Analyzing Neck Dive

[cool breeze]

Someone mentioned in a past post that the Guild b302 and 402 basses had neck dive. It was news to me as I played them in the 70's and early 80's and never realized it. Also learned about witness points when I joined this forum. Goes to show ignorance is bliss!

 

[Neko]

This is actually weird for me because I own a Gibs Sg Bass, and do not suffer from neck dive. I use a regular leather strap with schaller locking pins.

 

[EdO.]

Neck dive can only be truly fixed by changing the design (the balance points, specifically).

For about the umpteenth time I've posted this now... If you have a bass you like the looks/sound /playability of but don't like the neck dive, it's a relatively easy fix provided you have a method for relocating the front strap attachment point nearer the 12th fret. Ric5 offers a simple (but crude and unattractive) method for relocating the front strap attachment point farther forward to improve balance, this is a better one (see photos). I have a friend with a plasma cutter making these for me now and I had him make some for me recently. I have a few extras I'd part with if anyone is interested, PM me for more info.

 

[John Stephen]

I play sitting down almost all the time. I haven't measured neck dive analytically, I've just felt it and observed it. For me, when I've got the bass in my lap as comfortably as I can get it, and the headstock dives for the floor, that's my definition of dive. Every bass guitar I've ever owned has done it, but some a lot more than others (a Fender Jazz was the worst offender, for me). One of the guitar/bass makers -- it might be Schecter -- puts the rear strap button higher up on the butt end of the bass, instead of in the middle directly behind the bridge. At least on some of their models. Is that supposed to be for better balance, to combat neck dive?

 

[CherryPicker]

I think neck dive can sometimes affect one’s playing negatively (though subtly) without the player really noticing it.

+1

I had an Epi EB-3 that I didn't think would be a problem until first rehearsal with it. After about 5 or 6 songs my wrist and fingers started to lock up from holding the neck up and playing. My fingers felt like they were moving in mud. If I let go of the neck, it would drop almost straight down! (I used a 3" leather strap, not a seatbelt style strap too). Tried one more rehearsal, same result. Liked the sound but it had to go. Traded it in.

 

[InhumanResource]

Never heard of neck dive until I joined TB.

Maybe because I use very little thumb pressure on my fretting hand and counterbalance the pull of my fretting arm (similar to playing DB) with my left hand..

I don’t think it is a thing. Use a decent strap and hang at a reasonable height. Problem solved.

 

[Neko]

Why not loading a little plastic bag with metal balls, place it in the control cavity as a couterweight to the neck? Should solve some issue.

 

[InhumanResource]

Why not loading a little plastic bag with metal balls, place it in the control cavity as a couterweight to the neck? Should solve some issue.

Lol, I can imagine the classified ads on this site.

OP, weight? 9lbs 4oz without my bag of corrective ball bearings

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Moved the bottom strap pin on my T-Bird. No problem. And use the old strap pin for a small leather piece to hold guitar cord.
Works for me.

 

[John Stephen]

Did you just take a guess on how high up to locate that strap pin, or did you have a specific idea on where to put it?

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Did you just take a guess on how high up to locate that strap pin, or did you have a specific idea on where to put it?

I used my Spectors to approximate it. Then held bass with strap held in that position before actually mounting the Pin (Schaller Strap Locks in this case.)

 

[John Stephen]

Thanks. Nice work.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I used my Spectors to approximate it. Then held bass with strap held in that position before actually mounting the Pin (Schaller Strap Locks in this case.)

BTW... ever see a Spector neck through NS2 or NS4? The bottom strap pin is always mounted off set .

 

[John Stephen]

No, I'm not familiar with them. Will check 'em out. Some Schecters are also like that.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I play sitting down almost all the time. I haven't measured neck dive analytically, I've just felt it and observed it. For me, when I've got the bass in my lap as comfortably as I can get it, and the headstock dives for the floor, that's my definition of dive. Every bass guitar I've ever owned has done it, but some a lot more than others (a Fender Jazz was the worst offender, for me). One of the guitar/bass makers -- it might be Schecter -- puts the rear strap button higher up on the butt end of the bass, instead of in the middle directly behind the bridge. At least on some of their models. Is that supposed to be for better balance, to combat neck dive?

This is the issue while sitting because many sit with the bass on the right leg.
If you sit with it between your legs,it is propped between both legs and against your chest.
And no dive is realized.
Even with no strap.

 

[808P123]

anybody thats under 4 lbs is a good candidate for neck dive...not always but usually.

 

[singlemalt]

Here’s how Sheldon Dingwall fixed neck dive when he reimagined the Thunderbird into the Dbird. Recessed strap locks, with the rear connection moved in on the body. Plus a generous belly cut.

Notice how the neck pocket gets the strap pin between the 14th and 15th frets, closer to 12. The headstock is a compact 2+2 with light Hipshot tuners.
Even though the E scale length is 36.25”, the reach to the nut is very easy. The bridge is pushed out to the end of the body.

This bass balances perfectly. I just flip my strap over so the strap locks point out. The blue suede underside of the strap looks great with the blue purple color shift metallic paint job.

This one weighs in right around 8.5, but hangs very comfortably. It does roll out a bit, so fret gazing is not an option.

My first bass was a Kramer 450B, talk about a heavy neck diver! Nothing helped with that bass. I finally let it go.

 

[mikecd1]

I've taken off significant neck dive with lightweight tuners like Gotoh Resolite or Hipshot Ultralite and had excellent results with most. Some older Fenders especially with the heavy tulip tuners have benefited from this, but I will say there is a break point on some basses where they develop dead spots on the neck if there is not enough mass on the headstock further adding to the question of what is the design of the instrument. I've had to let a few go like that and have never added mass to the body to help a sinking neck so we all have a break point what we're willing to live / work with.

 

[John Stephen]

This is the issue while sitting because many sit with the bass on the right leg.
If you sit with it between your legs,it is propped between both legs and against your chest.
And no dive is realized.
Even with no strap.

I need my bass on my right leg. If I have it between my legs, it's hard for me to reach the first fret.

 

[JoeWPgh]

To me, there is neck dive, and then there is neck sag. Neck dive is just that, the headstock makes a break for the floor. Neck sag is where the neck settles down an inch or so. Sag doesn't bother me. Dive is a problem