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Ancient Technology Enthusiasts Club!

You Tube algorithm is weird. I've been suggested a "new guy" that (entertainingly) cusses all over the place, but for whatever reason isn't getting whacked. Glad for it in this case because he's got good content. I disclaimed that because I want to suggest him for all of you to check out, but due to language, the TB rules would consider it NSFW. So no vid to post.

His name is Milo Rossi, his yt is miniminuteman.

He's doing a series currently about this exact thing. I recommend it. I've known of Hancock for a while and have found his stuff intriguing. Let's just say Mr. Rossi has shed some light.

Maybe a mod could take a peek at a video and see if I can post one for you. Good content creator imho.
 
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bigstone.jpg


800 tons. Today, we barely have machinery that can lift this stone. This is in Baalbek. Pulling 800 tons with a bunch of ropes by thousands of people - it just doesn't seem possible. Though I'll be the first to admit that just because I can't imagine it, doesn't mean it's not true.
 
You Tube algorithm is weird. I've been suggested a "new guy" that (entertainingly) cusses all over the place, but for whatever reason isn't getting whacked. Glad for it in this case because he's got good content. I disclaimed that because I want to suggest him for all of you to check out, but due to language, the TB rules would consider it NSFW. So no vid to post.

His name is Milo Rossi, his yt is miniminuteman.

He's doing a series currently about this exact thing. I recommend it. I've known of Hancock for a while and have found his stuff intriguing. Let's just say Mr. Rossi has shed some light.

Maybe a mod could take a peek at a video and see if I can post one for you. Good content creator imho.
This Milo Rossi guy is absolutely hilarious, at the same time as one not to suffer fools gladly. Thank you very much for hipping us up to him. :thumbsup:
 
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I asked you who alleges those pyramids were built by people who "don’t have the same physical appearance as the current land owners." You said it, one would think you could say where you get that from.
(Besides, how would I go about "researching" that in the first place?)
Unless I haven't paid enough attention, there's nothing in the video about such racial claims. So I'll ask you again. And I'll also ask why, of all things, you believe them.

Whoa, Cornell. I don't feel anything about the guy. I'd never even heard of him until 15 minutes ago.
I've googled him now. There seems to be loads of folks who think that for me.

Nowhere does it say this thread is for "Graham Hancock enthusiasts", or "pseudoarchaeology enthusiasts".

My apologies for the snark in my reply, it was undeserved and I apologize for that.

Graham's body of work is excellent if you're into different ideas and opinions on ancient civilizations. He just looks at available evidence and tries to come to a conclusion that makes sense. He also dives pretty deep in psychedelics and how ancient cultures used them. He's done most of them, if not all, so he speaks from experience on that topic.

The China pyramid theory is just that, a theory. It's not something I believe in, I never claimed it was a fact. There's another theory that they are all simply burial mounds and therefore heavily restricted. Fact is, all we know is we will never know if they don't get explored and the research published. Until then, it's all speculation.
 
Dude, this is a thread to discuss ancient tech and civilizations, it’s all speculation because there is no sure way to know with certainty what really happened long ago. Maybe many advanced civies have come and gone over millenia, maybe we have been here for only 6000yrs and the Bible is exactly right. Our modern take on the past is simply a best guess based on the information we were given. Maybe if we had ALL the information or were allowed to continued to search properly, we might have a better understanding, but what we have is what we have to work with.

Point is, don’t let anyone get down on you for expressing an idea you have, even if it isn’t backed up by modern academia or some super smart person like Neil Degrasse Tyson hasn’t said it first. Good science is all about ideas, and anyone can have those. The other day I had a problem I was having difficulty solving and my 14 year old daughter gave me a totally different perspective on it which made resolving it very easy. No one should be berated or made to feel shame for sharing an idea, even a bad one.

On the one hand, it's true that "maybe" there are all kinds of things that we know nothing about because we don't have evidence about them. But that's not carte blanche to presume that anything whatsoever lives in the spaces we don't know - that's a kind of deus ex machina thinking, a "god of the gaps" where whatever gap exists in our evidence becomes an excuse to insert baseless hypotheses.

