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Any tips on how to be ok with bad drummer?

#161
He's not portnoy nor a human metronome but it's good enough. As a business consultant I will tell you this. I'd love to play with this guy. The rarest musician of any kind is a musician with good business sense. You're a moderately successful originals band. How many can say that? My originals band hasn't played 1 gig yet. But my drummer is a better player than yours. Want to switch places? I'll gladly do it. This guy is doing more than pulling his weight in the grand scheme of things.
 
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#163
tycobb73 said:
He's not portnoy nor a human metronome but it's good enough. As a business consultant I will tell you this. I'd love to play with this guy. The rarest musician of any kind is a musician with good business sense. You're a moderately successful originals band. How many can say that? My originals band hasn't played 1 gig yet. But my drummer is a better player than yours. Want to switch places? I'll gladly do it. This guy is doing more than pulling his weight in the grand scheme of things.
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Do consider the "value added" contributions your drummer brings.
 
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#165
HamOnTheCob said:
I should've been more clear that my issue was as much (or more, probably) with my own psychological issues than with his drumming.

Someone asked whether anyone in my family has a history of OCD, and while I think that comment was made tongue-in-cheek, I have always had obsessive/compulsive tendencies, whether it was a concern at a young age that people didn't put my toys back exactly where they got them/how they found them, freaking out as a baby/toddler whenever I had anything dirty or sticky on my hands (my daughter actually had the same issue), having anxiety when classmates would have sloppy handwriting (anxiety I've relived through our teenage son's life... it's so hard to handle), never wanting to do "group projects" in school because the rest of the group did things differently, etc. I'm sure this whole music issue right now stems heavily from those tendencies.

As stated previously, the biggest problem here is my mindset, not our drummer, which is why I originally sought advice on how to minimize my anxiety.

Jacob
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Yeah, so I'm back to this:

tumblr_nvk8rvNX591tekavlo1_500.jpg



tycobb73 said:
He's not portnoy nor a human metronome but it's good enough. As a business consultant I will tell you this. I'd love to play with this guy. The rarest musician of any kind is a musician with good business sense. You're a moderately successful originals band. How many can say that? My originals band hasn't played 1 gig yet. But my drummer is a better player than yours. Want to switch places? I'll gladly do it. This guy is doing more than pulling his weight in the grand scheme of things.
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Yeah, me too!

Roxbororob said:
Do consider the "value added" contributions your drummer brings.
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Agreed. This is huge, for me at least. That's why I like hired gun situations: "Tell me where to be and when, and what we are playing. I'll be there and I'll be prepared. We'll play, I'll have fun, you'll pay me, I'll load out and I'll be gone". None of that "band" stuff to deal with.
 
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#167
a good drummer makes a great band good, a great drummer makes a good band great.

to me the drummer is the qb of the band, is in control of the framework of the songs, starts/stops/endings....he can keep a decent groove that people can dance to, he has fills that aren't entirely cheese....but a drummer can't be missing stops and endings, he should be leading the band, not playing along to the band, it's not drum karaoke. He is a solid drummer, but is not in command of the song. Clearly you are correct about practice time. As I get older I notice I am having memory problems and have to practice songs I've played forever more often to remember them thoroughly.
 
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#168
smcgov said:
but a drummer can't be missing stops and endings, he should be leading the band, not playing along to the band, it's not drum karaoke. He is a solid drummer, but is not in command of the song.
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So true! I think this goes for the rhythm section in general.

I used to play in an original instrumental group and the guy who wrote the tunes (keyboardist) kept forgetting his own parts!
 
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#170
So, I am literally going through the exact same thing right now. Our drummer sounds exactly like yours. Doesn't practice, can't keep consistent tempo, constantly attempts fills that are beyond his skill level and flubs them, etc. The rest of the band is good and we have a great singer, but we are a prog/alternative band and so having a mediocre drummer just kills me. We definitely haven't attained the success that it sounds like you guys have though. The worst part about my situation is that our singer is one of the best drummers I have played with, but he and the guitarist won't even entertain the idea of him playing and singing (which he can do incredibly well; a unique talent for sure) because they are worried about the aesthetic and not having a front man. Apparently having a frontman is more important than playing good music....

But at the end of the day, I've realized something (cue South Park music).... Unless you are literally signed to a record label with thousands of fans right now, don't let a small amount of success sway you from replacing your drummer. Hell, if anything take that as a sign that you and the other members SHOULD start your own project with a better drummer, because it means you have gotten that far despite his playing. I say that because I am assuming that like the other tens of thousands of Talk Bass members, you likely want to "make it" and be a paid touring musician. The bottom line is, even if you are playing to decent crowds a band with a bad drummer will NEVER endure. At best you may play Warped tour (or whatever the equivalent is for your style) and give a short-lived appearance of being successful, but in today's market truly making it means you can endure for years and years. No one will continue to follow a band with a poor drummer. If you are on the verge of a record deal (I know you didn't imply that) then I'd say you are overreacting and he can't be that bad, or you are the luckiest SOB in the last century. I can't think of a single band who makes a legitimate living touring who's gotten big in the past 5-10 years that has a drummer who can't keep tempo.
 
