Ampeg SVT 50th Anniversary Edtition

[Jim C]

Revisiting this post because I thought we were fairly tight as far as Talkbass goes, and to get a response basically calling me a liar like this coming from you sucks. Let's address it in more detail...

I'm also not the least bit shy about telling people to take a hike when they screw with me, and you are screwing with me. Only thing stopping me from giving you the heave ho is previous interactions that I'd consider positive. But this came out of absolutely nowhere, and if you think I'm happily going to take being blindsided like this, think again.

No disrespect intended but you do position yourself as a person in the know attached to a huge multi-national company. You have maintained your position regarding QC from about 200 posts back as well as in other threads so these statements have been very clear and consistent.
That's cool, but your words carry a lot more impact when claims ares backed in facts. You are an endorser for the company, no one questions that. I draw the parallel that as an endorser, you represent the company's culture, goals, and direction
It also suggests that any statements made reflect the position of the parent company.

I did contact my local Ampeg dealer and authorized repair shop to see if they had any information about what was ahead as well as this particular product about 6 months ago. Neither had any insight.
Their FAQ page has no mention of MI amplifiers nor does anything come up when you search under "Ampeg" other than a post from 2011 that talks about recording a B-15. FAQs - Yamaha - United States
I've worked for corporate America; not as big as Yamaha but a $4B dollar company and I think I might understand just a few of the logistics and issues ahead. My sister was CEO for a $7B company that she turned around. I have a small business and I'm estimating a project this week that will be approx $1.4M so not a stranger to running a small business and have a business degree from University of Maryland.
Lastly, I have no information on the previous parent companies but I don't know that it's fair to call out a previous CEO. As I recall Ampeg was not privately held then and the guy might have been controlled by the board of directors. Maybe just trying to hold onto his job. Just speculation but a possibility.
Please accept this as an olive branch and sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

 

[bobyoung53]

I will just add what little I know about Yamaha to this discussion. I owned two Yamaha acoustic guitars many years ago and they were both very good sounding and playing guitars with great attention to detail. I have never owned a Yamaha bass but have picked them up here and there, and again no matter the price point on them they were nicely made and good playing basses so I trust Yamaha and I have every reason to believe that when they do release the new SVT it will be just as good as any other piece of Yamaha equipment I have ever owned or tried out.

 

[Robal]

I hope we do see the new SVT in stores later this year, perhaps aptly renamed the Fifty-First Anniversary (1969-2020) Edition.

Does anyone know where in the USA these Ampeg amps are being built? Calabasas, CA (home of Yamaha Guitar Group) or elsewhere? In a Yamaha-owned factory or OEM?

 

[gwangi]

The question is are they being assembled in the U.S.A., I'm only speculating but most likely the parts are made outside of the US and then brought in an assembled in the US.
The only reason I'm saying is the Heritage SVT was done like that, some people thought it was entirely made in the U.S.A. but it was assembled in the U.S.A. with the parts brought in.

 

[bigbottomend]

The little model..

3D printed and painted, no one sells them im afraid.

 

[JimmyM]

No disrespect intended but you do position yourself as a person in the know attached to a huge multi-national company. You have maintained your position regarding QC from about 200 posts back as well as in other threads so these statements have been very clear and consist
That's cool, but your words carry a lot more impact when claims ares backed in facts. You are an endorser for the company, no one questions that. I draw the parallel that as an endorser, you represent the company's culture, goals, and direction
It also suggests that any statements made reflect the position of the parent company.

I don't even know what that means, nor does it have any basis in truth. I know very little about Yamaha other than knowing that whatever they make from MI to boat engines is pretty top notch. And I know that they didn't get that rep by putting out stuff that they didn't think was ready for release. But I do know a tiny bit about what's going on with the 50th SVT delays. And I know that if they were abandoning the 50th SVT, it would quietly go away and wouldn't be featured prominently on Ampeg.com's home page or social media pages to this day.

