Anyone flying soon?

[jp58]

This is true. Yet as we just saw people even blame the TSA for that.

I did blindly blame them, but I actually took the time to look up what I was posting, and I corrected myself.

But you probably have a point there too. Very few people double-check to make sure they have the facts correct before passing blame.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

In other news, my roommate flew to FL for Thanksgiving.

He got the pat down, and giggled like a schoolgirl the whole time. No funny response from the TSA.

He did successfully bang his girlfriend in an airport broom closet, though... which puts our house at about even in the Win-Loss ratio with the TSA.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

can't produce evidence of one terrorist attack the TSA has stopped.

The lack of terrorist attacks on US-origin flights would seem to be evidence of such stoppage or deterrence, unless you are also arguing that terrorists no longer target US air travel.

 

[sloasdaylight]

I dunno about you guys, but if I were a terrorist, I'd load up a bunch of me and my comrades, don ski masks, go buy a **** load of guns and ammo, and just flat out take over a terminal. That's what I'd do if I was a suicidal murder bent on killing Americans.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

The lack of terrorist attacks on US-origin flights would seem to be evidence of such stoppage or deterrence, unless you are also arguing that terrorists no longer target US air travel.

Well that's the thing, isn't it? There hasn't been a real attack or attempt in 9 years and they are only now implementing these new security systems.

 

[jp58]

The lack of terrorist attacks on US-origin flights would seem to be evidence of such stoppage or deterrence, unless you are also arguing that terrorists no longer target US air travel.

This is a situation where it is difficult to have hard evidence for or against it working as a deterrent.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Well that's the thing, isn't it? There hasn't been a real attack or attempt in 9 years and they are only now implementing these new security systems.

Yes, that is quite the thing.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

This is a situation where it is difficult to have hard evidence for or against it working as a deterrent.

Correct. It might well be that terrorists have lost interest, in which case the TSA security checks would not be a deterrent because there would be nothing to deter.

 

[ModulusFan]

Heard on the radio yesterday that the few arrests the TSA has put in place (drunkenness, assery, etc) cost an average of 2m+ per arrest. Awesome.

 

[burk48237]

The lack of terrorist attacks on US-origin flights would seem to be evidence of such stoppage or deterrence, unless you are also arguing that terrorists no longer target US air travel.

I think many would argue that Al Quadas best people have been expending an awful lot of their energy in Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan for the past 9 or so years. I suspect most of the threats we've seen here have been the B team. We've also been dealing with threats from individuals verses coordinated multi level attacks like Mumbai (Ft. Hood, and the two recent bombings that were prevented). It's a bit harder to coordinate multiple attacks in foreign countries when your worried about a drone dusting your @#$.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I think many would argue that Al Quadas best people have been expending an awful lot of their energy in Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan for the past 9 or so years. I suspect most of the threats we've seen here have been the B team. We've also been dealing with threats from individuals verses coordinated multi level attacks like Mumbai (Ft. Hood, and the two recent bombings that were prevented). It's a bit harder to coordinate multiple attacks in foreign countries when your worried about a drone dusting your @#$.

Many might indeed argue that. It asn't all that long ago you were warning us about all the imminent terror threats. I'm thankful we can breathe easier now.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Many might indeed argue that. It asn't all that long ago you were warning us about all the imminent terror threats. I'm thankful we can breathe easier now.

That goes back to my last post. If we supposedly are safer now and can breathe easier, then why are we implementing these new security systems that go above and beyond what we've been using for the past 9 years? What evidence is there that gives warrant to these new devices for our safety?

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I suppose that someone sneaking aboard a packet of PETN in his trousers would really suck for the other passengers and crew, as well as their family and friends.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

But that person boarded an international flight coming into the US, correct?

 

[burk48237]

Not sure what the maybe, maybe not is about. I agreed with what you said and someone did errantly offer up the underwear bomber as an example of a TSA failure.

Is theTSA still failing security tests? I tend to ignore Burk's links.

I don't blame you for ignoring Burks links. Let's see on one side we have the TB OT Constitutional Law scholar Brad Johnson who thinks this is no big deal on the other side we have Jeffery Rosen (one of Burks Links) who claims that SCOTUS will clearly find these new searches unconstitutional.

Rosen is the son of Sidney and Estelle Rosen, both of whom are psychiatrists.[2] He has been married to Christine Rosen (formerly Stolba), a historian, since 2003. He graduated summa cum laude from Harvard University and was a Marshall scholar at Oxford University, from which he received a second bachelor's degree. He also has a law degree from Yale Law School.[2]

He is a professor of law at George Washington University Law School in Washington, D.C. and has been the commentator on legal affairs for The New Republic since 1992. Rosen is a Nonresident Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution, where he speaks and writes about Technology and the Future of Democracy.[3] He often appears as a guest on National Public Radio, and is a frequent contributor to The New York Times Magazine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Rosen

Yep, perhaps I should tend to ignore Brads posts.

 

[Stu L.]

Flight out is next Friday, and I'm very apprehensive about it. If I have to, I'll get the picture taken. But what about people with physical inabilities to stand still for the few seconds it takes? I know someone (Bartman I think) who's daughter has to be physically searched when flying. My twin niece and nephew are flying too, and both have CP. I feel for the people who can't help it that they have no other options. Children too young to walk. What about them? Regardless of wars or anything else, I cannot begin to understand how morally some do not see a problem with this situation.

But all this is still a big if, right? If you're selected, or trip the detector?

And I appreciate Burk's links. At least he provides a way to justify his thoughts and remarks. Bravo sir.

 

[jp58]

But all this is still a big if, right? If you're selected, or trip the detector?

And I appreciate Burk's links. At least he provides a way to justify his thoughts and remarks. Bravo sir.

It depends on where you are. At NIA, everyone that walked through the front door was subject to a wand, full body metal detector (or x-ray?), and a pat down. I didn't see any small children so I can't say for sure how they would've been treated.

 

[Stu L.]

It depends on where you are. At NIA, everyone that walked through the front door was subject to a wand, full body metal detector (or x-ray?), and a pat down. I didn't see any small children so I can't say for sure how they would've been treated.

But no backscatter or whatever it's called? Or is that the x-ray you mentioned? Casual or rough(er) pat down? If you don't mind me asking that is. And why a wand and detector I wonder?

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

According my my roommate, most people were able to just walk onto the plane without the extra scan/pat-down.

YMMV

 

[6jase5]

6 trips through security last week, no pat downs. The ones I watched took seconds and no protests were visible nor tears were shed that I could see. I did have a "Oh really, my watch? Oh sorry, my necklace? Oh now what, my keys? Oh brother, my tinfoil wrapped pota..." person. I looked for a delete button on him but couldn't find one.

Little side note, keep your hands in when you walk through the MT. If you touch either side you automatically trip the sensor and they either have you walk through again or a deep cavity search, can't recall.