Another Red Flag On The Ampeg PF-500.....

[Rockin Mike]

Well that may be And no, it's not like I have my head in the sand here. I see what's going on. I also saw Ampeg do its level best to help out those with problems, so I think it's important also to take that into consideration.

I don't see them doing their best, I see them doing the minimum they can get away with in honoring their warranties.

If they really wanted to treat their (past and future) customers right they would recall the faulty design and make it right for any owner of a rev C board. These are not individual mistakes that somehow got through QC so warranty is not the appropriate paradigm to do right by their customers.

I've owned and enjoyed Ampeg stuff in the past. Nowadays I use Sansamp because I can't trust the Ampeg name. Sad, really.

 

[Rockin Mike]

I agree

Sadly, It's like this with everything these days. The parts are most likely the cheaper part of the fix. The labor is what drives the cost up on a repair. so I don't blame the amp techs at all for going that route on repairs. I'm sure the amp techs don't make that much on parts mark up anyway.

As customers we should be grateful that replaceable board technology makes repairs cheaper for us. No blaming the techs!

 

[Pimmsley]

I'm not so sure.

I'd be willing to wager there are less bass players (potential customers) out there who even know about the whole loud technologies buy or the whole vietnam--->china move thing. There are still a ton of people out there who see the name Ampeg, and immediately think "american made quality", as if anything and everything that carries that name must be good...it couldn't possibly be anything other than good. I've experienced this first-hand with that guys pf rig and he's not the only one.


Let's not forget, the vast majority of bass players have never even heard of talkbass let alone spent any time here.


It's the same reason GenzBenz seems so widely popular here, yet out in the real world, you have to look pretty hard to find someone playing one....around here anyway.


Just goes to show the "brand impression over substance" or "perception is reality" thing. Hell, around here you'll still see at least a dozen leadsleds and tube amps for every one micro. If you use talkbass to judge things, you'd think micros are all there is.

Thanks, because I feel much the same way and as have mentioned earlier I almost bought into a PF head based on my prior brand association or assumptions... It wasn't until finding these threads and TB in general that I got a schooling in current brand ownership (of many I was unaware of) and I think that does matter, especially when engineers, knowledge and experience do not transfer across... Its really not the same company or products at all.
Also, being located in Australia, faulty products are a PITA to get repaired under warranty if you are trying to save hundreds of $ by buying direct from the US. So reliability plays a huge role in gear decisions.
The result now is I just don't think the company called Ampeg today is even remotely related to the company that made my 410 cab from the 90's... I don't really understand people who comment on TB about ampeg having this long history of making amps, to me that Ampeg ended when loud bought them and didn't take the engineering talent. Correct me if I'm wrong...
To repeat myself, I think that is really important to know. I saved myself a huge amount of stress and found an almost perfect head for my needs due to people here giving suggestions and explaining in detail their experience, joys and follies with gear.
I still have and use an old Trace Elliot head I bought in 92' (used, to boot)... I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect a well designed and made piece of gear to last 10-20 years... Anyway, rant over

 

[JimmyM]

The result now is I just don't think the company called Ampeg today is even remotely related to the company that made my 410 cab from the 90's... I don't really understand people who comment on TB about ampeg having this long history of making amps, to me that Ampeg ended when loud bought them and didn't take the engineering talent. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Well put it this way...in the 90's, the cabs were made of OSB and not plywood as they are now, the high end stuff using baltic birch. With the exception of one I don't particularly care for, the heads that SLM made were really good sounding, and to me, the heads that LOUD makes that SLM also made sound equally good and have worked fine, except for a couple rentals I used in 2008 that were broken. Back then, they REALLY had problems, but there was a big shakeup in 2008 at LOUD, and the head idiot in charge of LOUD got canned, and since then, I think they really got their act together. Yes, some of the PF heads have had problems, but I know plenty of folks who use them on a regular basis totally problem free, too, and I've never had a problem with my PF350 or any of the PF heads that I've played at stores.

