Amps louder than Tecamp Puma 900 but same size

[sokolasty]

Does the 12" speaker withstand all-knobs-right volume? I'd expect helluva speaker mechanical distortion from Swedish 350W, probably a damage.

 

[Boneless]

Why would this be?

Volume should map more closely to a logarithmic scale, while gain (or, rather, distortion) happens on a more "linear" one (past a certain threshold, THD usually tends to follow closer to a linear than a logarithmic curve; of course, it depends a lot on the clipping knee). If you have logarithmic pots on a gain control, you may have a lot of the distortion increase bunched up towards the end of the scale. Nevertheless, this is a rule of thumb that does not need to be followed. It's the designer's choice.

 

[MikeBass]

Don't care what you plug into your cab, it will only go so loud.
You're not going to make a 12 sound like a 410 or something by changing the amp.

 

[smogg]

I think you're overestimating what a small 12" cab can do, and you're risking damaging it. If you need to be louder than you are, with that equipment, the answer is more speakers not more watts.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hi all,

I've got a tecamp puma 900/Eich T900, and also a reidmar 750. I bought the Tecamp because its much smaller than the reidmar, and I can fit it in my gig bag (along with my hx Stomp). However, the Reidmar is MUCH louder, also not as clean, which is fine.

Are there any other amps the same size or smaller than the tecamp, but louder?

Thanks all

Super Midget Specs
​

...these were cut and pasted from the mfg's website. I bolded key specs.

PISTONIC SENSITIVITY
97dB - only fractionally less than our very loud 1x15" Compact
USABLE FREQUENCY RANGE
37Hz - 20kHz

RECOMMENDED AMP POWER
200-600W RMS
MAX CONTINUOUS BROADBAND SPL
127dB - louder than the best 2x10"s
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
8 ohms​

No idea where they get 127dB?

Assuming the cab can handle 600W and the sensitivity is 97dB 1W/1m:

Calculated SPL = [Log(600) x 10] + 97 = 124.78dB.

I would be surprised if even this figure is not a bit optimistic, as I doubt the mechanical power handling below 100hz is actually 600W.

To get 127dB from 97dB sensitivity requires 1,000W of power handling. Here is the math:

Calculated SPL = [Log(1000) x 10] + 97 = 127dB.

Rather than getting a more powerful amp, you need to accept reality and get a speaker that can actually play louder without bursting into flames or shooting the cone across the room. Getting a second (matching) cab, would probably give you the desired headroom.

Regarding why a 350W amp seems to play louder than a 500W amp. My guess is it has to do with the voicing. A brighter amp will tend to sound louder. This is because our ears are most sensitive to mid range frequencies...Ref: Fletcher Munson curve.

It could also be that the 350W amp actually has more dynamic headroom. Perhaps the 500W amp hits the wall at 500W and the 350W amp can produce clean bursts that are >500W. If BGM did Amp Labs on both amps, check the burst power measurements.

If you are curious:

Calculated SPL at 500W = [Log(500) x 10] + 97 = 123.99dB

Calculated SPL at 350W = [Log(350) x 10] + 97 = 122.44dB

Decibel Difference between 350W and 500W = [Log(500/350) x 10] = 1.55dB

We generally assume you need a 3dB change to clearly hear a difference, so 350W to 500W is essentially considered insignificant.

To get a 3dB change, you double the usable power:

Decibel Difference between 350W and 700W = [Log(700/350) x 10] = 3.01dB

Keep in mind that as speakers are pushed to their limit that power compression becomes more of a factor. So applying 3dB more power will produce <3dB SPL change.

Great post!. As they say, there is only so much juice in an orange. Cab efficiency can be more of a factor than the amount of wattage it's fed when it come to creating dBs. Old story, still true.

 

[Wasnex]

That 3dB quote to clearly hear a difference gets thrown around a lot but it's not really true. 3dB is a *significant* difference but in the context of a band mix even 1dB (or less) can make a (small) difference.

This is what I actually wrote:

We generally assume you need a 3dB change to clearly hear a difference.

In my experience, smaller changes can be heard in the context of a mix. However I wouldn't necessarily say I can hear a clear difference in volume. It's more like a small change can move an instrument slightly forward in the mix. As an audio tech I think I can make this distinction. However as a bass player, I highly doubt I will be able to notice a 1dB difference in headroom on stage.

 

[Boneless]

This is what I actually wrote:


In my experience, smaller changes can be heard in the context of a mix. However I wouldn't necessarily say I can hear a clear difference in volume. It's more like a small change can move an instrument slightly forward in the mix. As an audio tech I think I can make this distinction. However as a bass player, I highly doubt I will be able to notice a 1dB difference in SPL on stage.

