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Double Bass An Ehrlund blog, sort of

#601
Barcza said:
Does he use with upright?
This unit has low impedance input, so maybe works with the Ehrlund pre, it has narrow band Q too.
Click to expand...

Actually, I believe he used it primarily with a Rob Allen fretless. He did own a Czech Double Bass, but apparently he's selling it. Hard to say. Once you've inserted the Ehrlund Pre into the signal chain, the impedance matching is taken care of, at least into my amplifiers. When I've sent the EAP FOH the engineers haven't had any difficulty with EQ.

Ric
 
#602
Hi all-

I just bought an Ehrlund, and am fiddling with it, searching for the perfect sound out of my sweet old 30s German roundback and Doubler/Wizzy 10. I am switching from a Full Circle, and am finding that the EAP offers all of the life/breath I have been looking for, but without the direct/core/fat sound that the FC offers. Amazing to compare them. I like elements of each, but find each lacking to some degree. So I am blending them together, and am REALLY liking what I am getting.

Have others tried this? Should it be necessary w the EAP, or am I missing something?

thanks-
Jim Gray
 
#603
jimgray said:
Hi all-

I just bought an Ehrlund, and am fiddling with it, searching for the perfect sound out of my sweet old 30s German roundback and Doubler/Wizzy 10. I am switching from a Full Circle, and am finding that the EAP offers all of the life/breath I have been looking for, but without the direct/core/fat sound that the FC offers. Amazing to compare them. I like elements of each, but find each lacking to some degree. So I am blending them together, and am REALLY liking what I am getting.

Have others tried this? Should it be necessary w the EAP, or am I missing something?

thanks-
Jim Gray
Click to expand...

I am solidly in the blending camp. I always mix the EAP with another pickup. I've been mixing it with an Underwood on my travel bass and with a Schertler Stat-B on my "good" bass and am quite happy with both setups. Just as no single pickup is right for every bass and player, even your "ideal" bass/pickup combination is not going to be right for every room or playing situation. Blending two pickups, especially two pickups with fairly different characteristics, provides a lot of options in those situations and I find it too simple and easy of a solution to pass up.
I don't think your missing anything Jim, if you ask me you are on exactly the right track. Let your ears tell you what is working for you and ignore the voice in your head!
 
#604
jimgray said:
I am switching from a Full Circle, and am finding that the EAP offers all of the life/breath I have been looking for, but without the direct/core/fat sound that the FC offers. Amazing to compare them.
Click to expand...

Jim,
On my instrument the Ehrlund produces such a clear, articulate and warm tone that I don't find it necessary to blend a second sound source. I do own a DPA 4099B that I can send FOH, if needed.

jimgray said:
I like elements of each, but find each lacking to some degree. So I am blending them together, and am REALLY liking what I am getting.
Click to expand...

Since the Doubler has two independent channels, you have the perfect setup to get a balanced accurate blend. It's the "best of both worlds" with your particular setup. As for me,
I came to the Ehrlund from a copper foil Realist, so the EAP was just an upgrade from a pickup that has a more microphone like quality.

jimgray said:
Have others tried this? Should it be necessary w the EAP, or am I missing something?
Click to expand...


Personally, I don't find blending to be all that desirable, but my taste, playing situations, instrument setup are different from yours. I have a Headway EDB-1 and I used it to blend a DPA 4099B with the Ehrlund. With that setup the sound sources are so similar in timbre, that the results of the blend didn't justify the extra box and cables.
When the new Acoustic Image Flex pre amp comes to market I'm going to give it another shot. Since it provides for 48 volts to the DPA 4099 like your Doubler does, I'm interested to hear what that sounds like

Ric


jimgray said:
thanks-
Jim Gray
Click to expand...
 
#605
jimgray said:
I am switching from a Full Circle, and am finding that the EAP offers all of the life/breath I have been looking for, but without the direct/core/fat sound that the FC offers. Amazing to compare them.
Click to expand...

