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Another Red Flag On The Ampeg PF-500.....

#421
Bowe said:
And google can't be biased or skewed and are you implying that people who buy one are blind?? I studied the amp and its reliability profile before making my purchase. My little bit of research told me that there is a highly vocal minority that had 'the problem' (the worst case had several - as a technical type it makes me wonder about environmental conditions in that case) the vast majority of those failures were easily traced to units from the first year of production (the remaining ones seemed to be first year units that had been on store shelves for up to a year) and there are very few mentions of 'the problem' on the European sites. It ain't hard to remember people will complain much more if it breaks than post something like hey mine is just fine, and with the PF500 it seems many can't get past the fact that there have been improvements to the product.

BTW google probably knows your opinion of the PF500 and gives you the results they think you want.
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Not if I do it on a machine of somebody's that doesn't surf talkbass or buy amplifiers....it gets the same results. Which is the TB forums with a few subtitles/threads to click that have that name in the title. BTW, this thread wasn't one of them, but it's easy enough to find TB, then punch that in the search box here. TB was the only result that wasn't either a major retailer, youtube, or Ampegs own site.

I know google spies on us, hence trying a different computer that doesn't have cookies of me or the subject matter.

It's not that I don't like the amp. I gave my neighbor here honest information and options, and we'll likely be generating a new product sale for ampeg, whether that's a new circuit board or a new pf350 remains to be seen. It's not like I bashed the whole brand and tried to sell him a GK or something. I don't harp on this stuff at home near as much as I do on the internet. :D
 
#422
will33 said:
Not if I do it on a machine of somebody's that doesn't surf talkbass or buy amplifiers....it gets the same results. Which is the TB forums with a few subtitles/threads to click that have that name in the title. BTW, this thread wasn't one of them, but it's easy enough to find TB, then punch that in the search box here. TB was the only result that wasn't either a major retailer, youtube, or Ampegs own site.

I know google spies on us, hence trying a different computer that doesn't have cookies of me or the subject matter.

It's not that I don't like the amp. I gave my neighbor here honest information and options, and we'll likely be generating a new product sale for ampeg, whether that's a new circuit board or a new pf350 remains to be seen. It's not like I bashed the whole brand and tried to sell him a GK or something. I don't harp on this stuff at home near as much as I do on the internet. :D
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This thread alone was responsible for me forgoing my purchase of the PF500. I did get the PF350 though, so they still sold a unit.

And to the jokers here trying to blame the malfunctioning amps on user error: Why are you blaming the victims?
 
#423
Fat Steve said:
And to the jokers here trying to blame the malfunctioning amps on user error: Why are you blaming the victims?
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It's like JimmyM said, there's one camp of posters in this thread who are just bashing Ampeg and have zero intentions of ever buying an Ampeg head, and then there's the other camp that simply cannot believe Ampeg would ever release a flawed product, so they blame the victims for Ampeg's screw up.

Of course, this is looking at everything from the most extreme and polar opposite perspectives. There are some middle ground posts, but no one likes responding to those :D
 
#425
jmattbassplaya said:
It's like JimmyM said, there's one camp of posters in this thread who are just bashing Ampeg and have zero intentions of ever buying an Ampeg head, and then there's the other camp that simply cannot believe Ampeg would ever release a flawed product, so they blame the victims for Ampeg's screw up.

Of course, this is looking at everything from the most extreme and polar opposite perspectives. There are some middle ground posts, but no one likes responding to those :D
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OR they get perverted by one "side" or the other? ;)
 
#426
jmattbassplaya said:
It's like JimmyM said, there's one camp of posters in this thread who are just bashing Ampeg and have zero intentions of ever buying an Ampeg head, and then there's the other camp that simply cannot believe Ampeg would ever release a flawed product, so they blame the victims for Ampeg's screw up.

Of course, this is looking at everything from the most extreme and polar opposite perspectives. There are some middle ground posts, but no one likes responding to those :D
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Isn't this what always happens on TB?
 
#428
Mastermold said:
Isn't this what always happens on TB?
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But isn't that part of the fun? :)

I could've easily told the guy loud bought ampeg, moved everything to china and all they make is crap now and they're a waste of money, then cherrypicked a few users who got lemons and said, "see, they're all junk", but that would've been just as dishonest as ampeg blaming their customers for the lemons.

Instead, we're helping the guy bring his 100% failure rate down to 50% without spending more than is necessary and generating a new sale for ampeg at the same time.

If that one also fails, then we can call it crap and shop elsewhere. Maybe let him crank the snot out of my 20+ year old 400rb for a while, rattle the house, then help him find one of his own for less than $200, paint it black, bolt it to the fliptop lid, put the knobs from the broken ampeg on there and call it a day. The thing would probably still be playing at his funeral. :)
 
#429
Fat Steve said:
This thread alone was responsible for me forgoing my purchase of the PF500. I did get the PF350 though, so they still sold a unit.

And to the jokers here trying to blame the malfunctioning amps on user error: Why are you blaming the victims?
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As far as I am aware, there are two different failures being reported.

