter, crossover point, neither one of these cabs are boxy or honky, very well designed. But I'm definitely more impressed with the 15; deep and rich and warm, and you can coax hi-fi out of it depending on the tweeter positioning.

Ya, agreed with all of that. Except the stats do say the 115 is a little deeper...the 210 is 3db down at 53hz and 10db down at 38hz, while the 115 is 3db down at 50hz and 10db down at 35hz. The tweeter was the real surprise. I'm so used to crap piezos that I never knew a compression driver could make that big a difference. There's a possibility I might even use the tweeter. At -6db, of course, but still, it really doesn't make it sound tweetery...just gives the highs a tiny bit of air that doesn't make it sound all plinky and overly crisp. Even full-on isn't bad, though it's not really my thing.

And congrats on your endorsement deal! It's about time you started schmoozing like the rest of us. They like to give pros a break and get their gear out there, even if you're just a local hero like me...I rarely pay retail anymore on anything. Guerrilla marketing, I think they call it, but hey, I'll take 'Artist Pricing' anyday!

Right on and thanks, Cam! Can't say I was ever into getting endorsements. I halfheartedly took a stab at it a couple times, but when I found out what you had to do to get endorsements, it turned me right off of them because there's no way I was going to put together $2000 worth of promo packs just to get a discount on gear I liked. I like it this way much better because it didn't cost me anything and I did everything I would have normally done anyway

Also, I tried the 15" cab with a 200 watt Orange tube head (awesome!), really great sounding rig, and with an older SVT from the crappy years (very heavy and surprisingly whimpy sounding next to the Orange),

I wonder why that was...honestly, I've yet to play a bad SVT that wasn't broken or out of spec with the bias, and I use rented SVT's all the time. Even the CL, which doesn't get quite the love that the VR or vintage heads get from most, sounds awesome to me. Oh well, if they pleased everyone, there would only be one amp on the market but I have to think maybe it had too cold or hot a bias or something not quite right.

as well as the new Yorkville all-tube 300 watt head (quite awesome, actually, better than the SVT but not as good as the Orange), and with an SVT 8pro (nah!), and a Mesa Carbine 6 (YES!). Now THAT would make a nice fliptop. Wonder if a Carbine 9 would fit?...hmmm....TOM!

A fliptop with a Mesa head? SACRILEGE!