An impromptu Talkbass science experiment. VOLUNTEERS needed!!!

[Joe Nerve]

Yeah, I've become slightly obsessed with this metronome thing for a variety of reasons. Bottom line is I really am curious now as to whether or not working with a metronome REALLY helps people with their timing, and I've come up with an experiment that will help people here who have timing issues, and possibly prove the usefulness (or lack of) regarding metronomes.

Before telling what I'm looking for in volunteers, I'd like to say I welcome all ideas to help this experiment work more smoothly. I'm open to suggestion.

What I'd like is to get as many players as possible to work with me following some simple instructions and exercises to help better their sense of time.

To see if you'd make a good volunteer candidate, do this:

First, pick up your bass. It doesn't need to be plugged in. You can actually just tap it out on a desk too if your bass isn't around.

Now tap out 16th notes to this click. It's fine to take some time to get it right (about a minute or so), but once you do, maintain those 16th for 2 minutes:



If you struggle considerably, you're a good candidate for the experiment. Please volunteer.



I'll come up with the exercise routine over the next week or so, if this thread doesn't fall flat on it's face and I get enough volunteers.

In the meantime, everyone else is welcome to chime in. You can brag too if ya did the exercise with no problem at all .

 

[inanimate_carb]

No reason or rationale for this poll beyond pure research and general elucidation, right?

 

[Wood and Wire]

Well I'll admit I was surprised : I've never used a metronome in quite that manner, and whilst it was a doddle using a pick, it was eye opening to find that even though my timing was accurate playing finger style - I did, unexpectedly, start to feel the burn after a few minutes.

I almost never play finger style these days - so it's alarming to realise my stamina has slipped in that respect, and that needs addressing, at least for my own peace of mind - if not for genuine practical reasons.

So, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

 

[Meghans Dad]

For once, something you guys say or do makes me feel better about myself. Listened for 3 or 4 beats and played- by the second beat had it dialed in.

 

[funkymonk13]

This is basically how i practice. As someone who does it, yes it helps immensely. The idea of behind the concept is to wean yourself off the metronome and use it less and less as a reference so that its you keeping the time. I can literally feel a difference in my perception of time after a few sessions of this.

If you're having trouble with it, you can start playing quarter notes at 80bpm. Then halve the tempo to 40bpm, and play at the same speed(now you'd be playing eight notes). Then halve the tempo again to 20bmp, and play at the same speed(now youre playing those 16th notes).....I dunno if thats confusing; most digital metronomes(phone apps), you can also just take off some of the clicks in the bar to do the same thing. For all these exercises the lenght of the notes you're playing stay the same, whats changing is the number of clicks you're hearing from the metronome.

Another interesting way to practice: instead of making the tempo slower, double it. So if you start with quarter notes at 80bpm, play at the same speed but set the metronome to 160bpm, then to 240bpm. If you start out with a lick at 80bpm and can play it the same with all the clicks going on at 240, that will keep you accurate.

My bass teacher in NYC taught me another way to practice which he picked up from some old jazz dudes. Basically the same thing as the first exercise, but practice it with whole notes. Play a whole note at 80bmp, then that same lenght note but with the metronome at 40, then 20 and so on. So according to him, one of the ways you can keep time pretty accurately by listening to the swelling of the note. You can kind of hear the wave expand and contract and figure out where to stop it by listening to where the wave is. Pretty cool stuff.

Edit: Also, theres a ton of variations you can use with these concepts. Divide the time in different ways. In joes example, if you can do 16th notes to every click mix it up. Do 16th notes one bar, triplets the next, quintuplets the next, two 16ths and a triplet....Whatever you want. Music is so limitless; theres so many creative combinations you can use to improve your time.
From the metronome thread i got the impression that a lot of people just see it as a click click click click click and thats it....If thats the only way i was using it i'd think it were useless, boring and annoying too. Seriously, experiment and get creative with it; you'll be blown away by how much of a difference it makes to practice this stuff, and its actually pretty fun!!!

 

[BurnOut]

I'm pretty novice in this bass thing, I'll volunteer. I ain't submitting no samples of my playing, but other than that I'm game Mr Teacher.

 

[Bassbeater]

I just contacted amnesty international regarding your cruel "experiments" on humans.

 

[mmon77]

Well, I got it, but struggled a little bit. I've also never really used a metronome in that way. I'm game for the experiment. It can only help.

 

[catcauphonic]

I didn't do the video pre test, but I'm hereby volunteering to donate a portion of my weekly bass-in-hand non-song-learning practice time to trying some suggested metronome related exercises. I'm sure I will find it to be helpful Count me in!

 

[Joe Nerve]

Thanks everyone.

Rethinking this though as a few things occurred to me last night.

Truth be told, I'm taking Jeff Berlin's bait and going to great lengths to prove something that doesn't need to be proved. For a lot of reasons too. First, using a metronome has helped my timing, and for me, that's all that really matter anyhow. I know it's helped others too, so what's the point of doing this? But what really clicked for me last night though (pun intended), was this...

When you practice at something, you get better at it. Period. If someone has trouble playing 16th notes at 20 BPM, guess what? If they practice at it, they will get better. Who could possibly argue that, and why am I even trying here. I can't possibly imagine anyone practicing doing something diligently without getting some sort of results.