So why, pray tell, if you think I carry all this weight as an endorser, what would be in it for me to lie about them holding up the release of the 50th over wanting to tweak the innards a bit before they put it out, and further delays by the lockdown? Don't you think word would get back to them and I'd hear about it if it was false? I didn't just pull that out of my ass, you know? Now YOUR theory that marketing killed the project when it's still the first thing you see when you go to Ampeg.com...does that make the least bit of sense? What makes more sense? What I said or what you said?

I did contact my local Ampeg dealer and authorized repair shop to see if they had any information about what was ahead as well as this particular product about 6 months ago. Neither had any insight.
Their FAQ page has no mention of MI amplifiers nor does anything come up when you search under "Ampeg" other than a post from 2011 that talks about recording a B-15. FAQs - Yamaha - United States

Not seeing the relevance. Maybe those folks you talked to didn't ask.

I've worked for corporate America; not as big as Yamaha but a $4B dollar company and I think I might understand just a few of the logistics and issues ahead. My sister was CEO for a $7B company that she turned around. I have a small business and I'm estimating a project this week that will be approx $1.4M so not a stranger to running a small business and have a business degree from University of Maryland.
Lastly, I have no information on the previous parent companies but I don't know that it's fair to call out a previous CEO. As I recall Ampeg was not privately held then and the guy might have been controlled by the board of directors. Maybe just trying to hold onto his job. Just speculation but a possibility.
Please accept this as an olive branch and sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

Apology accepted. However, judging by how low Ampeg's rep got by 2008, the stories Jerrold Tiers had about him flat out lying to SLM employees about keeping them on only to fire all but Dino and a couple other guys (who got fired soon after other than Dino), the stories of endorsers fed up with how he was running the company and treating them like they didn't matter, and the stories of some employees who worked through his era and lived to tell about it, with nary a single one saying what a good company leader he was, I feel pretty comfortable putting the blame for the image problems they developed at his feet. And everyone at LOUD knew I referred to him as the former head idiot, and not one of them ever asked me to stop saying it.

 

[JimmyM]

3D printed and painted, no one sells them im afraid.

Oh, THOSE little SVT's...I thought Bri was referring to the Micro VR. Yeah, those little SVT's were 3d printed by Mark Gandenberger of Vintage-Blue, there might have been 3 or 4 of them tops, most were given to certain Ampeg employees as little thank-yous for the business over the years, and if I'm not mistaken they were hand painted and pretty work intensive all the way around.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

My uneducated guess is that Covid-19 has slowed or halted manufacturing, both in China and in California. And it’s also most likely affected the supply chain from China to the U.S., for the various parts needed to manufacture or assemble the units.

Then, I’m thinking Yamaha probably had plans to send completed units out on tour with some of their Artists, to check the durability and reliability in real world applications, before releasing them to the general public. To my knowledge, all of the major concert tours have been cancelled as a result of Covid-19, so that’s currently a no-go.

If I had one pre-ordered I’d be going nuts waiting to receive it. But I think I’d also be happy that Yamaha is going the extra mile to make sure it’s going to be awesome in every respect, before they release it.

 

[Robal]

JimmyM: Are you able to say where in the U.S. Yamaha is assembling the Heritage line of Ampeg amps?

 

[JimmyM]

JimmyM: Are you able to say where in the U.S. Yamaha is assembling the Heritage line of Ampeg amps?

I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure it'll be in Calabasas.

 

[GregC]

Yamaha, the top music instrument company by revenue in the world, acquired Ampeg more than 2 years ago. Yamaha released a detailed instruction manual for the 50th Anniversary SVT in 2019 and has had demos of the amp at 2019 and 2020 Winter NAMM and online for a long time. With all its resources, Yamaha held up release for this flagship product more than a year to "tweak a few things"? Really?

