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Another School Shooting Plot Thwarted...

#21
TheBigO said:
No, I don't think there is. A couple of kids feel so horribly about their lives and hate everyone around them so much that they are going to go on a killing spree - but not for two and a half years? Many of the students and some of the teachers won't even be there at that time. Their lives and their outlooks will have changed dramatically in the meantime.

I suppose looking for logic from any of these murder/suicide plots is a lost cause in the first place, but this one is especially odd to me. Why would the date even matter? Then again, SF city officials stopped publishing the statistics when the number of people who committed suicide jumping off the Golden Gate bridge neared 1000. I'll never understand people.
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Well, Since I know who people feel this is the only solution, And I have listened to them and done what I can to stop them from doing so, let me explain.

For example, I had a friend names josh who, everyday for the last 5 years has lived in hell. His dad beat him, his mother left him when he was 10. And he gets beat up weekly. He has seen many counselors, at the expense of the school. This had done nothing at all. So he slowly started falling about.

ever seen the movie full metal jacket? In that movie, theres a guy they call Gomer Pyle. Now, this guy is a screw up. He tries hard. but still makes mistakes, and gets his squad in trouble, So, his squadmates beat him with bars of soap. afterwards, He slowly goes crazy. He ends up killing his drill sgt and himself. See how this relates?

So, back to the story. So, josh who is still living in hell, who gets beat up weekly, who's dad beats him, who everyone makes fun of becuase the way he dresses, who has very few friends starts slipping in grades. Which makes his dad even angrier. Josh ran away. I get a call from his sister, asking where he is/can I help find him. after looking for only a few hours we found him in an old school. He was just sitting there, staring at the wall. He says he tried to kill himself, becuase he was past the point of help. He was still in counseling, which made no difference. He was still getting beat up weekly. he had no will to live. He moved to his aunts, where things started getting better for him at home atleast.

He still got bullied at school. At since school is everyday, there's pretty much no escape. Again, he ran away. We found him in the same schoolhouse. He said he was going to take his uncles gun and bring it too school. He was going to kill everyone that made his life hell Becuase that was the only way to make things stop. Counseling made things worse. Other students make fun of him for it. Last year Josh tried to kill himself again. He tried to hang himself from the old school. The rope snapped, which caused him to break his neck and his feet. he died in hospital a couple days later.

People do these kinds of things becuase of others peoples inability to accept people for who they are. Josh used to be a fun, happy guy. i knew him since he was 12. He killed himself at 17.

when people automatically say these teens are troubled, Or are inhuman or braindead or some kind of idiots, That really upsets me. one of my friends killed himself becuase of ridicule. You all have to understand that some people have hardships in there lives that affect them in a way that can't be fixed. And its when people make fun of them, hurt them for no reason, thats what causes this. Theres more to it then you see.

You're on the same level of the people who led him to end his life.
 
#23
flakeh said:
You're on the same level of the people who led him to end his life.
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Wow, you managed to completely miss my point and insult me at the same time.

First of all, I taught high school for seven years and I've only been out of high school for a little over a decade so I remember what it's like to be a teenager. And I've been to four funerals for friends who committed suicide and one who was killed by her boyfriend. If you think I'm devoid of empathy then either you've misunderstood my posts or I've done a poor job portraying myself accurately in these forums.

Secondly, my point was that there was something fishy about the fact that they were planning mass murders two and half years in advance. That doesn't make any sense to me. This doesn't point to kids that have just "had enough" but that are even more detached and calculating than any others I've read of.

Finally, there isn't a person alive who can justify these school shootings to me. As horrible as some kids are treated by their peers and as bad as their home life might be, murder is still murder. I felt bad for kids that were picked on when I was in school and I did whatever I could to stop it then and especially when I became a teacher. Life is hard enough without douche bags making it worse on kids that are struggling as it is. I understand that.

For whatever reason the kids saw me as someone that they could talk to. I had students come to me with problems rather than school counselors or their parents and I tried my best to help every one of them. What teenagers often can't see is that as bad as things seem in high school, when it's over you can make of your life whatever you wish. No more restrictions on where you live, what you do or who you associate with. Your life is your own. But a short sighted world view that says murder is the answer is simply not justifiable in my mind.

I don't presume to know you and I know that you don't know me. So I'd appreciate not hurling unsubstantiated invective in my direction and I'll do the same.
 
#24
TheBigO said:
Wow, you managed to completely miss my point and insult me at the same time.

First of all, I taught high school for seven years and I've only been out of high school for a little over a decade so I remember what it's like to be a teenager. And I've been to four funerals for friends who committed suicide and one who was killed by her boyfriend. If you think I'm devoid of empathy then either you've misunderstood my posts or I've done a poor job portraying myself accurately in these forums.

Secondly, my point was that there was something fishy about the fact that they were planning mass murders two and half years in advance. That doesn't make any sense to me. This doesn't point to kids that have just "had enough" but that are even more detached and calculating than any others I've read of.

Finally, there isn't a person alive who can justify these school shootings to me. As horrible as some kids are treated by their peers and as bad as their home life might be, murder is still murder. I felt bad for kids that were picked on when I was in school and I did whatever I could to stop it then and especially when I became a teacher. Life is hard enough without douche bags making it worse on kids that are struggling as it is. I understand that.

