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Double Bass An Ehrlund blog, sort of

#561
I recently purchased the Ehrlund & preamp. Feeling daring, I went right from the post office to the gig and unpacked it. I stuck the pickup with three-corner-putty-technique just below the bridge on the center seam, a place I've had good luck aiming an ATM35 mic in the past. I looped the cable and tied it into the leather quiver lace. Preamp was clipped to the quiver. Amp is a GK MBS III combo.

I was really happy with the sound. This room is small & people-noisy where bass gets easily swallowed along with the pasta and wine, but I could still hear a natural bass sound more than I normally do with a Full Circle.

The next night, I took the same haphazard setup to another small, people-noisy venue and had the same good experience.

The next next day, I spent some time getting the cable loop nicely velcroed to the back of the tailpiece, then went to a gig at a much larger, extremely people-noisy venue, this one with a drummer who is a little heavy on the 4-on-the-floor (the other two gigs were drummerless). Experience was not so good there. I couldn't get enough definition, and the D-string seemed weak. I had to revert to Full Circle after the first tune. On the break, I moved the triangle over to the Durb-recommended spot, but reverted to Full Circle again.

The next week I went back to the first two venues, but I couldn't quite get the happiness back once I had pickup-on-the-brain. Maybe the bass and the weather, or the sweet spot, amp placement, or my ears needed popping (yawning helps). Most of the trouble is probably people-noise variations. I'm still optimistic about the Ehrlund - will see what happens this week.
 
#562
jazzfong said:
The next week I went back to the first two venues, but I couldn't quite get the happiness back once I had pickup-on-the-brain. Maybe the bass and the weather, or the sweet spot, amp placement, or my ears needed popping (yawning helps). Most of the trouble is probably people-noise variations. I'm still optimistic about the Ehrlund - will see what happens this week.
Click to expand...

Hedonic adaptation?
 
#564
Quick question: How much play is there between the outer shell of the preamp vs the 1/4" sockets? Does it wiggle?

I'd been experiencing some very strange and annoying pops coming from the preamp lately, volume up or down or off, just touching it might cause it to make annoying noise. I wrote Ehrlund about it and they said to send to Sweden, which I don't have time for, so I took mine apart.

I ended up 1) folding a piece of business card and placing between the battery and outer shell, 2) bending the ground metal on the back of the circuit board to ensure contact, and 3) wedging a piece of business card between the circuit board and those ribs on the inside of the outer shell to provide a tighter, wiggle free fit.

Don't know which of these fixed the situation but I could not replicate the noise.
 
#565
I tried the Ehrlund for a week and gave up and sold mine. The biggest issue for me was how incredibly fickle the "sweet spot" is. I recorded the direct out from the Ehrlund in my studio, trying out different spots. And after about 5 minutes I seemed to find a pretty good spot, but if you were to take the pickup off and put it on again in the exact same spot, it would sound totally different. The amount of putty on the back completely alters the sound, as does how tightly you press it against the body. Even if you do finally manage to find the sweet spot, just a tiny push against it or a slight knock will completely alter the tone. Sounded nice when it was right, but just too much of a risk. Full circle and DPA still win for me. Still it would be wonderful to find a mic with less bleed. One day...
 
#566
estesbass said:
I tried the Ehrlund for a week and gave up and sold mine. The biggest issue for me was how incredibly fickle the "sweet spot" is. I recorded the direct out from the Ehrlund in my studio, trying out different spots. And after about 5 minutes I seemed to find a pretty good spot, but if you were to take the pickup off and put it on again in the exact same spot, it would sound totally different. The amount of putty on the back completely alters the sound, as does how tightly you press it against the body. Even if you do finally manage to find the sweet spot, just a tiny push against it or a slight knock will completely alter the tone. Sounded nice when it was right, but just too much of a risk. Full circle and DPA still win for me. Still it would be wonderful to find a mic with less bleed. One day...
Click to expand...

Interesting. I haven't had that experience at all. As I've posted, I use the smallest amount of putty I can. I've removed it and replaced it and the results are very reliable. Once set in place, I can push it, knock it, whatever with no change in the character of the sound. I can understand that the change one experiences with small alterations in location could depend very much on the DB but I don't think that accounts for the unreliability and fragility you experienced.
 
#567
I have to agree with estesbass on this one. We can objectively say that the Ehrlund volume and tone are strongly dependent of its location and orientation, but also by its distance from the bass' top. If your bass/gear behave like mine, it might also affect the gain/feedback ratio. But does it make it unreliable? Absolutely not! With experience, one can find reliable methods for installing this PU with consistently good results (IME it took quite a while). But if you are on a studio and you have a DPA, I don't see any reason to bother with the Ehrlund.
 
#568
While I agree that the pick-up sounds different depending on position, putty, distance from top, etc., I think the studio is not going to be its strong point regardless. But then again, I wouldn't want to go into a studio and use the DPA either.
Recently I spent a week in peru playing some gigs with my Kolstein RN travel bass and had the EAP on and off the bass 4 or 5 times with consistently good results. I was blending the EAP and an Underwood through a Headway pre and using whatever backline was available and a line out to the P.A. I was happy, the band was happy and the EAP was a large part of that.
It probably sounded different each time I took it off and reapplied it, but I was in different rooms with different gear each time too, so it would be very hard to assign responsibility for that to the Ehrlund. Whatever difference there may have been was very workable for me.
I would not have wanted to walk into these gigs with a microphone (although I do love playing mic only on gigs around town when possible) because of all the variables involved. Under the best of conditions a mic sounds and feels much better to me than the EAP, but when walking into a live playing situation where I want the least hassle and the quickest route to a sound that works and works well, at this point I'll take this set up over the mic every time. At least until I change my mind......
 
