Ampeg SVT 50th Anniversary Edtition

[JimmyM]

Then why are you arguing about it so vehemently.

Look your right, I don't have a dog in the fight, but IMHO your not making matters better by essentially telling people they have no right to be frustrated. Some people have delayed buying needed amps and have money tied up in this. I think they have every right to be frustrated.

Also I believe you have said the Yamaha intends to keep their hands off Ampeg. It's very likely that Ampeg has fully developed the product and is ready to go, but Yamaha is not ready to greenlight production.

Nope, never said that except about the first year or so while they evaluate the product lines.

Unfortunately this sort of situation would cause political pressure that would prevent Ampeg from releasing statements to explain why the amp is delayed and when it will actually be released. I.E. they don't want to upset the new top dog by making public statements that could cause customers to form a negative view of the parent company. This sort of political maneuvering goes on all the time at various levels within a large tiered organization. Also Yamaha may not have made a decision yet, so Ampeg may have no idea when the amp will actually be released.

I have no doubt that successfully introducing a new product in the middle of a corporate takeover can be a herculean and vexing undertaking. From a marketing standpoint I think the 50th AV SVT was probably a great idea. Unfortunate that the 50th AV occurred while Yamaha was taking over as the parent company. The amp is probably a victim of the butterfly effect, but the butterfly is a gigantic corporate entity.

I agree that we are probably just going to have to wait and see what is going to happen. Unfortunately that means people who are interested in the amp will continue to be frustrated.

For the record, any frustration I feel is purely out of empathy for others. I have all the SVTs I need.

Any frustration I feel is because way too many people comment without having any idea what a large undertaking it is to transfer a major amp brand and all that goes into it to another company. The 50th wasn't the only thing on their plate...not like they had nothing but time and resources to devote to it. And of course I understand that it's been a while. But what happens if they put a product out and people end up returning it due to problems? You all ought to be happy someone cares enough to go the extra distance to try and make sure nobody has problems with them.

That's the impression I get from a lot of Japenese companies. What concerns me is that Japanese design in general doesn't abide by the "if it's not broke don't fix it" rule. My speculation is that this philosophy makes it very hard to fix or restore anything beyond a third party vendor.

I doubt they are following the MTI process of acquiring a bunch of parts and assembling them in a facelift package. Who knows? Your question of parts acquisition and support deserves thoughtful consideration. Yahama is going to have to find a way to simplify Ampeg's offerings into a modern reliable cart blanc package.

The class D PF series never made sense to me when they rolled out the 7pro and neo cab designs. Pick one, get it right, and stand behind it. I simply would've offered a beefy P-XXT model as a high-quality flip-top variant akin the B-15 and called it a day. Having three variants of the PF series and two of the PT series doesn't make sense. The HLF cabs are outdated as well, and Ampeg should just focus on the pro neo series based on player needs.

Ampeg is unwisely committing its resources to redundant and outdated products.

So you think it's a bad idea to fix what ain't broke and then complain that their entire product line needs to be revamped specifically to fix what ain't broke?

They're redundant and outdated products that sell by the butt-ton. If it sells, it ain't outdated. And most of Ampeg's clientele by far buys it because they like what Ampeg brought to the table in the 60's and 70's and doesn't want it to change. They may want it delivered with newer tech, but they don't want it changed very much. There's plenty of places to go if you don't want Ampeg-sounding gear already. Ampeg fans want Ampeg to be Ampeg.

 

[Raw N Low]

So you think it's a bad idea to fix what ain't broke and then complain that their entire product line needs to be revamped specifically to fix what ain't broke?

They're redundant and outdated products that sell by the butt-ton. If it sells, it ain't outdated. And most of Ampeg's clientele by far buys it because they like what Ampeg brought to the table in the 60's and 70's and doesn't want it to change. They may want it delivered with newer tech, but they don't want it changed very much. There's plenty of places to go if you don't want Ampeg-sounding gear already. Ampeg fans want Ampeg to be Ampeg.

The context of my comment on design principles was in regards to most Japanese products and trying to restore or acquire replacement parts. Needless change does not bring about stabilization, it also doesn't mean you can't cut down on waste by removing redundant products to make room for innovation. I don't agree entirely that current customers are buying current offerings based on what they had 50 years ago. Those products are long gone, and the SVT/810 combo is probably the most iconic pairing in the catalog. That's not speaking to the rest of the product lineup.

