Analyzing Neck Dive

[The Deep]

Neck dive is intolerable.

Do yourselves a favor and quickly move on to a properly designed, well balanced, and constructed instrument.

You don’t know what you’re missing and you will regret not having done it sooner.

 

[bizzybass]

Never heard of neck dive until I joined TB.

Maybe because I use very little thumb pressure on my fretting hand and counterbalance the pull of my fretting arm (similar to playing DB) with my left hand..

You must play P or J basses like the rest of us. When I was 16 I had to have one of these because WASP were one of my favs.

 

[gazzatriumph]

View attachment 3726116
Here’s how Sheldon Dingwall fixed neck dive when he reimagined the Thunderbird into the Dbird. Recessed strap locks, with the rear connection moved in on the body. Plus a generous belly cut.

Notice how the neck pocket gets the strap pin between the 14th and 15th frets, closer to 12. The headstock is a compact 2+2 with light Hipshot tuners.
Even though the E scale length is 36.25”, the reach to the nut is very easy. The bridge is pushed out to the end of the body.

This bass balances perfectly. I just flip my strap over so the strap locks point out. The blue suede underside of the strap looks great with the blue purple color shift metallic paint job.
View attachment 3726118
This one weighs in right around 8.5, but hangs very comfortably. It does roll out a bit, so fret gazing is not an option.

My first bass was a Kramer 450B, talk about a heavy neck diver! Nothing helped with that bass. I finally let it go.

I have a Kramer 350B although it's really heavy I've not experienced any neck dive, I had one in the early 80's too.

 

[gazzatriumph]

The only bass I had neck dive with was a Gretsch electromatic, looked great but had to move it on.

 

[Anthony Fury]

"Some people say "bass X has bad neck dive" - while others don't have an issue. I see this consistently... so the question is what is the difference?"

As has been said - geometry & strap mount points are definitely a factor.

What seems to be posted less (Smallmouth_Bass started getting into it), and which also answers the OP's "while others don't have an issue" part, is: component selection and body weight (and neck re-enforcement if any). Two geometrically identical basses can have way different centers of mass and thus two different "neck dive ratings."

Imagine two of (your favorite bass shape), both with the same strap points, except:

Bass #1 has a heavy ash body, no neck stiffening rods, and mini tuners
Bass #2 has a light alder body, steel stiffening rods, and full-size / full-metal Schaller elephant ears

My only bass for 15 years was set up like #2. Again, like most in here, I didn't know there was a term for it, I didn't ever think about it and just lived with it. It has probably the worst neck dive rating imaginable.

So: I threw together a (similarly shaped) bass like #1. The headstock "floats" by comparison and I have to admit - it makes a big difference in playability and is worth striving for.

Getting the mass out of the headstock is critical. There is a "mini" or "lightweight" option for pretty much every tuner bore / headstock shape. After that, start messing with strap mounting points.

 

[Outbush]

I have a friend whose bass can tilt down so badly the headstock is level with his knees or up to about mid torso. Throughout a gig it moves constantly. He plays an English J style bass with a headstock that looks like half a tree and I simply wouldn’t be able play it for the neck dive. I doubt he knows what neck dive even means. Good player too, and versatile.

 

[IanA]

My Precision had some pretty mild neck dive but it was nevertheless uncomfortable after playing for extended periods.
Gotoh Resolite tuners have improved it a lot, combined with a nice wide Gruv Gear strap...all isnow good!
I think that the problem was due to the body being so light.

 

[BergerHead]

Yes! You still need a balance point around the 12th fret though, otherwise it will dive (if it's a standard 34'' scale, anyway) - learned that the hard way. IME, the absolute best ergonomy is a "traditional" body shape / size with headless hardware. I had a bass made like this, it's an ergonomic dream.

View attachment 3725881

 

[Neko]

What seems to be posted less (Smallmouth_Bass started getting into it), and which also answers the OP's "while others don't have an issue" part,

As I was saying, I play a SG Bass and have no issue with the neck diving, but I have to say that I am quite large of shoulder, using a strap with raw leather underneath wich grip a lot and I wear my bass with the neck strap level with my belly button, so resonably high. So maybe, a combination of a lot of surface for the already gripping strap to grip plus a not so low wearing of the bass is why this one stay where needed?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

If you have an SG that balances, you hit the jackpot. I always loved that body shape, but couldn’t tolerate the dive on every one I picked up.

 

[Neko]

If you have an SG that balances, you hit the jackpot. I always loved that body shape, but couldn’t tolerate the dive on every one I picked up.

Forget to say, this a one from the last couple of years with the (massive) babizs bridge, it sure help.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Many say that their basses don't dive.
....and they unconsciously push down with their plucking arm and lift with their fretting hand.

 

[Neko]

Many say that their basses don't dive.
....and they unconsciously push down with their plucking arm and lift with their fretting hand.

Corcovado pose, dont dive, just so you know.

 

[BergerHead]

The fatigue on fighting a neck-diver ... one of the reasons i switched to the Steinberger; and there's others plenty.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Corcovado pose, dont dive, just so you know.

What you wrote makes absolutely no sense at all to me.
What's a "Corcovado pose"?

 

[Ric5]

HOW I STOP NECK DIVE

 

[Anthony Fury]

As I was saying, I play a SG Bass and have no issue with the neck diving, but I have to say that I am quite large of shoulder, using a strap with raw leather underneath wich grip a lot and I wear my bass with the neck strap level with my belly button, so resonably high. So maybe, a combination of a lot of surface for the already gripping strap to grip plus a not so low wearing of the bass is why this one stay where needed?

Those are great points also - the architecture of the human wearing the bass! So yeah, between different bass geometry and a person's build (and preference), then there's no wonder claims of neck dive or not vary like crazy.

 

[Neko]

You can say that it is not the Bass that neck dive, but your body who is not adapted

 

[eddybuzzard]

Folks, neck dive is very real, but not for me anymore, I fixed it!
I want to thank several posters here, for giving me the inspiration to realize an idea I've had for a while now.
Thank you!
I will be playing this one a lot more;

And now, face tilt, it is a very real thing, LOL!
Honestly, I can live with face tilt easier than a headstock always wanting to kiss the floor.
Putting the strap button right there in the back of the neck would have worked, but would be a little nuts...okay...a lot nuts.
This change of CoG also moves the tail piece further from my center, which brings the lower registers towards me, which is better for proper blood flow to my fretting hand, LOL!

Oh yeah, I got a roll of half dollars in the cavity to take out, I can go get a beer now, LOL!
It kinda looks like a B-Bender bass now, but can barely see it from the front.

 

[Boogiepop]

I went ahead, gritted my teeth, and moved the end strap pin about midway up the lower bout.

B.