And I'm sure for that I'll get called a "shill" by some of the more classless on here who should really know better, but I was highly critical of Ampeg during the first couple years of LOUD ownership and I was very skeptical of them getting it together for a couple years afterward. Plus I've lived my whole life without an endorsement of any kind until 2 years ago and certainly didn't need one because I had plenty of older Ampeg stuff already, including the two king daddies of the Ampeg line, a 69 first-run SVT with a 73 flatback and a 64 B-15N. But they offered and I figured why not. There are a handful of Ampeg products they make currently that I don't care for and I've always discussed my opinions of them honestly. And I certainly don't need or appreciate the flack over my integrity that I've gotten from people who claimed to be my friends and have known me forever on here. But I'm not going to lie just to please them...don't really care what anyone thinks, to be honest. I play mostly new Ampeg stuff because I like it as much as I like my old stuff. Anyone who has a problem with that can join my ignore list.

So take that as you will, bro. Feel free to reject if you want. I don't get commissions

 

[Pimmsley]

Well put it this way...in the 90's, the cabs were made of OSB and not plywood as they are now, the high end stuff using baltic birch. With the exception of one I don't particularly care for, the heads that SLM made were really good sounding, and to me, the heads that LOUD makes that SLM also made sound equally good and have worked fine, except for a couple rentals I used in 2008 that were broken. Back then, they REALLY had problems, but there was a big shakeup in 2008 at LOUD, and the head idiot in charge of LOUD got canned, and since then, I think they really got their act together. Yes, some of the PF heads have had problems, but I know plenty of folks who use them on a regular basis totally problem free, too, and I've never had a problem with my PF350 or any of the PF heads that I've played at stores.

And I'm sure for that I'll get called a "shill" by some of the more classless on here who should really know better, but I was highly critical of Ampeg during the first couple years of LOUD ownership and I was very skeptical of them getting it together for a couple years afterward. Plus I've lived my whole life without an endorsement of any kind until 2 years ago and certainly didn't need one because I had plenty of older Ampeg stuff already, including the two king daddies of the Ampeg line, a 69 first-run SVT with a 73 flatback and a 64 B-15N. But they offered and I figured why not. There are a handful of Ampeg products they make currently that I don't care for and I've always discussed my opinions of them honestly. And I certainly don't need or appreciate the flack over my integrity that I've gotten from people who claimed to be my friends and have known me forever on here. But I'm not going to lie just to please them...don't really care what anyone thinks, to be honest. I play mostly new Ampeg stuff because I like it as much as I like my old stuff. Anyone who has a problem with that can join my ignore list.

So take that as you will, bro. Feel free to reject if you want. I don't get commissions

Well I don't think your a 'shill', I think you genuinely enjoy your gear and rightfully defend senseless bashing of brands in general... I also thoroughly enjoy reading your posts, dig your sense of humour and noticed you help and educate people whenever you can, so we're cool...
Like I said I like to learn about this stuff and be corrected where appropriate. I agree the cabs are probably made better than ever, and my comments were more directed at company history and reliability with respect to who ampeg actually are today, rather than sound quality or even the motives of LOUD as a company.
I hope you can also respect why I said what I said.

 

[lbbc]

I purchased a pf-500 and haven't had any issues as of yet. I have pushed it on several occasions with my band and "so far so good".

When I was looking for a new head a few months ago, the pf-500 was recommended by many here at TB....before a rash of problems were realized. But, you take your chance with any amp purchase.....I've heard of people having issues with Orange and others swear by them. It was the same case with SWR. So, buy what sounds good to you and take care of it the best way possible. If it fails, hopefully it will still be under warranty.

 

[B-string]

Did I miss IF the one reported PF-800 is ACTUALLY failing? IIRC a different amp was put into service that also failed ending that gig. That would logically point to a venue power problem. Sure it is possible two different amp brand failed similarly on the same night but the current demands from a bass amp are the highest (on stage).
Has that PF-800 been tried since? I may have missed it so help me out here, I just haven't seen conclusively yet that a PF-800 has actually failed.