Just to add to what's been said since, it's a tough thing from a timing standpoint. While the announcement of the deal was in early May 2018, the release mentioned that (as should be expected in any deal like this) there would be a transition period of several months. I'm sure it took time for Yamaha to figure out if they wanted to restructure any parts of Ampeg, who they needed to keep or move to a different office, etc.
And on the back end of that time period, China (which is no doubt providing at least some of the parts) and Japan (where the parent compoany is, of course) have seen Covid 19 cases for more than four months. Couple those two periods together and that's at least 7-8 months where very little is probably getting done regarding the amp.

 

[Jim C]

"JimmyM, post: 24031609
I know very little about Yamaha other than knowing that whatever they make from MI to boat engines is pretty top notch.

OK

But I do know a tiny bit about what's going on with the 50th SVT delays.

OK

And I know that if they were abandoning the 50th SVT, it would quietly go away and wouldn't be featured prominently on Ampeg.com's home page or social media pages to this day.

OK

So why, pray tell, if you think I carry all this weight as an endorser...

I don't

I didn't just pull that out of my ass, you know?

OK, and perhaps I didn't read something that backs up this opinion. Yamaha's MI division doesn't seem to acknowledge Ampeg's existence on their FAQ page; perhaps I was on the wrong section

Not seeing the relevance. Maybe those folks you talked to didn't ask.

Washington Music Center was once the largest music store in America and Pro Tech is a pretty big repair house for every major amp and keyboard manufacturer I can think of, but understood that the dealers and repair shops may not be privy to any info either.

Apology accepted.

Cool![/QUOTE]

 

[RoketRdr]

"JimmyM, post: 24031609
I know very little about Yamaha other than knowing that whatever they make from MI to boat engines is pretty top notch.

OK

But I do know a tiny bit about what's going on with the 50th SVT delays.

OK

And I know that if they were abandoning the 50th SVT, it would quietly go away and wouldn't be featured prominently on Ampeg.com's home page or social media pages to this day.

OK

So why, pray tell, if you think I carry all this weight as an endorser...

I don't

I didn't just pull that out of my ass, you know?

OK, and perhaps I didn't read something that backs up this opinion. Yamaha's MI division doesn't seem to acknowledge Ampeg's existence on their FAQ page; perhaps I was on the wrong section

Not seeing the relevance. Maybe those folks you talked to didn't ask.

Washington Music Center was once the largest music store in America and Pro Tech is a pretty big repair house for every major amp and keyboard manufacturer I can think of, but understood that the dealers and repair shops may not be privy to any info either.

Apology accepted.

Cool!

[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with Jim C. I've designed, developed, R&D'd, prototyped and brought to production....numerous very complex tool systems utilized in the oil/gas industry, far more complex than a guitar amp, and most of them done in 18 months +/- 2-3 months. That's from concept to market deployment. I will give them the COVID set back for launch but taking over a year to do some "tweaks" is absolutely ridiculous. Its beyond comprehension for a very simple product that was replicating both the Ampeg and Magnavox channels from the early days and supposedly was already done. Yamaha decided to delay the completed amp so THEY could "tweak" it??? And it takes over a year to "tweak" circuits that have been available for decades???? Yeah...um....BS.

 

[Wasnex]

I have to agree with Jim C. I've designed, developed, R&D'd, prototyped and brought to production....numerous very complex tool systems utilized in the oil/gas industry, far more complex than a guitar amp, and most of them done in 18 months +/- 2-3 months. That's from concept to market deployment. I will give them the COVID set back for launch but taking over a year to do some "tweaks" is absolutely ridiculous. Its beyond comprehension for a very simple product that was replicating both the Ampeg and Magnavox channels from the early days and supposedly was already done. Yamaha decided to delay the completed amp so THEY could "tweak" it??? And it takes over a year to "tweak" circuits that have been available for decades???? Yeah...um....BS.

If the amp qualifies as a new model I believe it would have to go through certification. Also since Yamaha has just taken over, they have to make a myriad of decisions on supply chain and the manufacturing process. I highly doubt the problem has anything to do with circuit design, and suspect it is much further down the manufacturing process. My suspicion is it's more about economics than anything else. Have any new SVTs been made since Yamaha took over, or are they still selling through NOS? If they are not making any SVTs yet, then that is probably why they have not made the 50th AV yet.