For instance, one technically can't prove that unicorns don't exist. But if we take a unicorn as described in medieval texts, as a large mammal etc., and compare it to everything we know in general about large mammals, then we would be justified in expecting that this animal occupied a certain habitat, that it needed a certain number of calories per day, that it would range over a certain amount of territory to obtain those calories from the local landscape, that there would need to be a certain number of such creatures to maintain a genetically viable breeding population... And all of that stuff means that, if unicorns existed, it's highly unlikely that we wouldn't have plenty of evidence of it - tracks, droppings, chewed plants, etc. If I've got a puzzle where half the pieces are missing but the pieces I have assembled clearly depict a cat, I don't know for sure what the missing parts of the puzzle depicted but chances are it isn't a scorpion or the Starship Enterprise.

It may well be the case that there are specific blocks in the pyramids that we don't know how the Egyptians placed them. Those kinds of claims, though, have a habit of disintegrating under examination - sooner or later someone DOES figure out how they did it. And even without that happening, it usually doesn't constitute grounds for assuming they used power tools or airlifted them into place or used psychic powers.

New ideas do require a certain amount of intuition and imagination, of course, and may seem crazy from the standpoint of the dominant paradigm of the time. Newton's physics look at a lot like magic from a 17th century point of view (an invisible force pulling two objects toward each other without them touching?). But they also respond to the range of evidence available in a full way, and set out what kind of evidence would be needed to verify or falsify them.

I saw a documentary about the greatest inventions in the past 500 years.

Top of the list was the Gutenberg printing press. Talk about the information age!

Perhaps the greatest technology item of all time was very simply, the wheel (and the ball).

maxresdefault.jpg

That is indeed a huge one. There was an article back when the internet was new, comparing the invention of the web to the invention of printing. What was interesting was that in both cases, the new technology had significant drawbacks relative to the old, and skeptical complaints about the new actually had considerable justification. For instance, a printing error could result in hundreds or thousand of copies that all had the error, whereas in an old handwritten manuscript proofreading could catch and correct the error before it got into readers' hands. In Puritan New England they printed a bunch of bibles before realizing they left the word "not" out of the commandment about adultery. But the sheer power and capabilities of the new tech overwhelmed all such objections.
 
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I'm just finishing up an interesting book; Across Atlantic Ice by D. Stanford & B. Bradley. Their proposition is that N America was not first settled by overland migration via the ice age Bering Sea bridge as is commonly accepted, but by Soultrean culture people from France's Bay of Biscay and northern Spain with seafaring abilities following prey species across the N Atlantic ice and/or exposed continental shelf during the Last Glacial Maximum. It goes into a detailed discussion of the similarities between stone knapping technologies of the Eropean Soultrean and North American Clovis tool assemblages. Pretty cool, and rather convincing.
 
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The baalbek obelisk is so cool. Is there proof it was moved there? Is this like the one in Egypt it's huge and impressive, yes, but it never left the spot it was carved.

According to Wikipedia:

stones.jpg


Baalbek Stones - Wikipedia

So these three were moved. There are bigger and heavier ones that lie where they were quarried.
 
no way i am going to believe a stone like that was formed with bronze age tools, until someone actually does it.
while someone can look up the specs on a big crane and it says it will lift one of those stones, it doesn't mean it has the ability to lift it into the space they occupy today. cranes and other lifting devices are limited in how far from the lifting body they can move something. there is also other factors like wind. i have been rigging loads for 3 decades as part of my trade. i know what it takes to lift heavy things that are much smaller than that. anyone who believes that stuff was moved with a bunch of guys who had ropes has no idea what moving heavy things entails. they also probably don't know how ropes are made. it requires the same amount of suspended disbelief to think harry potter did it with a magic wand.
 
Good science is all about ideas, and anyone can have those.


Coincidentally, I was just discussing this very concept with a scientist friend of mine yesterday. We both agreed that there is a public misconception about what makes good science, particularly a belief that coming up with original ideas is the fundamental concept, which is simply untrue.