 

[JimmyM]

Well I don't think your a 'shill', I think you genuinely enjoy your gear and rightfully defend senseless bashing of brands in general... I also thoroughly enjoy reading your posts, dig your sense of humour and noticed you help and educate people whenever you can, so we're cool...
Like I said I like to learn about this stuff and be corrected where appropriate. I agree the cabs are probably made better than ever, and my comments were more directed at company history and reliability with respect to who ampeg actually are today, rather than sound quality or even the motives of LOUD as a company.
I hope you can also respect why I said what I said.

Thank you, and yes, I do respect your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to have whatever opinion you like. But you did ask to be corrected if anyone thought you were wrong Not that I think you're wrong to have your opinion...I just disagree.

 

[cableguy]

I have still been playing my PF-500 that I bought used about a month ago. No issues at all. My brother was having issues with his new PF-500 so I went to take a look at it. Total operator error. He was running the gain too hot and the limiter was kicking in a lot. His even had a few momentary shut downs for second or two which is the amp going into protect mode I believe. Once I spent a little time going over how to set the input gain for his active bass, his amp has worked flawlessly. Now my little bro is over 40, a decent player who just doesn't know gear. Not saying there haven't been problems, (there have) but a certain percentage could be self inflicted.

 

[KJung]

I have still been playing my PF-500 that I bought used about a month ago. No issues at all. My brother was having issues with his new PF-500 so I went to take a look at it. Total operator error. He was running the gain too hot and the limiter was kicking in a lot. His even had a few momentary shut downs for second or two which is the amp going into protect mode I believe. Once I spent a little time going over how to set the input gain for his active bass, his amp has worked flawlessly. Now my little bro is over 40, a decent player who just doesn't know gear. Not saying there haven't been problems, (there have) but a certain percentage could be self inflicted.

It continues to amaze me that an amp would shut down by setting the knobs a certain way. I never heard of this with ANY other amp. That is NOT user error, that is poor design. Makes no sense whatsoever.

A well designed limiter will, well, limit no matter how the knobs are set, or how loud the amp is played.

 

[KJung]

Thank you, and yes, I do respect your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to have whatever opinion you like. But you did ask to be corrected if anyone thought you were wrong Not that I think you're wrong to have your opinion...I just disagree.

Just make sure to post often about the ridiculous $300 cost of replacing the board in the PF500 posted above for the next year or two in various threads. Then we will know you are totally above board on all of this

 

[hennessybass]

Not here to bash Ampeg,, just sharing my opinion. I think they have made some really great stuff but also make some really bad stuff. As far as some of the current offerings like the PF series and the 7pro, I personal would not buy one, and would not trust one.

Amps die on you, I get it, but you got to try to minimize that by buying good gear and keeping your gear in working order. I have had a Hartke and an AMP die on me at shows. It happens... but both of those amps were at least 10 years old at the time, and got fixed easily by a local tech for not that much money.

The whole "disposable amp" thing is not for me,,, and that is how I think of some of these amps. Buy an amp for $600, it breaks and the repair cost is half the cost of the amp, can't be done by any old tech... no thanks. I had a LMII that I sold to a guy, and it died on him. The repair was so expensive that he threw it away. That is just crazy when I think about the b15 sitting at my house that is 40+ years old and rock solid.

Being out on the road, or at a show and living with the fear of your amp dying on stage is not cool. I have a TH350 and feel really good about it. Jimmy said something about trying a TH350 and it distorting through a SL112. I believe that, and I think that is just he way that amp is. The gain control can really distort the amp, and not a very nice distortion, and this is especially true through a small cab. This is IMO and IME having played a TH350 with a Baer 112, an Ampeg SVT210, and a Berg CN212, and an Aguilar DB212. It took me a while to figure out the tone stack on the TH amp (the gain is more like a harmonic content / distortion control and drive is more like tone controls). You will see most guys on the TH treads keeping their gain down in the 8, 9, 10 o'clock range. That's really low. It's not like an Ampeg amp in that sense.

