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Anybody else going all software?
- Thread starter Taylor Livingston
- Start date
That does sound safer!
If it was possible get really good synth bass (Moog type sounds) from a multi-effects set up it would be easier, but I am keen to see what can be obtained via the software route and whether it is possible to convert pitch to midi (reliably and without too much latency) to make even more things possible, but I'm only just looking at this!
I'm wondering the same. Where the software route might be interesting to me is if there is a decent ability to trigger a good software bass synth from the input to get round the lack of decent ones in effects units. Maybe the Markbass one solves that issue, but it's not cheap. I wonder if a limit on effects isn't a bad thing for me to make me concentrate on the playing not the noises!
Joe, the SUPER nice developer, said you could email him directly until he gets a new host for his site and he'll email you the latest software. frettedval AT att DOT net
Make sure to request his latest app GuitarSynSE which seems the most robust synth app he has feature wise. Two osc, noise, dual filters, dual amp, envelope assignments, plus an entire effects rack. A little more feature rich than SafFron, though a little more complicated to chew on at first glance.
For whatever reason I found that the overall velocity tracking worked better for me when feeding his apps a less-hot signal as opposed to something pushing close to 0db. But it could just be me.
You've hit on a few things here.
* There's a LOT of synth related software out there. Not as much hardware.
* Tracking is still an issue as most synth software is MIDI based - how are you going to send MIDI? That's where the FrettedSynth stuff solves that entire problem as it's audio tracking and doesn't use MIDI at all, and tracks pretty well.
* A limit on effects can be a good thing if you're just looking to play music that doesn't REQUIRE all of those effects. I've gone from straight bass, to a full pedal board and rack of effects (extremely difficult to program and use), and boiled it all down to a laptop in my FX loop (much easier to program and use). But in the end it was still time consuming trying different software effects, auditioning their sounds, programming them, etc. etc. The band I'm currently playing with probably won't have me using any effects and it's extremely refreshing to just plug-n-play. I might punch in some overdrive or fuzz once in a while, but maybe not. And even then that's one stomp box, or getting a different amp that has an overdrive channel built in to keep things simple.
I never found a good solution for dirt via software, at least with the laptop in my FX loop of my preamp.
And I never found a truly great sounding amp sim when trying to run my bass direct to my laptop and out to a power amp/cab. Whether or not you'd be able to really tell in a mix or live setting I can't say. But sitting at home A/B'ing my actual hardware preamp BBE BMAX-T vs Guitar Rig, Amplitube, Waves, etc. always made the software sound thin, poorly EQed towards mega bass with no punchy mids, etc. I did find Waves to actually sound the best from a bass preamp stand point, and it was simplest, too. Like most everything else, amp sims are heavily slanted towards guitar users. But I'd always get a few software bass amp sounds that I thought were pretty good. Then go back and A/B against my BMax-T and then they'd instantly sound bad in comparison.
But from a pure effects standpoint software surely is powerful and awesome. Way easier to program, way more possibilities.
About sounding thin... my first reflex with a cab or amp, when I'm running software FX, is to tailor the clean sound of my bass so that the amp gives out the closest possible signal to the bass plugged straight into it.
I'll A/B for a while and put the resulting EQ at the end of my treatment (I work in Logic).
I'll A/B for a while and put the resulting EQ at the end of my treatment (I work in Logic).
That's been my experience with pitch-to-midi plugins, or using REAPER's tuning plugin which allows you to send midi events to another track (which works to some extent but sometimes gets the wrong octave). It might be that my playing isn't clean enough, of course, and I am sure that is a factor.
That is why it sounds interesting.
What I meant was using the minimum number of effects required to produce something musical, rather than focussing on effects to the detriment of the music. Of course there is no reason why effects (i.e. the sound) can't contribute to the overall musical experience too, but sometimes it can be hard to resist spending hours tweaking sounds.
One thing that did occur to me is that you are less limited to a particular set of hardware. If you had a boutique pedal that failed you might not be able to get a replacement at any price.
