I was talking my friend in the repair business the other day and he was telling me about a bass player using a Presonus channel strip for a preamp with a pro audio amp and made the statement that he would never go back to a conventional bass amp.He also said that the channel strip could blend tube and solid state and that it had one of the best compressors he has ever used.That interested me.Anybody out there using a rig kinda like this vs a typical bass amp or bass preamp and how they like vs everything else.
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Anybody out there using a channel strip for a preamp?
- Thread starter BruceG63
- Start date
Yes, Art Pro Channel and Crown Power amp, for over 10 years. There no reason for me to change. I get the sound and flexibility that I love and need.
I used to run an Ashley MX508 rack mixer with a QSC USA series power amp. I built this rig because I switched between three instruments.
The Ashley 1/4" inputs were line level, so I ran Shure A95U line matching transformers to plug into the XLR mic inputs. FYI, A line matching transformer is pretty much the same as a passive DI without the Thru jack. Toggling between mic and line on the mixer worked as a mute
.For a while I was considering a pure gain preamp from Great River or Millenia Media.
To this day I still consider getting a Midas XL42. This has two XL4 channels strips with pan controls. Multiple XL4s can be linked as well.
Use whatever gives you the results you want
. Just keep in mind the cost and form factor, and make sure it's worth the extra.This can be a good approach but frankly I wouldn't bother unless it was a very good, high quality channel strip.
But most bass players are not going to drop the cash to get something actually good like an API, BAE, Neve, etc.
Tell ya what though, when you buy the GOOD ****, it doesn't depreciate and a line of people will be waiting to buy it should you want to sell it.
About 15 years ago I dropped a lot on some quality mic pres and they are all worth 30% more than I paid for them. They also sound amazing.
If you are talking about the Prosumer stuff from ART, Presonus, etc. you might as well just get a Sansamp RBI and be done with it frankly.
I have a Presonus Digimax LT (which was an $800 pre when I bought it used for $400) that is pretty good but it dates from the era of Presonus when they were not trying to build things as cheaply as possible.
I bought it for and only use it on toms, it has a lightpipe digital out that can interface into my system. I only used it when I needed to track more than four toms (which is not very often).
If it's just tracking four toms or less, I use a four channel John Hardy M-1, which just crushes the Presonus, no contest but it was also a very expensive piece.
Bottom line, you are not getting any special recording mojo from a cheap channel strip, especially the ones with fake toobs in them.
Analogeezer
But most bass players are not going to drop the cash to get something actually good like an API, BAE, Neve, etc.
Tell ya what though, when you buy the GOOD ****, it doesn't depreciate and a line of people will be waiting to buy it should you want to sell it.
About 15 years ago I dropped a lot on some quality mic pres and they are all worth 30% more than I paid for them. They also sound amazing.
If you are talking about the Prosumer stuff from ART, Presonus, etc. you might as well just get a Sansamp RBI and be done with it frankly.
I have a Presonus Digimax LT (which was an $800 pre when I bought it used for $400) that is pretty good but it dates from the era of Presonus when they were not trying to build things as cheaply as possible.
I bought it for and only use it on toms, it has a lightpipe digital out that can interface into my system. I only used it when I needed to track more than four toms (which is not very often).
If it's just tracking four toms or less, I use a four channel John Hardy M-1, which just crushes the Presonus, no contest but it was also a very expensive piece.
Bottom line, you are not getting any special recording mojo from a cheap channel strip, especially the ones with fake toobs in them.
Analogeezer
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,015
- 5
- 220,872
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
One thing to be aware of is that the input impedance of many channel strips is too low to work well with a passive bass. An active bass won’t be a problem, or a buffered passive bass will also solve this issue.
IF I had the mad money, I'd be playing through one of these in a hot second. I got to play one once, and it was too good, gave me chills:
No, Jaco didn't need one, no tort, and it doesn't sound like a _____________, either. Wonderful. I don't care it's rack-mount, won't fit on my pedal board, and doesn't weight two pounds. Fabulous.
No, Jaco didn't need one, no tort, and it doesn't sound like a _____________, either. Wonderful. I don't care it's rack-mount, won't fit on my pedal board, and doesn't weight two pounds. Fabulous.
And THIS would be a very close second, especially on days when I wanted 'less knobs'. I shudder to think how many music tracks, TV and Movie soundtracks have used these, and also killer as a bass front end.