This experiment can move along on it's own from this point, without any help from me. If I have some time later I'll post some metronome exercises, but for anyone who's having trouble with this - start practicing as much as you can (at least 15 minutes a day) using a metronome. Then come back in a month and see how well you fair with the 20 BPM test. If you stay committed, I promise you'll notice a difference.

No need to buy a metronome. There are lots online. Here's one that goes down to 20 METRONOME ONLINE FREE - Highly accessible version of metronome

A simple exercise is to just speed that 20 BPM up to a pace that you can play 16th notes to perfectly, and then play away for several minutes. Take short breaks and then slow it down a notch, or practice until you get it perfectly. Keep repeating. You can do this while practicing scales, riffs, or just riding a single note.

You can do the same playing 8th notes, playing 1/4 notes, breaking things up by playing on only the 2 and 3 between clicks.

Have a go at it for a month and then report back if you feel like doing so. Again, I promise you'll note a difference in your playing after doing this a while. And the best part is that, at least in my experience, you don't have to continue doing it. For me, once my timing got more accurate, it was like riding a bike. I still play with drum machines all the time, and a click occasionally (as well as many bands) so I'm sure that adds to keeping me in tune, but yeah... ya'll get the idea .

Sorry to abandon my own project so quickly but it's pure silliness. If you practice at something, you will get better at it. Science projects aren't needed to prove a point to what pretty much amounts to one person who vehemently disagrees, and will continue to do so no matter what facts or science is thrown in his face .

 

[Bassbeater]

Truth be told, I'm taking Jeff Berlin's bait

-I understand. JB is a great bassist no doubt, but don't let his circular paradoxical statements on music theory draw you in. You end up wondering if the sun is real and how you are going to convince people not to stare at it.
A for effort brother. No respect lost here.

 

[ZenG]

Yeah, I've become slightly obsessed with this metronome thing for a variety of reasons. Bottom line is I really am curious now as to whether or not working with a metronome REALLY helps people with their timing, and I've come up with an experiment that will help people here who have timing issues, and possibly prove the usefulness (or lack of) regarding metronomes.

Before telling what I'm looking for in volunteers, I'd like to say I welcome all ideas to help this experiment work more smoothly. I'm open to suggestion.

What I'd like is to get as many players as possible to work with me following some simple instructions and exercises to help better their sense of time.

To see if you'd make a good volunteer candidate, do this:

First, pick up your bass. It doesn't need to be plugged in. You can actually just tap it out on a desk too if your bass isn't around.

Now tap out 16th notes to this click. It's fine to take some time to get it right (about a minute or so), but once you do, maintain those 16th for 2 minutes:



If you struggle considerably, you're a good candidate for the experiment. Please volunteer.



I'll come up with the exercise routine over the next week or so, if this thread doesn't fall flat on it's face and I get enough volunteers.

In the meantime, everyone else is welcome to chime in. You can brag too if ya did the exercise with no problem at all .

Who in tarnation is Jeff Berlin? Is he famous or something?

 

[two fingers]

If I understand what you're saying, we're tapping out one tap on the click and three in between, right? Those 20 BPM are the quarter notes?

I got locked in about 20 seconds in. I was tapping thumb, index, middle, ring on my plucking hand. About 20 or 25 seconds in my thumb landed on the click.

Here's the thing. I don't follow how navigation such long spaces in between taps/clicks helps very much. I can't think of many (if any) songs I would play that would have 3 full seconds between time markers (be they click, kick and snare, or even acoustic guitar strums). And if the click were on the 16th notes, (80 BPM) keeping time would be even easier.

I'm confused as to how navigating such long spaces with no other instrumentation helps.

I got yer back @Joe Nerve ..... the moment I understand the point.

 

[Joe Nerve]

16!beats between clicks.

 

[Joe Nerve]

@two fingers , not ignoring ya today. Just a tough day at work. Only able to skim posts and leave short responses.

 

[mmon77]

16!beats between clicks.

Oh....if that's the case, I misunderstood. I was doing it the same as @two fingers .
.

 

[Oddly]

Oh....if that's the case, I misunderstood. I was doing it the same as @two fingers .
.

That's a relief.
Me too.
I almost fell asleep when I gave this a shot.

 

[jchrisk1]

When you practice at something, you get better at it. Period. If someone has trouble playing 16th notes at 20 BPM, guess what? If they practice at it, they will get better. Who could possibly argue that, and why am I even trying here. I can't possibly imagine anyone practicing doing something diligently without getting some sort of results.

I think this is, for the most part, JB's point. The metronome isn't what's giving you better time, it's the work you've put in achieving better results. Reading music, specifically counting/subdividing note values, is what teaches you timing. A metronome sets the pace at which you need to be able to fit those note values.

 

[Oddly]

I think this is, for the most part, JB's point. The metronome isn't what's giving you better time, it's the work you've put in achieving better results. Reading music, specifically counting/subdividing note values, is what teaches you timing. A metronome sets the pace at which you need to be able to fit those note values.

I've been reading JB's posts on this subject and just don't get it.
A metronome CAN help.
It's a tool, just as the bass itself is.
You might as well just not bother with the bass, if reading is what teaches timing.

 

[two fingers]

@two fingers , not ignoring ya today. Just a tough day at work. Only able to skim posts and leave short responses.

Oh I know you can't just sit around waitn' on me! Fuhgeduhbowdit.