I'd wager that most of the HE and HLF cabs on the second hand market weren't purchased new and are more than 10 years old. Ampeg simply sells because the name carries weight. No doubt multiple companies were aware of this when the company was purchased and sold numerous times. Nobody is wanting Ampeg to change their sound. However, player needs have changed, and player are paying top dollar for quality, lightweight, and great sounding gear. Ampeg has tons of IP's they can bring back in a new form factor to address those needs. Personally, I don't mind hauling my heavy gear but, heavy inefficient gear isn't going to bring home the bacon.

As far as fans wanting Ampeg to be Ampeg? Well, it's hard to maintain your roots when multiple parent companies have been involved and subsidiaries share resources. Respectfully, just how you felt about products like the B2RE, SVT-350, and the 400T is exactly how I feel about some of the current offerings.

 

[JimmyM]

The context of my comment on design principles was in regards to most Japanese products and trying to restore or acquire replacement parts. Needless change does not bring about stabilization, it also doesn't mean you can't cut down on waste by removing redundant products to make room for innovation. I don't agree entirely that current customers are buying current offerings based on what they had 50 years ago. Those products are long gone, and the SVT/810 combo is probably the most iconic pairing in the catalog. That's not speaking to the rest of the product lineup.

I'd wager that most of the HE and HLF cabs on the second hand market weren't purchased new and are more than 10 years old. Ampeg simply sells because the name carries weight. No doubt multiple companies were aware of this when the company was purchased and sold numerous times. Nobody is wanting Ampeg to change their sound. However, player needs have changed, and player are paying top dollar for quality, lightweight, and great sounding gear. Ampeg has tons of IP's they can bring back in a new form factor to address those needs. Personally, I don't mind hauling my heavy gear but, heavy inefficient gear isn't going to bring home the bacon.

As far as fans wanting Ampeg to be Ampeg? Well, it's hard to maintain your roots when multiple parent companies have been involved and subsidiaries share resources. Respectfully, just how you felt about products like the B2RE, SVT-350, and the 400T is exactly how I feel about some of the current offerings.

Well there's plenty of other places to go to get amps that don't sound like Ampeg already. And 410's are still the most popular cabs out there, and if nobody was buying them, they wouldn't still be offered by pretty much every bass amp company in the business.

As for saying that Ampeg still sells because of the name, I guess that's why the Ampeg products that don't sound like Ampeg are long disco'd I don't mind a little change here and there, and I don't mind light gear, but while I'm sure your ideas would go over for some other company, I'm not the least bit interested in products that aren't what I love about Ampeg, and I am by far not alone. Like I said, this is what Ampeg fans want, and there's plenty of other places to get what you're looking for without ruining my Ampeg

 

[Raw N Low]

Well there's plenty of other places to go to get amps that don't sound like Ampeg already. And 410's are still the most popular cabs out there, and if nobody was buying them, they wouldn't still be offered by pretty much every bass amp company in the business.

As for saying that Ampeg still sells because of the name, I guess that's why the Ampeg products that don't sound like Ampeg are long disco'd I don't mind a little change here and there, and I don't mind light gear, but while I'm sure your ideas would go over for some other company, I'm not the least bit interested in products that aren't what I love about Ampeg, and I am by far not alone. Like I said, this is what Ampeg fans want, and there's plenty of other places to get what you're looking for without ruining my Ampeg

Well thank goodness I stocked up on the 12 Ampeg amps I wanted the most and the cabs to boot.

As an Ampeg fan (who's not alone), let's just say not all Ampeg supporters feel as you do. True, the models you have a disdain for did get 86'd but, I'm prepared to eat crow if some of these other models stay around for another 5-10 years.

I'm sure when people got news that Yamaha bought Ampeg, a good majority of fans were eager to see "new" products with a high quality ceiling. Not to derail the thread (and I respect how you feel), but the frustration is understandable.

 

[JimmyM]

Well thank goodness I stocked up on the 12 Ampeg amps I wanted the most and the cabs to boot.

As an Ampeg fan (who's not alone), let's just say not all Ampeg supporters feel as you do. True, the models you have a disdain for did get 86'd but, I'm prepared to eat crow if some of these other models stay around for another 5-10 years.

I'm sure when people got news that Yamaha bought Ampeg, a good majority of fans were eager to see "new" products with a high quality ceiling. Not to derail the thread (and I respect how you feel), but the frustration is understandable.

Well that will happen, I'm sure, but they were in no hurry to do it until they evaluated the current lineup in depth, and then the corona virus hit and pushed back things even more. Strange times we live in...nothing we can do about them, either. But don't ruin my Ampeg

 

[Jim C]

And 410's are still the most popular cabs out there, and if nobody was buying them, they wouldn't still be offered by pretty much every bass amp company in the business.