#569
Adagio said:
I have to agree with estesbass on this one. We can objectively say that the Ehrlund volume and tone are strongly dependent of its location and orientation, but also by its distance from the bass' top. If your bass/gear behave like mine, it might also affect the gain/feedback ratio. But does it make it unreliable? Absolutely not! With experience, one can find reliable methods for installing this PU with consistently good results (IME it took quite a while). But if you are on a studio and you have a DPA, I don't see any reason to bother with the Ehrlund.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you agree with me as well. Intensity and tone are dependent on location. Check. Positioning can affect susceptibility to feedback. Check. Re-positioning is generally quite reliable. Check.

Chris Symer said:
While I agree that the pick-up sounds different depending on position, putty, distance from top, etc., I think the studio is not going to be its strong point regardless. But then again, I wouldn't want to go into a studio and use the DPA either.
Recently I spent a week in peru playing some gigs with my Kolstein RN travel bass and had the EAP on and off the bass 4 or 5 times with consistently good results. I was blending the EAP and an Underwood through a Headway pre and using whatever backline was available and a line out to the P.A. I was happy, the band was happy and the EAP was a large part of that.
It probably sounded different each time I took it off and reapplied it, but I was in different rooms with different gear each time too, so it would be very hard to assign responsibility for that to the Ehrlund. Whatever difference there may have been was very workable for me.
I would not have wanted to walk into these gigs with a microphone (although I do love playing mic only on gigs around town when possible) because of all the variables involved. Under the best of conditions a mic sounds and feels much better to me than the EAP, but when walking into a live playing situation where I want the least hassle and the quickest route to a sound that works and works well, at this point I'll take this set up over the mic every time. At least until I change my mind......
Click to expand...
+1!!! :)
 
#571
Most of the recordings of the Ehrlund I've listened to really didn't capture the way it sounds through my amplifier and cabinet's. I think if you wanted a good representation of the EAP, you'd have to record it coming from an amplifier, not through a DI. Even the venerable DPA 4099B, which gets a wonderful sound live, wouldn't be my choice for a studio recording, as there are far better choices out their in a controlled environment like a studio.

I've seen players initially get excited about a new product, before they really put it through the wringer in a variety of playing experiences. Most often, what happens is that "we" (me included) go back to what worked best in the first place, because, in our ears will tell us what sounds better, and is more comfortable. Blending two different pickups, may be perfectly suited to other players, I just don't happen to be one of them. If I need more coverage, then I send my DPA 4099B FOH. I also think that we can be fooled by a great "on stage" sound from a particular pickup when were in close proximity to the amp. That's certainly been my experience. Over the years I've come to the conclusion that using just an amplifier is a real art in itself. The only sure thing for me is that raising the cabinet of the floor, can really help.

If the Ehrlund doesn't provide you with the desired sound, then it would be counterproductive to use it. In my case, it's ideal.

Ric
 
#572
I had the EAP for a week, I played few rehearsals and a concert with it. Now I going to replace my Full Circle to EAP, and keep my old BP-100 on the gig bag for critical situations, where you must give up the natural sound and fighting for to be heard. I find a very good place for EAP on my bass, but there was usable everywhere around that place for me. The EAP has way more natural sound than FC or any other piezzo I think, and seems possible to get enough volume for a jazz trio or quartet gig, that's a big deal in my opinion...
 
#574
Barcza said:
I made short records with both EAP ( without it's preamp) and FC, my soundcard has 10Mohms input, so it's ideal for FC.

EAP: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

FC: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

Barcza,
This is the most accurate side by side comparison of the difference between an EAP a Piezo. Very nice job. You have nice command of the instrument with solid intonation, good time, and musical lines. Bravo

Ric
 
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#575
Bravo again, Barcza!

The FC definitely sounds more "up-front" as expected, with less of the acoustic sound of the instrument and bit more "nasal twang." The EAP recording could almost (yes, I said "almost" :)) pass for the instrument recorded with a mic.

I could certainly understand why, in some difficult situations, players would want more of the up-front sound, although, in the admittedly limited situations in which I play, I've yet to find that to be the case.

In my playing around with the EAP, I was able to achive more of that up-front sound on my bass by moving it closer to the bass-bar/bridge area.
 
#576
Thank you guys:)

I didn't tweak with proximity with the EAP, during the week I have, just the placement, but yes it seems possible to get more close sound if needed. My main problem with FC beyond the "twang", I hear allways a very slight, kind of "distortion" in the sound. I never heard that before with the BP-100, which is not as good PU as the FC.:rolleyes:
 
#579
Robin Ruscio said:
I'm still having problems with my EAP. Been using my fishman FC.

I removed the pickup to have new jack installed and cant get enough volume out of it on gigs. I think I must've lost my "sweet spot". This thing is really picky!
Click to expand...

Robin-- How picky it is seems to depend on the bass. Perhaps I could help you via PM with some tips and tricks.
 

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