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#171
smcgov said:
a good drummer makes a great band good, a great drummer makes a good band great.

to me the drummer is the qb of the band, is in control of the framework of the songs, starts/stops/endings....he can keep a decent groove that people can dance to, he has fills that aren't entirely cheese....but a drummer can't be missing stops and endings, he should be leading the band, not playing along to the band, it's not drum karaoke. He is a solid drummer, but is not in command of the song. Clearly you are correct about practice time. As I get older I notice I am having memory problems and have to practice songs I've played forever more often to remember them thoroughly.
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This! One of the issues I had with the drummer in my last band was that he wasn't in command of the song, most of them in fact. Starts, stops, endings, the basic framework.......sometimes he would get it, sometimes he wouldn't. It's frustrating to play with someone like that. The guy was a killer drummer when he was on, but was off way too much for me at the end.
 
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#173
mancefine said:
Doesn't practice, can't keep consistent tempo, constantly attempts fills that are beyond his skill level and flubs them, etc.
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This reminds me of the drummer in one of my bands. One particular song was a fast tempo jazz piece that started with just the drums. He'd be flailing away with a big grin on his face and when it was time for the rest of the band to come in nobody could tell when the first beat of the bar was.
 
#174
I'm in a covers band gigging every couple if weeks for decent money and playing to (mostly ) packed dance floors. The lead guitarist is rubbish, he never learns his parts and always makes the same errors. The rhythm guitar is tone/rhythm deaf but a great guy, the singer is good but limited. But we gave an ex touring pro drummer who nails every beat, never forgets structures, sends crystal clear signals, is spot on with fills, and if he starts at a tempo that's the same tempo he will play all the way through. I play simple and straight down the line. Without him we'd get laughed off the stage. Good drummer, no cry.
 
#175
I joined later on to what was supposed to be a fusion/experimental trio. The guitarist and the drummer simply do not want to improve and they are stuck playing what they used to their comfort zone which is metal music. The drummer cannot keep the rhythm and plays the same straightforward beats all the time. the guitar player is all about blasting the volume on his falling apart squeaky scratchy torn out amplifier and speakers and shredding tastelessly. Everytime I bring an idea or a bass line / groove which might spice things up or get us in the direction we all agreed on, they somehow manage to turn it back into a heavy metal jam over minor chords (and its either that E minor which i hate by now, or if they want to change its an A minor). Both members have been playing more than I have, and both have studied their instruments whereas i am self taught. I practice everyday whereas they never touch their instruments until we get together for rehearsal or jam session.

The worst thing is that both are my best friends since high school (been friends for the last 16 years) I want out but that's the only time i get to play with a drummer and a guitar player.
 
#176
chaak said:
I want out but that's the only time i get to play with a drummer and a guitar player.
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I know just how you feel, there are plenty of guitarists and even a few drummers local to me but they all sound like yours, unwilling to practice and progress. some also think that volume is a substitute for talent.

That is the reason that I have stayed with our guitarist through several bands despite the fact that he lives about an hour drive from me. He might not be the worlds finest but he is keen and prepared to put in the work to learn new material and improve.
 
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#178
Can you imagine an above average drummer, schooled from the street to the university level; pro manners, good gear, backing vox...the whole package; who was repeatedly ignored, dismissed, used/discarded, etc. over a course of decades; finally packed away all his gear and diplomas, left the music biz to the people who control it, and picked up the bass guitar as an amusement, a hobby?

In your case I would suggest dragging your drummer to a local show that includes the sort of drummer you want and tell him during the course of the show, "that's the kind of drummer our band needs." That will basically serve as his ultimatum. As someone posted above, life is too short; your band will never be better than the drummer.
 
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#179
As a bass player in a band, I feel either empowered or limited by the drummer. If your drummer isnt listening to you as a bass player? You have to work to hold stuff together as best you can. Thats no fun. You're only as good as your drummer.
 
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#180
If all the other band members feel the way you do then you guys should tell him (in a meeting).
1.Tell him he's good as a promoter/booking agent and you guys need him for that (only).
2. You guys must stick together on this decision. He maybe rebellious and may try to sway you individually to see his point.
3. He will want to play, no doubt about it and may offer you guys an ultimatum (be prepared for this).
P/S- I went thru a similar situation yrs ago and our guitar player (in my case) founded out he wasn't all he thought he was when he left us (got pissed and quit). Later he wanted back in under our conditions. Lots of drummers out there. Hold your ground together.
 

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