Jim,
On my instrument the Ehrlund produces such a clear, articulate and warm tone that I don't find it necessary to blend a second sound source. I do own a DPA 4099B that I can send FOH, if needed.

jimgray said:
I like elements of each, but find each lacking to some degree. So I am blending them together, and am REALLY liking what I am getting.
Click to expand...

Since your two sound sources produce distinctly different timbres' andthe Doubler has two independent channels, you have the perfect setup to get a balanced accurate blend. It's the "best of both worlds" with your particular setup. As for me,I came to the Ehrlund from a copper foil Realist, so the EAP was just an upgrade from a piezo pickup that already had a more microphone like quality.

jimgray said:
Have others tried this? Should it be necessary w the EAP, or am I missing something?
Click to expand...


Personally, I don't find blending to be all that desirable, but my taste, playing situations, instrument setup are different from yours. I have a Headway EDB-1 and I used it to blend a DPA 4099B with the Ehrlund. With that setup the sound sources are so similar in timbre, that the results of the blend didn't justify the extra box and cables.
When the new Acoustic Image Flex pre amp comes to market I'm going to give it another shot. Since it provides for 48 volts to the DPA 4099 like your Doubler does, I'm interested to hear what that sounds like.

Ric

jimgray said:
thanks-
Jim Gray
Click to expand...
 
#606
Ric's advice is so good that it was worth him posting it twice. :D
I'm in the same camp as Ric. I have no desire to blend the EAP with anything else but, as Ric says, it all depends upon taste, setup, etc.

For me, that "direct/core" sound is what I find to be useful in rare circumstances but one that is most unnatural. That sound stems from transducing vibrations that are transmitted only a short mechanical distance from the string. It lacks the resonance and attack/decay profile of the vibrating top.

I've had the EAP outdoors, in large rooms, small rooms, quiet rooms, noisy rooms, in combo settings, and with a big band. In every case, I found it to be rather superior.

All that said, the Doubler is an excellent platform for blending. As has been said, let your ears tell you what works for you.

IMO, IME, FWIW, YMMV :)
 
#608
QUOTE]Barcza,
I have no experience with the Empress, but there are several TB members who do. Pastor Hal comes to mind, as I think he owns one.

Ric [/QUOTE]

I'm afraid that I'm of no help with this question. I don't have an Empress and I've never used a separate EQ. My setup is very simple: Ehrlund EAP and Ehrlund preamp into amp (my AI Ten2 or a venue's sound system).

Personally, I just wish I could hear what I sound like out in the audience. I can never tell what awful adjustments a sound tech or band member is making to my sound!

- Hal -
 
#609
Pastor Hal said:
QUOTE]
I'm afraid that I'm of no help with this question. I don't have an Empress and I've never used a separate EQ. My setup is very simple: Ehrlund EAP and Ehrlund preamp into amp (my AI Ten2 or a venue's sound system).

Personally, I just wish I could hear what I sound like out in the audience. I can never tell what awful adjustments a sound tech or band member is making to my sound!

- Hal -
Click to expand...


Pastor Hal

Sorry about that, I realized later that it was someone else who had started the Empress thread. It was Ukiah Bass that uses or used the Empress. Incidentally, I just got a look at the new Acoustic Image Flex Pre Amp and Powered Cabinet, when I was at the ISB Convention. It's a full featured pre amp that attaches to the Flex Powered Speaker Cabinet via either 1/4 or CAT 5.

Ric
 
#610
jimgray said:
If I could get a little more core/body out of the EAP, I might not need to do this.
That said, I LOVE the air/breath/life I am getting out of it.
FC + EAP is as close to a mic as I need to be in live circumstances.

Any great suggestions on EAP placement?
Advice appreciated.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you have your EAP now. Mine is on the E-side lower bout west of the sound post. I found that moving it toward and/or in between the sound post and bridge produces a somewhat less "airy" but more focused sound.
 