It depends on what kind of stage you've got. In my experience, even small volume differences count a lot when the sound is bad and/or you have little experience as a live musician (because you use volume as a crutch) and/or you are kind of obsessive about tone (which is something that often correlates with having little live experience or confidence).

 

[ReeV0]

Does the 12" speaker withstand all-knobs-right volume? I'd expect helluva speaker mechanical distortion from Swedish 350W, probably a damage.

No, I kept the EQ more or less at noon

 

[sokolasty]

No, I kept the EQ more or less at noon

And how about gain and master volume?

 

[agedhorse]

Does the 12" speaker withstand all-knobs-right volume? I'd expect helluva speaker mechanical distortion from Swedish 350W, probably a damage.

No different than any other speaker operated within it's mechanical power rating.

Doing intentionally abusive thing to any speaker will end up abusing and ultimately damaging the speaker regardless of the size. My question is why somebody with even minimal good judgement do something like this.

 

[FRoss6788]

Honestly, if you're playing gigs with a live drummer and no PA support, a single 12 is not enough speaker, IMHO.

Of course I don't know what type of music you're playing or the type of gig, but in most cases I'd want at least a 15, but better yet 2x12.

 

[ReeV0]

And how about gain and master volume?

Gain set to clip when hit moderately hard, master at full.

I guess perhaps I should rephrase the initial question - is there an amp that is perceived to be 'louder' than the Puma 900, whilst being of the same form factor?

 

[xbud]

GR Bass One 800 - Once again, compared to the Puma or Eich, it is perceived louder due to the low gain staging and non-linear volume.

 

[Matt Morgan]

I owned an Eich T900. With an 8ohm 212 it was very loud. With an Eich 212 and an Eich 1210 it was ear splitting loud.
As virtually everyone has said, this is a cabinet issue not an amp issue.
Just my $.02 as usual.

 

[gtirard]

I'd like to take the defense of OP. While a agree with everyone that adding a cab would be easier, if we go back to what he said in the first couple of posts, it make sense. If paraphrase, he was happy with the Reidmar + Barefaced 1x12 exept that the amp was heavy. I bought the Puma the reduce the weight, but now he lacks power. So now, he doesn't want to add a second cab, he wants to find another amp, that is lighter but as loud as the Reidmar. I think it makes sense. We all agree that it would be easier to add a second cab, but it's not what he wants. Maybe there is an amp that is light like Puma and loud like the Reidmar, why not? Maybe the Quilter Bass Block (800 and 802 discontinued, 803 expected soon) could make it?

 

[FRoss6788]

I'd like to take the defense of OP. While a agree with everyone that adding a cab would be easier, if we go back to what he said in the first couple of posts, it make sense. If paraphrase, he was happy with the Reidmar + Barefaced 1x12 exept that the amp was heavy. I bought the Puma the reduce the weight, but now he lacks power. So now, he doesn't want to add a second cab, he wants to find another amp, that is lighter but as loud as the Reidmar. I think it makes sense. We all agree that it would be easier to add a second cab, but it's not what he wants. Maybe there is an amp that is light like Puma and loud like the Reidmar, why not? Maybe the Quilter Bass Block (800 and 802 discontinued, 803 expected soon) could make it?

Understood.

With a 2x12, one hand carry, one cabinet, he can still use the Puma and have way more volume on tap. Problem solved.

A 1x12 is little more than a coffee house rig.

 

[ReeV0]

Understood.

With a 2x12, one hand carry, one cabinet, he can still use the Puma and have way more volume on tap. Problem solved.

A 1x12 is little more than a coffee house rig.

The Barefaced Super Midget is a pathway to many abilities some may consider unnatural

 

[Stylee Mousse]

The Barefaced Super Midget is a pathway to many abilities some may consider unnatural

dude, really? It's a small bass cab that gets kinda loud and hasn't blown yet! The math gets it to 122-3 db full tilt, probably deep in power compression and near xmax.
That's within "natural".

 

[FRoss6788]

The Barefaced Super Midget is a pathway to many abilities some may consider unnatural

Yes, yes, yes, it's a loud cab...for a 1x12. It's still a 1x12.

You're looking to buy a 3rd head for a 1x12 to get LOUDER...

For about the same money you can get a 2x12 that'll have the same footprint as the 1x12 and get LOUD.

I don't understand the pushback...it'll give you WAAAY more flexibility and you won't be risking the health of your Barefaced which you're likely pushing to it's limit.

 

[ReeV0]

I guess the Star Wars quote was a bit obscure

I've had plenty of 212's in the past including a TC RS212, Berg AE212, Barefaced Super Twin and a few others that I can't remember. For a multitude of reasons I am content to just stick with a 112 now, and will go through the PA if required and available. If not, I guess I'll just have to carry the Reidmar separately.