Amps louder than Tecamp Puma 900 but same size

[bass151]

Agree with Andy, more cabs with either amp should be adequate.

 

[Zooberwerx]

So two posts here that feel the 750 is the loudest class d thev"ve used and I have no reason to doubt that. Do you both use a fair amount of low end. Read the EBS amps are very clean but lack a bit on the bottom.

In all fairness, I use the "Character" engaged which boosts the low end and creates some degree of mid-scoop. I superimpose the EQ on top to ice-the-cupcake. It reminds me of the Trace "Shape" function which creates a similar voicing. In both instances, I back-off the bass EQ / lower sliders to compensate.

I know it's not on your agenda but add a second enclosure

Riis

 

[Jazz Ad]

Cabs get loud, not amps.
Ant 200w had into a 2x12 will be louder than your rig.

 

[Killing Floor]

To measure loudness use a decibel meter at 1 meter. Then, you'll know for sure what is actually louder. Use a frequency analysis tool while you're at it. In their absence you might not be hearing what you think.

This. I’ve tried to ‘Splain to people on TB Watt is not a unit of volume and some dingaling always responds with some nonsense about “bass watts” that are a different kind of Watt created by SI for bass forums. Use a dB meter or just use an app since for this purpose close enough is fine.

 

[jeff62]

More amp is not your answer, more speaker area is. Sorry, you can’t bend physics around your will.

 

[ReeV0]

Annoyingly I have an amp that is enough, I just want it in a smaller package similar to the Tecamp

 

[Hounddog409]

Hi all,

I've got a tecamp puma 900/Eich T900, and also a reidmar 750. I bought the Tecamp because its much smaller than the reidmar, and I can fit it in my gig bag (along with my hx Stomp). However, the Reidmar is MUCH louder, also not as clean, which is fine.

Are there any other amps the same size or smaller than the tecamp, but louder?

Thanks all

You need more speakers, not more amp. 900 is enough for anything.

 

[FRoss6788]

Could also be a voicing thing where the Reidmar is perceived to be louder due to, likely, it's midrange character.

Edit; I also agree that a 2x12 would be a better "fix" if you're right on the edge of needing more volume. Most have the same footprint as the 1x12 as well.

I have a Berg 2x12 and it's a one hand carry with a tiny footprint and is all I'll ever need volume wise.

 

[B String]

Yeah, I noticed this about my new-to-me Reidmar 750...I've attributed this your reasons given and the design / gain structure. Mine gets ungawdly loud with the gain at 10:00 and master volume past 8:00. Haven't cranked it to gig volume yet but it's on the agenda. FWIW, the enclosure is an Epifani 3x10.

Riis

I have an older Epifani 3x10UL. More volume and articulation than may 4x10's I've used. I think with both amps and speaker boxes it more about quality as opposed to size and specs.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Sorry, you can’t bend physics around your will.

What!!!

 

[jeff62]

What!!!

You’re right, Jeff. I take it back. Maybe the OP is actually a combination of Dr Strange and Vision. That would do the trick!

 

[MultiScaleMale]

If you want louder, you need to add cabs. The watts from the amp will support the additional speakers. All cabs are not created and a well designed cab is going to to get you louder (usually and to an extent) than poorly designed cabs. So when we start to think "I can't hear myself" instead of adding watts, adding another cab is generally a better idea.

 

[trevcda]

Not enough rig for the gig, as we like to say on the other side of the faders!

 

[StephenR]

Doesn't really matter which amp you use one speaker is only going to move so much air, more speakers equal more volume. Your band volume and monitor situation dictate how many speakers you will need.

 

[xbud]

I noticed with the PUMA/ Eich heads the gain section really makes a difference. I can turn the gain on the PUMA almost all the way up and it doesn't clip, same with Eich. You may be used to other heads where running past noon was enough to get the output you desire.

 

[MingusBass]

lol

 

[gmarcus]

You should see if you can dial up a tone that sounds louder with your HX stomp. Put in a High Pass filter at ~60 to 70 HZ then boost a few DB around at 120 Hz and cut a few DB at 300 hz then boost a few DB around 900 to 2K. put all that into an overdrive and see what happens. You will need to choose frequencies and amounts of cut and boost to suit your style, but this would be a good start for getting loud.

 

[Boneless]

Did you really compared them at full volume? Some amps deliver most of their potential with the volume knob at noon, in order to give the impression that they are more powerful than they are...

I hate this characterisation. It's just a choice of taper (linear vs logarithmic). For a volume knob logarithmic should be better suited, linear for a gain knob, but it's not a rule.

 

[Boneless]

Super Midget Specs
​

...these were cut and pasted from the mfg's website. I bolded key specs.

PISTONIC SENSITIVITY
97dB - only fractionally less than our very loud 1x15" Compact
USABLE FREQUENCY RANGE
37Hz - 20kHz

RECOMMENDED AMP POWER
200-600W RMS
MAX CONTINUOUS BROADBAND SPL
127dB - louder than the best 2x10"s
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
8 ohms​

No idea where they get 127dB?

Assuming the cab can handle 600W and the sensitivity is 97dB 1W/1m:

Calculated SPL = [Log(600) x 10] + 97 = 124.78dB.

I would be surprised if even this figure is not a bit optimistic, as I doubt the mechanical power handling below 100hz is actually 600W.

To get 127dB from 97dB sensitivity requires 1,000W of power handling. Here is the math:

Calculated SPL = [Log(1000) x 10] + 97 = 127dB.

Rather than getting a more powerful amp, you need to accept reality and get a speaker that can actually play louder without bursting into flames or shooting the cone across the room. Getting a second (matching) cab, would probably give you the desired headroom.

Regarding why a 350W amp seems to play louder than a 500W amp. My guess is it has to do with the voicing. A brighter amp will tend to sound louder. This is because our ears are most sensitive to mid range frequencies...Ref: Fletcher Munson curve.

It could also be that the 350W amp actually has more dynamic headroom. Perhaps the 500W amp hits the wall at 500W and the 350W amp can produce clean bursts that are >500W. If BGM did Amp Labs on both amps, check the burst power measurements.

If you are curious:

Calculated SPL at 500W = [Log(500) x 10] + 97 = 123.99dB

Calculated SPL at 350W = [Log(350) x 10] + 97 = 122.44dB

Decibel Difference between 350W and 500W = [Log(500/350) x 10] = 1.55dB

We generally assume you need a 3dB change to clearly hear a difference, so 350W to 500W is essentially considered insignificant.

To get a 3dB change, you double the usable power:

Decibel Difference between 350W and 700W = [Log(700/350) x 10] = 3.01dB

Keep in mind that as speakers are pushed to their limit that power compression becomes more of a factor. So applying 3dB more power will produce <3dB SPL change.

That 3dB quote to clearly hear a difference gets thrown around a lot but it's not really true. 3dB is a *significant* difference but in the context of a band mix even 1dB (or less) can make a (small) difference. The kind of difference that a musician might hear, because he's looking for it (but would be probably missed by the audience).

Anyway it's certainly not a power issue. It's probably a processing issue (EQ, limiting, compression, soft clipping, etc.).

You can get away with, like, 5-6% THD without hearing much of a difference tonally but with quite a lot more perceived volume. Since one of the two amps has been characterised as "dirtier sounding", I'm betting there is some of this happening.

 

[agedhorse]

I hate this characterisation. It's just a choice of taper (linear vs logarithmic). For a volume knob logarithmic should be better suited, linear for a gain knob, but it's not a rule.

Why would this be?