My suspicion all along has been that the 50th AV is the just an SVT VR with some very minor circuit changes, a special badge on the back, 6550s with special embossing, and a bit of extra etching on the front panel. Overall my impression is they worked a bunch of people into a feeding frenzy, but most of it is marketing hype. Then for whatever reason they have only delivered vapor ware. There have been plenty of other companies who have angered their customers by releasing vaporware!

At one time the commemorative badge for the back of the amp showed 1969-2019.

It seems pretty clear that the intent was to release the amp in 2019, and we are long past that.

This is the current badge shown on the Ampeg website.

Probably a good idea to not call attention to that actual dates of the anniversary anymore.

I think Yamaha makes some great gear and they also make some garbage. I don't get the impression that the company does a great job of supporting some of their gear. I bought a used Yamaha TRB6P in mid 90s and it was missing knob. At this time the bass was still a current model, so you would think it would be easy to buy a replacement knob from an authorized dealer.

The Yamaha dealers I spoke too in Germany were not able to help me, and when I got back to the states, I had the same experience there. All of the vendors told me it was difficult getting parts for Yamaha instruments. After wasting several months with dealers, I started making phone calls and eventually contacted someone way up in the food chain who took pity on me and found a way to get me the knob. It took a couple of follow ups but he came through in the end.

In contrast it's been pretty easy getting replacement encoders for Yamaha mixing LS9 consoles....so I guess my experience with Yamaha is mixed.

As far as this fiasco with the 50th AV SVT. I understand that sometimes crap happens and releases don't go as scheduled. The part that I find unreasonable is the company's lack of transparency and communication. Several months ago vendors were publishing release dates, then the release dates were repeatedly pushed, and now there are no release dates. Most of this happened long before anyone had ever heard of COVID 19.

At some point it really doesn't matter anymore why they have not delivered a product. It only matters that people are frustrated and tired of waiting, and the company is not offering any explanation or making any effort to form and maintain a relationship with prospective customers who have been waiting far too long.

When and if the amp is produced I am sure it will sound great, but I also think some significant and unnecessary damage has been done to Ampeg's brand equity. Sorry but IMHO Yamaha or whoever is running this release has not handled it well.

 

[JimmyM]

I have to agree with Jim C. I've designed, developed, R&D'd, prototyped and brought to production....numerous very complex tool systems utilized in the oil/gas industry, far more complex than a guitar amp, and most of them done in 18 months +/- 2-3 months. That's from concept to market deployment. I will give them the COVID set back for launch but taking over a year to do some "tweaks" is absolutely ridiculous. Its beyond comprehension for a very simple product that was replicating both the Ampeg and Magnavox channels from the early days and supposedly was already done. Yamaha decided to delay the completed amp so THEY could "tweak" it??? And it takes over a year to "tweak" circuits that have been available for decades???? Yeah...um....BS.

If the amp qualifies as a new model I believe it would have to go through certification. Also since Yamaha has just taken over, they have to make a myriad of decisions on supply chain and the manufacturing process. I highly doubt the problem has anything to do with circuit design, and suspect it is much further down the manufacturing process. My suspicion is it's more about economics than anything else. Have any new SVTs been made since Yamaha took over, or are they still selling through NOS? If they are not making any SVTs yet, then that is probably why they have not made the 50th AV yet.

My suspicion all along has been that the 50th AV is the just an SVT VR with some very minor circuit changes, a special badge on the back, 6550s with special embossing, and a bit of extra etching on the front panel. Overall my impression is they worked a bunch of people into a feeding frenzy, but most of it is marketing hype. Then for whatever reason they have only delivered vapor ware. There have been plenty of other companies who have angered their customers by releasing vaporware!

At one time the commemorative badge for the back of the amp showed 1969-2019.
View attachment 3843794
It seems pretty clear that the intent was to release the amp in 2019, and we are long past that.