The Axe-Fx definitely covers my amp and dirt needs. I wish it had a Brown Dog sim but that's a bit much to ask I think. IMO, the bass amp in Guitar Rig 4 is pretty damn good. For "clean" tones, I use the Axe-Fx about 75% of the time but coax some solid state grittiness out of GR4 the other 25%.
In other news, SoundToys Filter Freak is soooooooo THE filter out there by a ridiculous margin. It can do all of the envelope stuff seamlessly and sounds great all the time, you get a 64-step sequencer for LFO's, the ADSR's trigger very smoothly, and you can overdrive the input much like you can on an MF-101. It's REALLY analog sounding and really full but very expensive with the bundle. I sold some software to afford it though after being blown away by the demo.
In other news, SoundToys Filter Freak is soooooooo THE filter out there by a ridiculous margin. It can do all of the envelope stuff seamlessly and sounds great all the time, you get a 64-step sequencer for LFO's, the ADSR's trigger very smoothly, and you can overdrive the input much like you can on an MF-101. It's REALLY analog sounding and really full but very expensive with the bundle. I sold some software to afford it though after being blown away by the demo.
I can have this with my VB99.
I have it for over a year now and have came up with good "Moogish" and "analog-ish" type of sounds. No glitches. No latency on the low B. (4ms)
I bought it only for the synths sounds and I finally use it all the time.
Once you get a hold of how to program it and all the possibilities , it is a very powerfull tool.
I went through the whole process with Pitch to MIDI , and it's the ONLY thing that REALLY works. Limited , but what it does , it does very good.
I tried almost everything to do that before buying the VB99 and what worked best is a GK pickup , with a Roland GI20. I tried an Axon ax50 and prefered the GI20.
The problem is that you'll have to use a Piccolo bass or a baryton guitar in order to have low latency. And it will still be "Glitchy".
You'll have to learn to play VERY clean.
Not very usefull to have a piccolo bass when you need a real bass sound.....
i think it's freakin' excellent. but then i just tweak my sound for mixing with gr4 and use the vt or a mic'ed b-15 to record. i'm trying to like amplitube svx, but i still can't develop a taste for it despite loving ampegs.
Funny, Jimmy M, that you mention recording your guitar rig effected signal thru mic' ed amp. After much frustration about my absolute lack of skill with cubase and the such, I've almost quit trying to use amplitube as plug in. Did the mic'ed amp approach worked for you? If so, which DAW or recorder do you use?
an old version of sonar, i forget which. and the mic'ed amp approach always works for me, but lately i've been using the vt pedal instead because it's a lot quicker and sounds like a mic'ed amp to me.CamiloDíaz;9020454 said:
but you misunderstood me a little. i don't use guitar rig to run through the amp...i was micing the amp, THEN treating it with guitar rig.
That seems an expensive option to me. I did try out a GT-10B and there were some nice synth sounds available, if a little limited from the synth section itself, although with the pitch shift, octaver, wah, etc it could be varied somewhat. There seem to be quite a few GT-6Bs for sale these days, but I think I remember from years back being less positive about the GT-6B for synth bass. What wasn't there was a pure tone with good attack, but plenty of dirtier ones. Unless there are deep editing options I couldn't see from the front panel it was just saw or square.
That is excellent.
Perhaps I am being realistic in wanting something decent for the smallest outlay!
The VB-99 would probably be really really awesome for more "traditional" synth sounds, but the night-and-day difference between GR4/AT3 and the Axe-Fx is plenty 'nuff for me to keep the Ultra even if I was just using it's amp models. It's an extremely versatile beast. I also using it for tracking guitarists now, all of my clean bass, and it's an integral component of every synth sound I make along with the laptop. Fok, do you think you could post some a sample or two of your VB-99 tones? I'm very curious.
@Jimmy M: I misunderstood you alright, but asking you made me think "what the heck" and I just tried it. It's all work in progress, tho, as I'm still getting there, not entirely convinced. Your approach, micking then treating sounds like an idea, it'd really get rid of those nasty digital artifacts that sometimes comes w/running the instrument directly into the PC. And since I got no interface, for the moment, I'll try that.