For whatever reason the kids saw me as someone that they could talk to. I had students come to me with problems rather than school counselors or their parents and I tried my best to help every one of them. What teenagers often can't see is that as bad as things seem in high school, when it's over you can make of your life whatever you wish. No more restrictions on where you live, what you do or who you associate with. Your life is your own. But a short sighted world view that says murder is the answer is simply not justifiable in my mind.

I don't presume to know you and I know that you don't know me. So I'd appreciate not hurling unsubstantiated invective in my direction and I'll do the same.
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I'm sorry. This is an issue that is very dear to me. I knew a victim of these kind of things. And I have been a victim of some very harsh things. My intent was not to offend you.
 
#25
I was going to start a new thread, but I figured it was pertinent so I'll just make it a post in this one.

Tonight I went to see my college theatre group's production of Bang Bang, You're Dead, a play about a kid who gets pushed over the edge and goes on a shooting spree at his high school.

The play was very powerful; the victims of the shooter were ghosts who spoke to him about what they missed in life, and begged him to tell them why he killed them. However, that was never answered; the kid couldn't answer. One thing I didn't like about the play was the fact that one scene featured him hunting with his grandfather and begging his parents to get him a rifle; as if to say that hunting and owning a firearm are "gateway" activities to homicide.

At the end of the show, they had a Q & A session with the cast. An audience member asked:

"back when I was in high school, there were kids being bullied, outcasts, and loners, but why weren't there school shootings then? Is it because guns are more available now, kids are exposed to more violence, what is it?"

I thought this was an excellent question, and people had several different takes on it. Your thoughts?
 
#26
Vince S. said:
I was going to start a new thread, but I figured it was pertinent so I'll just make it a post in this one.

Tonight I went to see my college theatre group's production of Bang Bang, You're Dead, a play about a kid who gets pushed over the edge and goes on a shooting spree at his high school.

The play was very powerful; the victims of the shooter were ghosts who spoke to him about what they missed in life, and begged him to tell them why he killed them. However, that was never answered; the kid couldn't answer. One thing I didn't like about the play was the fact that one scene featured him hunting with his grandfather and begging his parents to get him a rifle; as if to say that hunting and owning a firearm are "gateway" activities to homicide.

At the end of the show, they had a Q & A session with the cast. An audience member asked:

"back when I was in high school, there were kids being bullied, outcasts, and loners, but why weren't there school shootings then? Is it because guns are more available now, kids are exposed to more violence, what is it?"

I thought this was an excellent question, and people had several different takes on it. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

It's because kids are taught relativism instead of responsibility. And because of Poke'mon!
 
#30
Vince S. said:
I was going to start a new thread, but I figured it was pertinent so I'll just make it a post in this one.

Tonight I went to see my college theatre group's production of Bang Bang, You're Dead, a play about a kid who gets pushed over the edge and goes on a shooting spree at his high school.

The play was very powerful; the victims of the shooter were ghosts who spoke to him about what they missed in life, and begged him to tell them why he killed them. However, that was never answered; the kid couldn't answer. One thing I didn't like about the play was the fact that one scene featured him hunting with his grandfather and begging his parents to get him a rifle; as if to say that hunting and owning a firearm are "gateway" activities to homicide.

At the end of the show, they had a Q & A session with the cast. An audience member asked:

"back when I was in high school, there were kids being bullied, outcasts, and loners, but why weren't there school shootings then? Is it because guns are more available now, kids are exposed to more violence, what is it?"

I thought this was an excellent question, and people had several different takes on it. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Though I do agree with this play - Were any of the cast victims of severe bullying? did they consult anyone who has done a school shooting/planned one? This seems kinda biased to me...
 
#31
Vince S. said:
At the end of the show, they had a Q & A session with the cast. An audience member asked:

"back when I was in high school, there were kids being bullied, outcasts, and loners, but why weren't there school shootings then? Is it because guns are more available now, kids are exposed to more violence, what is it?"

I thought this was an excellent question, and people had several different takes on it. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

There's plenty of theories, but it's hard to know has contributed to it and what didn't. If I had to make a list of the possible factors it might look something like this: (in no particular order)
  • Vast media coverage incites copycats
  • Larger schools mean more kids lost in the shuffle
  • Parents not teaching kids to respect others and thus more bullying
  • Also both parents working means less time spent with/checking on kids
  • Modern technology creates greater detachment from other people
  • Less hope for the future among the youth
  • "Soft" parenting/teaching that doesn't prepare kids for the hardships of life
  • Easier access to guns/bombmaking info available online
  • More violent videogames/music/TV/movies

That's not to say I believe these to be the reasons. They are simply the ones that sprang to mind or that I thought people might list. Who knows what the truth is?

What I do know is that while this type of violence perpetrated by teenagers (and a college student in the case of the Virginia Tech shootings) has become prevalent in the last 12 years or so, it is not a new phenomenon. The phrase "going postal" came from incidents starting in the 80's when postal workers went on killing sprees.

And while the spotlight was on postal workers, this sort of incident was not uncommon in many professions, especially following an employee's firing or other financial hardship. In fact, the worst incidents took place in 1927 and involved the killing of school children by a school board member who blamed a new property tax for the foreclosure of his farm in what came to be known as the Bath School Disaster.

Again, school shootings seem like a fairly recent phenomenon. But killing sprees themselves don't seem that new. I'd wager that the only difference today is the level of press coverage. And people are always complaining that kids grow up too fast these days. Perhaps it's simply the dark side of that sentiment that they start committing crimes like these at an earlier age.
 

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