This is the current badge shown on the Ampeg website.
View attachment 3843793
Probably a good idea to not call attention to that actual dates of the anniversary anymore.

I think Yamaha makes some great gear and they also make some garbage. I don't get the impression that the company does a great job of supporting some of their gear. I bought a used Yamaha TRB6P in mid 90s and it was missing knob. At this time the bass was still a current model, so you would think it would be easy to buy a replacement knob from an authorized dealer.

The Yamaha dealers I spoke too in Germany were not able to help me, and when I got back to the states, I had the same experience there. All of the vendors told me it was difficult getting parts for Yamaha instruments. After wasting several months with dealers, I started making phone calls and eventually contacted someone way up in the food chain who took pity on me and found a way to get me the knob. It took a couple of follow ups but he came through in the end.

In contrast it's been pretty easy getting replacement encoders for Yamaha mixing LS9 consoles....so I guess my experience with Yamaha is mixed.

As far as this fiasco with the 50th AV SVT. I understand that sometimes crap happens and releases don't go as scheduled. The part that I find unreasonable is the company's lack of transparency and communication. Several months ago vendors were publishing release dates, then the release dates were repeatedly pushed, and now there are no release dates. Most of this happened long before anyone had ever heard of COVID 19.

At some point it really doesn't matter anymore why they have not delivered a product. It only matters that people are frustrated and tired of waiting, and the company is not offering any explanation or making any effort to form and maintain a relationship with prospective customers who have been waiting far too long.

When and if the amp is produced I am sure it will sound great, but I also think some significant and unnecessary damage has been done to Ampeg's brand equity. Sorry but IMHO Yamaha or whoever is running this release has not handled it well.

You guys need to go there and show them how it's done. Gee whiz, how did Yamaha survive and thrive and build such a good reputation all these years without your input? Damn guys, all this nonsense over a freaking amp that neither of you were going to buy in the first place.

It's just not that important.

 

[Raw N Low]

Apology accepted. However, judging by how low Ampeg's rep got by 2008, the stories Jerrold Tiers had about him flat out lying to SLM employees about keeping them on only to fire all but Dino and a couple other guys (who got fired soon after other than Dino), the stories of endorsers fed up with how he was running the company and treating them like they didn't matter, and the stories of some employees who worked through his era and lived to tell about it, with nary a single one saying what a good company leader he was, I feel pretty comfortable putting the blame for the image problems they developed at his feet. And everyone at LOUD knew I referred to him as the former head idiot, and not one of them ever asked me to stop saying it.

I definitely agree that the LOUD days were brutal on Ampeg. I could only imagine the developmental costs that went into the 5pro, 6pro, 7pro, 8pro, and numerous products like DI's and pre's that got yanked after they got involved. Moving production from the US to Korea and China isn't cheap either.

We essentially saw a company go from innovative to playing it safe. No doubt that Yamaha is probably still cleaning house and reviewing products beyond the 50th SVT. Let's cut Jimmy some slack and just be patient. Also, let's get one thing straight...the new SVT is going to be a loss leader. If an American based SVT was going to save Ampeg, the Heritage series would've done that long ago. Even the lighter all-tube V4B is sputtering along to capture sales. People want light portable amps with more flair than the PF series and Ampeg has already committed funds to market it as it's lightweight champ of choice.

Nowadays, the market share is with Mesa and boutique amp and cab builders. I hate to say it but, it's the truth. It's going to strategically take some time for Ampeg to get back into the market. Yamaha is going to try to find a way to re-invent the company's image and broaden it's player market (guitar players) once again.

Honestly, I'd be shocked if Ampeg sold 100K SVT 50's worldwide, and this is coming from a dyed in wool fan.