#614
To those curious about the Empress ParaEQ pedal, I just recently got one to use with my EAP. I was using a headway EDB-1 before and the tone shaping ability and overall sound i'm getting with the empress is a big improvement.
My signal chain is EAP > Ehrlund Pre > fdeck HPF > Empress EQ > QSC K10. Having the HPF in there frees up the low eq band on the empress from having to do the necessary sub-bass cut. As such, I wouldn't use it without a good HPF if its to be your only EQ source.
I'm thinking this will be my last gear purchase for a long time. :D
 
#615
aaronallen said:
My signal chain is EAP > Ehrlund Pre > fdeck HPF > Empress EQ > QSC K10. Having the HPF in there frees up the low eq band on the empress from having to do the necessary sub-bass cut. As such, I wouldn't use it without a good HPF if its to be your only EQ source.
I'm thinking this will be my last gear purchase for a long time. :D
Click to expand...


Aaron,
I have a similar set up using an Ehrlund EAP, Ehrlund PreAmp, Headway EDB-1, and QSC K8. I could put my FDeck into the signal chain to help tame low end feedback and it would definitely improve things. Like you, I find it essential to use the Ehrlund Pre, ahead of a full featured front end like the Headway EDB-1 or the Empress.
Having that many devices in the chain makes it a complicated setup for me. I'm glad it works for you, but I'm hoping that the AI Flex System will eliminate the need for anything but the EAP and it's Pre Amp. Having three battery powered modules in front of the power amp requires a lot of perseverance testing batteries, or some kind of pedal board that supplies voltage to all those "effects".

Ric
 
#616
After reading about bassists using their Ehrlund without a preamp, I decided to try the same. I didn't expect this experiment to be successful, but lo and behold! In input B of my Glockenklang Bass Art preamp, which has an extremely high impedance, it sounded exactly the same as with my preamp. The only difference was that the gain was at 3 o' clock instead of 12 o' clock. I also tried it with my Atelier der Tonkunst DI box in my Apogee converter, and this too resulted in a very satisfying tone.

So, I put my Ehrlund preamp for sale in the Classifieds. I was extremely satisfied with the results of going directly into my amp or DI, and for me, the added benefit of the preamp was nil. I fully understand that many would prefer using the preamp (and I know I will miss the phase switch every now and then), but the fact that I am battery-free more than makes up for this.

Cheers,
Vincent
 
#617
I found the Ehrlund works with the Walter Woods without the preamp very well. The reason I keep the preamp now is that the volume control on the preamp (mounted on the tailpiece) is handy, especially when playing at volumes approaching feed back. And the phase switch, for some mysterious (to me) reason does act as some sort of eq.

Steven
 
#618
notabene said:
And the phase switch, for some mysterious (to me) reason does act as some sort of eq.
Click to expand...

I'll try to de-mystify it for you. :) Certainly, not all of the frequencies produced by your rig are in the same relative phase to the acoustic output of the instrument when they reach the bass. When you flip the phase switch, it can, therefore, be expected to cancel and reinforce different sets of frequencies. I believe that's what you're experiencing.
 
#619
notabene said:
I found the Ehrlund works with the Walter Woods without the preamp very well. The reason I keep the preamp now is that the volume control on the preamp (mounted on the tailpiece) is handy, especially when playing at volumes approaching feed back. And the phase switch, for some mysterious (to me) reason does act as some sort of eq.

Steven
Click to expand...

Steven,
Just by accident, I discovered what you did, when I forgot my pre amp on the way to a gig. The EAP will definitely work in combination with a Woods without, the Ehrlund Pre Amp. With the pre amp in the signal chain I get better overall frequency response from the EAP, and the ability to dial back the Volume easily, to control feedback and for arco passages . So I think that the EAP, Ehrlund Preamp and Woods work very well together. Unfortunately, Walter's amplifiers are very high end, and therefore out of most players budgets. It has also recently become quite a challenge to get them serviced.

Ric
 

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