I don't think the majority of bass cabinets sold are 4x10's, but not being the most popular is not a reason to discontinue them. It could be that the most bass cabinets built for live performance and still in service are 4x10's.
Not sure how any of this can be proven without sales records though.
All of this really comes down to speculation.

 

[Mastermold]

As an aside, we know what the Covid shutdowns have done to live music events this year. As more states open up and live music comes back I'm expecting so will increased demand for SVTs. Yamaha was already taking its time but could be even more knowing there is no need to rush.

 

[Wasnex]

Nope, never said that except about the first year or so while they evaluate the product lines.


Any frustration I feel is because way too many people comment without having any idea what a large undertaking it is to transfer a major amp brand and all that goes into it to another company. The 50th wasn't the only thing on their plate...not like they had nothing but time and resources to devote to it. And of course I understand that it's been a while. But what happens if they put a product out and people end up returning it due to problems? You all ought to be happy someone cares enough to go the extra distance to try and make sure nobody has problems with them.

Things may have changed by now, but I am certain you said Yamaha intended to be hands off.

Do you know for a fact that the delay is because they can't get the design dialed in. I find the claim astounding but you have made it repeatedly. Seriously it's 50 year old tech that is well sorted.

You have also repeatedly inferred that people should just be happy that Ampeg is on our side and taking their time to make sure things are done right. Again, is this a fact or your opinion? IMHO it comes off as happy talk and I don't think most people buy it. Actually, I think it makes a fair amount of people angry, because it feels like you are trying to handle them, and essentially trying to tell them they should not be frustrated.

WTH gives the right to tell people how to feel? I think people have a good reason to feel jerked around and frustrated. This is actually the only reason I have chosen to respond at all. Because you seem to be trying to handle people and also seem to be playing the victim card. That was some beautiful pearl clutching you pulled earlier . Mad skills, but sorry if I find it bit distasteful .

Earlier today (or perhaps yesterday) I believe you said you don't actually know anything because your not in the loop. If this is the case you're really not in any sort of position to claim Ampeg is on our side. IMHO, this sort of perceived inaccuracy is why it was inferred that you don't know what you are talking about.

If you want to be taken seriously and instill trust, give us the facts and keep the rest to yourself. If you want to share your opinion that is fine, but everyone else is also free to share their opinions as well...even if they want to say they are frustrated by the delay. I don't think it's really appropriate for you to respond by saying "settle down" and try to ram it down our throats that Ampeg is perfect and altruistically looking after our needs. I love my Ampegs, but it's pretty obvious the company is not perfect.

 

[JimmyM]

Things may have changed by now, but I am certain you said Yamaha intended to be hands off.

Do you know for a fact that the delay is because they can't get the design dialed in. I find the claim astounding but you have made it repeatedly. Seriously it's 50 year old tech that is well sorted.

You have also repeatedly inferred that people should just be happy that Ampeg is on our side and taking their time to make sure things are done right. Again, is this a fact or your opinion? IMHO it comes off as happy talk and I don't think most people buy it. Actually, I think it makes a fair amount of people angry, because it feels like you are trying to handle them, and essentially trying to tell them they should not be frustrated.

WTH gives the right to tell people how to feel? I think people have a good reason to feel jerked around and frustrated. This is actually the only reason I have chosen to respond at all. Because you seem to be trying to handle people and also seem to be playing the victim card. That was some beautiful pearl clutching you pulled earlier . Mad skills, but sorry if I find it bit distasteful .

Earlier today (or perhaps yesterday) I believe you said you don't actually know anything because your not in the loop. If this is the case you're really not in any sort of position to claim Ampeg is on our side. IMHO, this sort of perceived inaccuracy is why it was inferred that you don't know what you are talking about.

If you want to be taken seriously and instill trust, give us the facts and keep the rest to yourself. If you want to share your opinion that is fine, but everyone else is also free to share their opinions as well...even if they want to say they are frustrated by the delay. I don't think it's really appropriate for you to respond by saying "settle down" and try to ram it down our throats that Ampeg is perfect and altruistically looking after our needs. I love my Ampegs, but it's pretty obvious the company is not perfect.

Whatever, dude.

 

[Wasnex]

Whatever, dude.

Agreed.

 

[Jim C]

* Things may have changed by now, but I am certain you said Yamaha intended to be hands off.