 

[Tim1]

I think it is a testament to Ampeg's reputation and consistency in providing a great product, with regard in particular to their all-tube heads, that this thread has continued to develop so much interest. Sadly my ageing body would struggle with carrying an SVT around these days and my days of roadies are long gone, yet I still hanker after one of these 50th anniversary versions. I guess one of the downsides of growing older is that weight becomes a prime consideration, but an upside is that I can afford to indulge myself and it may well be that I just do that. I have absolute confidence in the quality of Yamaha's manufacturing, having owned hifi and other equipment of theirs since the seventies, and I would rather wait for them to get it right. Years ago I purchased a Loud Vietnampeg which caused me several problems and shook my faith for a while. If Yamaha get it right, and I believe they will, then I would anticipate considerable demand around the world. If, however, there is a repeat of the Vietnam debacle then the svt may never recover. No doubt Yamaha are aware of this, I certainly hope so.

 

[Raw N Low]

I think Yamaha makes some great gear and they also make some garbage. I don't get the impression that the company does a great job of supporting some of their gear.

That's the impression I get from a lot of Japenese companies. What concerns me is that Japanese design in general doesn't abide by the "if it's not broke don't fix it" rule. My speculation is that this philosophy makes it very hard to fix or restore anything beyond a third party vendor.

I doubt they are following the MTI process of acquiring a bunch of parts and assembling them in a facelift package. Who knows? Your question of parts acquisition and support deserves thoughtful consideration. Yahama is going to have to find a way to simplify Ampeg's offerings into a modern reliable cart blanc package.

The class D PF series never made sense to me when they rolled out the 7pro and neo cab designs. Pick one, get it right, and stand behind it. I simply would've offered a beefy P-XXT model as a high-quality flip-top variant akin the B-15 and called it a day. Having three variants of the PF series and two of the PT series doesn't make sense. The HLF cabs are outdated as well, and Ampeg should just focus on the pro neo series based on player needs.

Ampeg is unwisely committing its resources to redundant and outdated products.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Yamaha Guitar Group is a small separate entity, Yamaha is the parent company. YGG is composed of USA Yamaha guitar, Line6, and the most recent addition, Ampeg. They recently posted some engineering jobs on their site. They guy at the top has been there for only a year, see the press announcement. They really are just starting. Yamaha moves forward in a slow meticulous way, that's why progress has been slow. I wouldn't expect a lot of changes in the newr future. I think that the anniversary release was about let's pull together and show them that we are here. With so many new people and roadblocks, maybe the schedule was too tight and the release was more work than they anticipated. Typically, ground up engineering is done in Japan. The US group doesn't have a lot of control over them. Locally engineering will be testing, limited assembly, and customer service. By customer service I mean management of the repair/warranty service, sales assistance to distributers and retailers, and ultimately the end user.

Yamaha Guitar Group, Inc.

 

[Wasnex]

It's just not that important.

Then why are you arguing about it so vehemently.

Look your right, I don't have a dog in the fight, but IMHO your not making matters better by essentially telling people they have no right to be frustrated. Some people have delayed buying needed amps and have money tied up in this. I think they have every right to be frustrated.

Also I believe you have said the Yamaha intends to keep their hands off Ampeg. It's very likely that Ampeg has fully developed the product and is ready to go, but Yamaha is not ready to greenlight production.

Unfortunately this sort of situation would cause political pressure that would prevent Ampeg from releasing statements to explain why the amp is delayed and when it will actually be released. I.E. they don't want to upset the new top dog by making public statements that could cause customers to form a negative view of the parent company. This sort of political maneuvering goes on all the time at various levels within a large tiered organization. Also Yamaha may not have made a decision yet, so Ampeg may have no idea when the amp will actually be released.

I have no doubt that successfully introducing a new product in the middle of a corporate takeover can be a herculean and vexing undertaking. From a marketing standpoint I think the 50th AV SVT was probably a great idea. Unfortunate that the 50th AV occurred while Yamaha was taking over as the parent company. The amp is probably a victim of the butterfly effect, but the butterfly is a gigantic corporate entity.

I agree that we are probably just going to have to wait and see what is going to happen. Unfortunately that means people who are interested in the amp will continue to be frustrated.

For the record, any frustration I feel is purely out of empathy for others. I have all the SVTs I need.