As you said, anyone can have ideas. But that's the easy part. Knowing how to process those ideas is where the science comes in. The reality is, the vast majority of new or original ideas, regardless of who comes up with them, are wrong and it takes the "sieve" of the scietific method (in all its complexity) to eliminate the bad ideas, revealing the few useful ones.

One particular example is the idea being promoted by Elon Musk that we can set up a self sustaining human colony on Mars that might serve as a hedge against humanity going extinct on Earth.

Musk has a degree in engineering, which technically puts him among the ranks of professional scientists, but his idea of a self sustaining colony on Mars being feasible with technology available to us within the next few centuries is simply unrealistic. He's basing his belief on the assumption that all we need to do is solve a few engineering problems and we'll be good to go.

But, the problem is not one of engineering new technology. It's a much more fundamental obstacle of living on a planet that lacks adequate air, food, water, and many other resources, without having a critical mass of people necessary to maintain that highly advanced technology without it being supplied by constant delivery of materials and products from Earth.

The more complicated and advanced technology that exists, the greater the number of people needed to maintain it.

Realistically, a viable, self sustaining Mars colony would require at least a few hundred million people simply to keep the existing life maintaining technology in good working order.

I partly blame a popular quote from Einstein for the public misconception. He famously stated, "Imagination is more important than knowledge."

He was trying to make a statement about the value of original thinking when trying to solve problems that have long been unresolved through conventional methods.

Unfortunately, it's taken on a much broader meaning and is commonly interpreted as describing a kind of "new age" inspired concept where the road to knowledge is constructed by brainstorming new ideas, and the more bizarre the better.

What science is really about is systematically putting ideas through a process of skeptical inquiry, where you're really trying to disprove your idea. No good scientist ever sets about trying to find facts that support their idea, no matter how fondly they might think of it.

They go out of their way to find any possible flaw in their idea. Because if they don't, then their colleagues almost certainly will.
 
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Coincidentally, I was just discussing this very concept with a scientist friend of mine yesterday. We both agreed that there is a public misconception about what makes good science, particularly a belief that coming up with original ideas is the fundamental concept, which is simply untrue.

As you said, anyone can have ideas. But that's the easy part. Knowing how to process those ideas is where the science comes in. The reality is, the vast majority of new or original ideas, regardless of who comes up with them, are wrong and it takes the "sieve" of the scietific method (in all its complexity) to eliminate the bad ideas, revealing the few useful ones.

One particular example is the idea being promoted by Elon Musk that we can set up a self sustaining human colony on Mars that might serve as a hedge against humanity going extinct on Earth.

Musk has a degree in engineering, which technically puts him among the ranks of professional scientists, but his idea of a self sustaining colony on Mars being feasible with technology available to us within the next few centuries is simply unrealistic. He's basing his belief on the assumption that all we need to do is solve a few engineering problems and we'll be good to go.

But, the problem is not one of engineering new technology. It's a much more fundamental obstacle of living on a planet that lacks adequate air, food, water, and many other resources, without having a critical mass of people necessary to maintain that highly advanced technology without it being supplied by constant delivery of materials and products from Earth.

The more complicated and advanced technology that exists, the greater the number of people needed to maintain it.

Realistically, a viable, self sustaining Mars colony would require at least a few hundred million people simply to keep the existing life maintaining technology in good working order.

I partly blame a popular quote from Einstein for the public misconception. He famously stated, "Imagination is more important than knowledge."

He was trying to make a statement about the value of original thinking when trying to solve problems that have long been unresolved through conventional methods.

Unfortunately, it's taken on a much broader meaning and is commonly interpreted as describing a kind of "new age" inspired concept where the road to knowledge is constructed by brainstorming new ideas, and the more bizarre the better.

What science is really about is systematically putting ideas through a process of skeptical inquiry, where you're really trying to disprove your idea. No good scientist ever sets about trying to find facts that support their idea, no matter how fondly they might think of it.

They go out of their way to find any possible flaw in their idea. Because if they don't, then their colleagues almost certainly will.