* Do you know for a fact that the delay is because they can't get the design dialed in. I find the claim astounding but you have made it repeatedly. Seriously it's 50 year old tech that is well sorted.

* Actually, I think it makes a fair amount of people angry, because it feels like you are trying to handle them, and essentially trying to tell them they should not be frustrated. WTH gives the right to tell people how to feel?

*Because you seem to be trying to handle people and also seem to be playing the victim card.

* Earlier today (or perhaps yesterday) I believe you said you don't actually know anything because your not in the loop.

* IMHO, this sort of perceived inaccuracy is why it was inferred that you don't know what you are talking about.

* If you want to be taken seriously and instill trust, give us the facts and keep the rest to yourself.

Well said and an opinion I agree with.
When one acts as a spokesman for a company, statements are supported with facts and backed by that company. I have seen neither. Reminds me of "just because you say it doesn't make it true".

We all have opinions and sharing them makes message boards enlightening.
Interesting that Dino and Hodgy have remained silent on recent Ampeg / Yamaha discussions even though they are employees. Clearly Yamaha prefers it this way as I believe both of these gentleman are truly interested in producing great products as well as supporting their users. Communication is key to achieve both of these goals IMO.

Lastly, perhaps the absence of any authorized factory updates is due to uncertainty of what to do next. No shame in this (C-19 or not) although (and assuming my opinion is true), it would be comforting to hear this from the source.

We may be looked upon as some geeky little message board in America by corporate, but I believe that great products and equally great communication is what made a tiny little company from Linden, NJ the worldwide leader in bass guitar amplification for decades. Here's to hoping they can return to this position as the rest of the industry moves forward.

 

[JimmyM]

So still hanging on to the "I'm a liar" crap, eh? OK, good...I always like to know where I stand with people on here so I can adjust my level of caring accordingly.

 

[Jim C]

So still hanging on to the "I'm a liar" crap, eh? OK, good...I always like to know where I stand with people on here so I can adjust my level of caring accordingly.

I have never called anyone on this board a liar and am surprised that you are hanging onto this.
Everyone has their opinions which is cool.
I am of the opinion that when one makes bold statements about companies it should be backed up with facts, or expressed as an opinion.
Wasnex covered this more eloquently than I ever could in post #468.

 

[JimmyM]

I have never called anyone on this board a liar and am surprised that you are hanging onto this.
Everyone has their opinions which is cool.
I am of the opinion that when one makes bold statements about companies it should be backed up with facts, or expressed as an opinion.
Wasnex covered this more eloquently than I ever could in post #468.

The two of you can sugarcoat it all you want, but the bottom line is you both called me a liar.

 

[uncle woody]

playing the victim card.

 

[Wasnex]

So still hanging on to the "I'm a liar" crap, eh? OK, good...I always like to know where I stand with people on here so I can adjust my level of caring accordingly.

I would like to say that I am not calling you a liar.

 

[Wasnex]

The two of you can sugarcoat it all you want, but the bottom line is you both called me a liar.

Not really. I think you view Ampeg and Yamaha with so called "Rose Colored Glasses." Basically in your mind neither company could possibly do anything wrong, because they are so freaking awesome! It's not a lie if you believe it, but it feels sort of like you are gas lighting us even though I think you are sincere.

 

[Wasnex]

@JimmyM , and if you will accept it, here's my apology. I am sorry for hurting your feelings.

Your awesome man! Go Ampeg!

 

[Jim C]

@JimmyM , and if you will accept it, here's my apology. I am sorry for hurting your feelings.
Your awesome man! Go Ampeg!

The same for me.

 

[JimmyM]

I would like to say that I am not calling you a liar.

"Things may have changed by now, but I am certain you said Yamaha intended to be hands off."

"Do you know for a fact that the delay is because they can't get the design dialed in. I find the claim astounding but you have made it repeatedly. Seriously it's 50 year old tech that is well sorted."

I call that walking right up to the line but not stepping over.

BTW, Jess Oliver was tweaking the B-15 design right up until he had a stroke and had to retire. The SVT has been redesigned many times over the years. Ask Fender's or Marshall's engineers how many times their amps have been tweaked and redesigned. This 50th is also somewhat of a redesign. I would think that as much as you seem to know about how amps work, you of all people should get that revisions occur over the years. Astounding? The only thing I find astounding is that you find the idea that Yamaha would want to tweak the design a bit astounding. To me, that's just spoiling for an argument.

EDIT: Just saw your nice posts...of course I accept the apologies. But after all this time, the one thing you guys should know about me is I don't knowingly lie, and I was pretty taken aback by this.