1) Cut out: Results from pushing amp too hard and putting it into protect mode. This is often due too improperly setting the input gain. It is not so much a failure as an undesirable result from the amps protection circuitry. (some consider this a design flaw)

2) Actual Failure or Smoked Board: Results from ??? Some units die quickly, others last for months or years before failing. (likely component failure)

Many posters seem to mix up or confuse the two very separate issues.
 
#430
Bitterdale said:
As far as I am aware, there are two different failures being reported.

1) Cut out: Results from pushing amp too hard and putting it into protect mode. This is often due too improperly setting the input gain. It is not so much a failure as an undesirable result from the amps protection circuitry. (some consider this a design flaw)

2) Actual Failure or Smoked Board: Results from ??? Some units die quickly, others last for months or years before failing. (likely component failure)

Many posters seem to mix up or confuse the two very separate issues.
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I have zero interest in Ampeg, but am the keeper of the Class D/SMPS flame, and have been using this class of amp almost exclusively for 20 years. NO other class D amp that I know of 'shuts down' for any reason whatsoever OTHER than bad power (which is a rare, rare occurrence). They will compress, or 'tube emulate' or just soft limit, or whatever the designer decided to do when the amp hits its designed output limit.

So again, IF an amp of ANY design shuts down when you push it, this is a failure in every sense of the word, and makes the amp unusable in a professional situation.

Just sayin':p I HATE when people blame this kind of poor design/quality on 'class D':rollno:
 
#431
Bitterdale said:
As far as I am aware, there are two different failures being reported.

1) Cut out: Results from pushing amp too hard and putting it into protect mode. This is often due too improperly setting the input gain. It is not so much a failure as an undesirable result from the amps protection circuitry. (some consider this a design flaw)

2) Actual Failure or Smoked Board: Results from ??? Some units die quickly, others last for months or years before failing. (likely component failure)

Many posters seem to mix up or confuse the two very separate issues.
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This particular one is the actual fail, no sound ever, not going into protect and then coming back with power cycling.
 
#432
KJung said:
NO other class D amp that I know of 'shuts down' for any reason whatsoever OTHER than bad power (which is a rare, rare occurrence). They will compress, or 'tube emulate' or just soft limit, or whatever the designer decided to do when the amp hits its designed output limit.

So again, IF an amp of ANY design shuts down when you push it, this is a failure in every sense of the word, and makes the amp unusable in a professional situation.

Just sayin':p I HATE when people blame this kind of poor design/quality on 'class D':rollno:
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A big +1
 
#433
Class D has its issues, mostly to the ear more than anything else. These failures sound like a design flaw, nothing specific to class D.

Sounds pretty bad to me if they are already on Rev J for a board that has been in production for a while and the issue is still happening.
 
#434
jazzy grille said:
Class D has its issues, mostly to the ear more than anything else. These failures sound like a design flaw, nothing specific to class D.

Sounds pretty bad to me if they are already on Rev J for a board that has been in production for a while and the issue is still happening.
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I don't know how many, if even any, fails are the latest rev. boards. IMO, they haven't been out long enough to know.

There've been reported fails as late as July of this year, but those could've easily been earlier revs that hadn't been bought yet. OP's was a rev. C

Takes a while for the newer ones to get made, get here on the slow boat, and end up in the retail system after the older revs have been sold out.
 
#435
JimmyM said:
Geez, and here all this time I thought Hodgy's posts in this thread did exactly that. I guess you have to read between the lines when someone says, "We've made several revisions to fix problems people have had" and "On behalf of Ampeg, I'm sorry" to get the part where they didn't admit to it.
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Ah yes... the non-apology apology.

"This kind of apology shifts the blame onto the offended party, and denies personal acceptance of wrongdoing, as in "I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said".

The "if" implies that the apologiser either doesn't even know they did wrong (and did not bother to find out) or else does not acknowledge that they did wrong and so are pretending to apologise because they feel obligated to rather than because they are actually sorry.

There is no confirmation that the apologiser actually regrets anything or has learnt anything from what they did that was wrong."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
 
#438
aborgman said:
Ah yes... the non-apology apology.

"This kind of apology shifts the blame onto the offended party, and denies personal acceptance of wrongdoing, as in "I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said".

The "if" implies that the apologiser either doesn't even know they did wrong (and did not bother to find out) or else does not acknowledge that they did wrong and so are pretending to apologise because they feel obligated to rather than because they are actually sorry.

There is no confirmation that the apologiser actually regrets anything or has learnt anything from what they did that was wrong."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
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It sound very sarcastic to me
 
#440
hodgy said:
Fine, I'm not sorry I took the money!! /Pee Wee Herman/
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Mmm... Egg salad-y...

I'll just repeat that these warnings/experience of problems threads possibly saved me a ton of grief, and I hate to gamble... So I'm thankful for that.
Anyone recommending or buying or defending these after knowing about the failures regardless of revision trouble me... Would you really buy anything that you depend on to do your job that could crap out at any given moment without warning ? I don't think a pro would, and it's probably worse for a kid with NO money...
 

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