There's a quote from Linus Pauling I'll paraphrase from when someone asked him how he came up with so many good ideas. He said he just comes up with lots of ideas and gets rid of the bad ones.

Unfortunately, as he got older he faltered in that second step. :laugh:
 
One particular example is the idea being promoted by Elon Musk that we can set up a self sustaining human colony on Mars that might serve as a hedge against humanity going extinct on Earth.

Musk has a degree in engineering, which technically puts him among the ranks of professional scientists, but his idea of a self sustaining colony on Mars being feasible with technology available to us within the next few centuries is simply unrealistic. He's basing his belief on the assumption that all we need to do is solve a few engineering problems and we'll be good to go.

But, the problem is not one of engineering new technology. It's a much more fundamental obstacle of living on a planet that lacks adequate air, food, water, and many other resources, without having a critical mass of people necessary to maintain that highly advanced technology without it being supplied by constant delivery of materials and products from Earth.

The more complicated and advanced technology that exists, the greater the number of people needed to maintain it.

Realistically, a viable, self sustaining Mars colony would require at least a few hundred million people simply to keep the existing life maintaining technology in good working order.

No matter how badly we screw up the earth, it would still be easier to maintain the human species here, than terraforming Mars.
 
Really fascinated by Mayan technology. It’s a near certainty they were using polished optics in their observatories. Because they were known to be skilled at crystal working and also why slot spy holes in observatories that alone with planets and galaxies not visible to the naked eye but easily observed with limited magnification? It’s not a stretch to think they can carve a lens if they can carve a crystal skull or tool.

Also a guide told me Chichen Itza means the wizard of water of the wizard of the water well. That can’t be true. But that’s what he said. Seems shady.
The Mayan civilization is indeed full of many mysteries and inventions. I have always wondered how they were able to create their hieroglyphic writing and the famous Mayan calendar.
 
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I realize that I'm late to the discussion, but here's a great little amateur film about ancient technologies. If you've got three hours, it's worth a shot.

Ancient Aliens Debunked - (full movie) HD - YouTube
That's one of those shows that I love, hate and love to hate. I've probably seen every episode over the last 20+ yrs. Similar to the ghost hunting shows. Except, I haven't watched all those and only hate them. I can barely make it through an entire single ghost hunter show. They're just so incredibly stupid and there's nothing of interest in the background. With the alien show, there's actually a lot of ancient archeology that they reference, that I find very interesting and I can further look into. But when they cite aliens for it, I yell at the TV and mock them. Even without being educated in any of the fields or history mentioned in the vid, it's still completely obvious that they are all completely full of BS. I wouldn't even call it a "theory", as they are knowingly and deliberately making crap up. They're all authors, trying to sell books and make TV shows. Just like Sitchin and Von Daniken, just like the people selling bigfoot, mothman, lock ness, chrystal skulls, yada yada.
I don't really feel there's a need to spend the effort to debunk anything that ridiculous.
On the topic of ancient cultures and their capabilities, I do believe that humans knew more and were able to do more, much further back in our history than has been thought in the past. I have no issue with believing humans could build large megalithic structures, not only 5k yrs ago, but 10, 15 and even 20k yrs ago. I don't think all humans were cave people that used rocks and chicken bones as tools prior to 6k yrs ago and I don't believe aliens showed up and showed them how to do it.
It used to be blasphemy to suggest that humans were anything more than half-apes, chucking spears at mammoths before 6k yrs ago. New discoveries in the last few decades has turned that on its head and I find it all very interesting. I also find the sudden end of the last ice age very fascinating and what humans may have been doing/accomplishing in the 70k+ yrs before it ended catastrophically and many of them were lost, along with the mega fauna. Can't wait for more research and discoveries.
Unfortunately, we don't spend much money or effort on it. People spend more time/money looking for shipwrecks and treasure, than looking 400' below the coastlines for ancient human settlements. So, the research and discoveries will come in small bits, far and few between.
No one is searching in the Sahara either. I'll bet there's plenty buried out there, from when it was green
 
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