These two are a different sort of tone: Full-bodied (both tube/analog architecture), but as with all real studio or broadcasting gear, utterly clear in a way most 'bass amps' can't approach as they're different horses for different courses, and hooked up to a great stereo power amp and first-class cabinets, it's just a different experience, and for me, better: It's just exceptionally clean and controlled, done right. And can sound a little dry or 'too clean' for some cats. Old-school in the best way.
I go into a BAE rack unit. It has a DI input. Neve based preamps are a good sonic choice.
On other pre-amps I run the instrument into a Radial passive DI (Jensen transformer) and balanced out into the preamp’s input.
On other pre-amps I run the instrument into a Radial passive DI (Jensen transformer) and balanced out into the preamp’s input.
Yeah I have a pair of racked BAE modules, back when they were racking old console modules before they started building their own dedicated stuff.
Mine are old Calrec modules from the 1970's, way cool stepped controls for the LPF and HPF and also the EQ points (three bands), with a continuous cut/boost control stacked with the stepped controls.
Truthfully though while they do sound way cool on bass I prefer a less "colored" bass tone but man on guitar or even acoustic guitar (if you want a more colored sound) they are the ****.
Like I said the good stuff is worth the money because it does not depreciate, appreciates in fact. But not a lot of people are going to drop $1,000 plus per channel for the good stuff. But once you hear the difference between the good stuff and the Prosumer stuff, it's very obvious.
Analogeezer
While I agree the expensive pres are good I've played thru the Art and presonus pres too and I think they sound excellent as well. I own a Art pro channel and it has been my go to for recording for years. When it comes down to it they are just different levels of good I don't think the budget channel strips sound bad at all or deserve to be slagged it just comes across of cork sniffing and gear snobbery not everyone can afford that stuff like most high end gear does that mean guys playing fender rumbles Deserve to be bashed? Maybe I'm taking that one Abit personally but it just came across with a sour feel for me.
Studio and many musical instrument pres can differ in many ways. There’s noise floor, EQ range and effectiveness, distortion and what happens when you push them, harmonics, and bandwidth. There’s a musical quality to consider. When the signal passes through some circuits, it sounds better.
I don’t know if there’s a simple way to characterize studio vs MI pre-amps. They’re all different. They all offer positive and negative features.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,015
- 5
- 220,872
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
My very first (semi-commercial) design, going back into around 1980 or so was a channel strip preamp. It's ironic because I just saw a picture of it still in use on a keyboard rig but there were bass players also using them. (it's the unit on the top, the cabinets were another very old design from that era, looks a lot like D-130's in there... it was a rocking rig for that time period but he still plays it today, maybe out of nostalgia)
For a short time in the early 2000's I used an Avalon 737 (which was normally in my studio at the time) in my live rig with a Crest power amp and Bergantino or EA cabinets. Aside from being a lot of gear to haul around, that rig sounded beautiful by itself but in a band mix it kind of got lost and somehow just didn't cut like a conventional bass amp - and I did lots of experimentation with EQ and the other settings on the 737. It was a worthy experiment, though.
This is what I'd get: Manley VOXBOX® Channel Strip — Manley Laboratories, Inc.
My bass has never sounded better than when it's running through one of these.
How about pedal preamp (9V) vs rack preamp (110/230VAC PSU)? At least Sansamp RBI uses higher rail voltages than BDDI, but I don't know how much it affects the sound or headroom. RBI sounds better but partly it can be the small differences in preamp design.
Maybe @agedhorse can help us here to explain if there is real difference in sound when used either 9VDC or 110/230VDC. None of the studio units seem to have 9V supply while most of bass pedal pres does.
Maybe @agedhorse can help us here to explain if there is real difference in sound when used either 9VDC or 110/230VDC. None of the studio units seem to have 9V supply while most of bass pedal pres does.
I briefly dabbled with the ART Tube Channel a few years ago, and it sounded . . . OK, but frankly I have much better - and more expensive - options these days.
Which expensive pres have you played through and what was the situation?
IMO the only piece of ART gear that is decent is the Pro VLA compressor but only on certain kinds of things. I actually own one of these.
My original point was people using these prosumer channel strips, think they are getting some special mojo for their bass when reality is you would get far better results spending that money on a good dedicated bass preamp.
You can buy a Sansamp RBI all day long used for about $200.
I've already related my experience re: Presonus vs. John Hardy, not remotely in the same league which is understandable. But I only use the Presonus on toms and that is when I need that many channels, which is rarely.
Analogeezer
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,015
- 5
- 220,872
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The input power (voltage) doesn’t necessarily indicate the internal operating voltages. For example, it’s quite possible (and often done) to generate 300Vdc from 9Vdc.