I have heard of 1 issue with a TH amp here on TB, and the guy got in touch with Aguilar that day to remedy the problem. By comparison, ya know?

 

[MrCool84]

It continues to amaze me that an amp would shut down by setting the knobs a certain way. I never heard of this with ANY other amp. That is NOT user error, that is poor design. Makes no sense whatsoever.

A well designed limiter will, well, limit no matter how the knobs are set, or how loud the amp is played.

+1...... Ok +1000

 

[JimmyM]

Just make sure to post often about the ridiculous $300 cost of replacing the board in the PF500 posted above for the next year or two in various threads. Then we will know you are totally above board on all of this

If that's true, I'm definitely not for it. BTW, I've also heard that price quoted for a PF350 motherboard as well, which seems strange since the amp itself costs that much.

 

[MrCool84]

Btw had a PF 500 for two weeks and it shut down on me at a gig. An open mic night but a gig. I own a rumble 350. And solid as a rock at the same volume. Obviously the tone of the PF was much better guess what amp I still own. My gripe is way back in the pf appreciation thread some where.

 

[cableguy]

It continues to amaze me that an amp would shut down by setting the knobs a certain way. I never heard of this with ANY other amp. That is NOT user error, that is poor design. Makes no sense whatsoever.

A well designed limiter will, well, limit no matter how the knobs are set, or how loud the amp is played.

The limiter was just making it sound bad. IMO I believe it was going into protect mode because the gain was way too high and was clipping the amp badly. But my GK will sound badly if I overdrive the input that much too. SS amps just don't overdrive as sweet as tubes, again IMO.

 

[cableguy]

Not here to bash Ampeg,, just sharing my opinion. I think they have made some really great stuff but also make some really bad stuff.

I would agree with this.....

 

[KJung]

The limiter was just making it sound bad. IMO I believe it was going into protect mode because the gain was way too high and was clipping the amp badly. But my GK will sound badly if I overdrive the input that much too. SS amps just don't overdrive as sweet as tubes, again IMO.

That is a different issue. An amp should virtually never, ever shut down, other than due to bad wiring or some sort of electrical problem. Limiters/power management circuits are designed so that the power section does NOT go into clip. They should never 'shut down' an amp. That is the protection circuitry, that should, under normal circumstances, only shut the amp down to avoid a catastrophic problem.

Again, this is a design issue, and is in NO WAY user error. Of course, if you turn an amp down that shuts down when you turn it up, then it most likely won't shut down That is like the old joke 'Patient: Dr. it hurts when I bend my elbow. Dr: Then don't bend your elbow

In addition, there is plenty of ability to grit and grind and overdrive most amps at the preamp level that are designed to do that. Totally separate issue.

 

[cableguy]

The whole "disposable amp" thing is not for me,,, and that is how I think of some of these amps. Buy an amp for $600, it breaks and the repair cost is half the cost of the amp, can't be done by any old tech... no thanks.

I would have to agree with this as well. My PF-500 is a practice rig. My main rig is an SVP-Pro/power amp. My PF is used so I don't have to drag my rack around all the time. It sucks there have been some issues, part of my point I guess is that some people expect too much out of a micro. I don't have to push mine at all. And no matter what rig I use I always carry my BDDI with me for back-up. Why, cause any rig can fail.

 

[Fat Steve]

I would have to agree with this as well. My PF-500 is a practice rig. My main rig is an SVP-Pro/power amp. My PF is used so I don't have to drag my rack around all the time. It sucks there have been some issues, part of my point I guess is that some people expect too much out of a micro. I don't have to push mine at all. And no matter what rig I use I always carry my BDDI with me for back-up. Why, cause any rig can fail.

Asking to use the full rated wattage should never be expecting too much. Either a product lives up to its specs or not. I don't care if the amp is a giant brick or a micro-head, if it says it will deliver 500 watts, it better well deliver 500 watts reliably, or it is a bad product, plain and simple.