• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Anyone gig with just a preamp pedal?

DWBass

The Funkfather
Jan 24, 2003
24,620
1
22,455
67
Newport News, VA via NYC
www.facebook.com
I'm currently gigging at a Casino and the sound folks continue to claim I'm too loud while at the same time don't have enough signal from my amp and can only get me in FOH by moving the fader up to unity. Then claims if they move me up that far it induces clipping. I'm at a loss and confused. So I'm giving up using an amp and will try to use just the preamp pedal and ask for a monitor. Then see what their excuse is.

Last gig I used my GK MB200 into an 8ohm 1x12 cab. My volume was at 9 o'clock. Not loud at all but he kept saying I was too loud. I used a Markbass LMII before that. I brought the MB 200 in an attempt to lower my volume. Same thing. It's pissing me off!

Soundpeople, please feel free to chime in!!
 
I'm currently gigging at a Casino and the sound folks continue to claim I'm too loud while at the same time don't have enough signal from my amp and can only get me in FOH by moving the fader up to unity. Then claims if they move me up that far it induces clipping. I'm at a loss and confused. So I'm giving up using an amp and will try to use just the preamp pedal and ask for a monitor. Then see what their excuse is.

Last gig I used my GK MB200 into an 8ohm 1x12 cab. My volume was at 9 o'clock. Not loud at all but he kept saying I was too loud. I used a Markbass LMII before that. I brought the MB 200 in an attempt to lower my volume. Same thing. It's pissing me off!

Soundpeople, please feel free to chime in!!
Sounds like the FOH engineer doesn't quite know what they're doing in terms of gain structure.
 
I have gigged straight through a regular DI. I was pretty much at the mercy of the Audio Tech, and it did not always go well. A preamp DI would be a lot better as it gives you tone controls at your fingertips.

Sounds like either the audio techs don't know what they are doing, the mixer is damaged, or possibly the mixer is poorly configured. If the problem is on their end, using a preamp is not going to resolve it.

If they can't get enough level, it should not be possible to clip the channel by cranking up the fader to unity.

On an analog mixer you typically solo the channel and adjust the gain so the signal is peaking around 0dB.
1724290304944.png

Where the channel clips can vary from one model of mixer to the next. From what I remember they usually have 3-9dB of headroom.

On a digital mixer you adjust the gain so the signal is peaking around -12dB.
1724290171786.png

As you see, this means 12dB below clipping.

If the channel gain staging can be adjusted as I just described without excessive noise, the signal level you are sending is fine.

One possibility is the audio techs have one or more compressors set to really lock down the signal. So they are getting what they need but the compressor is gutting the signal level. If you hit a compressor hard to try and get enough signal, it can definitely cause clipping. Usually you dial in the compressor for the desired amount of gain reduction, and the you adjust the makeup gain, so the nominal level coming out of the compressor is about the same as the nominal level going in. Without this makeup gain, the compressor will nock the signal down considerably.

Another possibility is they have the signal routed to a subgroup and the gain staging is jacked. Or possibly they have assigned a VCA or DCA that is locking down the level.

I am sure there are other possibilities.

the sound folks continue to claim I'm too loud while at the same time don't have enough signal from my amp and can only get me in FOH by moving the fader up to unity. Then claims if they move me up that far it induces clipping. I'm at a loss and confused.
Just reread this. The only scenario I can think of where it makes sense is the PA cannot play loud enough to get over your stage volume. So either you are too loud or the system sucks. AFAIK it's not unusual for Casinos to want to keep the volume down.

If you want to use an amp, consider elevating the cab and tilting it to aim at your head. This will allow you to hear the mids and highs very clearly so you can monitor at a lower stage volume. However, if you like really fat, greasy lows, you will hate it.
 
There's no way I'm too loud. I will fight this tooth and nail. I'm as low as I can go without being able to hear myself. I've been playing well over 40 years and have NEVER been told to turn down so low. In any case, I'm going to try the preamp pedal route and see if they blame me for anything else. They were supposed to supply in-ears but it hasn't happened. I do get the Casino volume thing but I have band members who can't understand this. Drummer slams and one of the guitarists just blasts! The sound people should be after them and leave me the heck alone! I'm tired of it and we have another 4 months at this forsaken venue!!
 
There's no way I'm too loud.
I can empathize....but there is no way you can know this for sure unless you are out in the audience area. Sometimes there are weird anomalies that cause the bass to boom way beyond what you think is possible based on your stage volume. Sometimes you have a great gig where it sounds incredible on stage, only to find out that the bass was overbearing and muddy out in the house. Sometimes you have an awful gig where the situation is reversed and the bass is overbearing and muddy on stage, but sounds great out in the audience.

If bass is in the monitors it can sometimes cause more problems than the bass amp. I remember doing a concert series where the conductor repeatedly insisted I was too loud during technical rehearsal. The audio tech had brought a bunch of subs that were distributed around the stage and the bass was cranked through a monitor that was right behind the conductor. Even worse, the tone in the monitor was truly horrible as I was playing a bowed upright with a piezo pickup and my sound was not equalized in the monitor.

For context, this was an annual series where we hade never previously used subs and never did so again. I had told the audio the subs were going to cause problems, but he insisted on using them :eek::sour:.

I kept turning down and the conductor kept getting madder and more insistent. She obviously thought I was jacking with her, because the sound probably was not changing where she was standing. Eventually I turned off my amp and she continued to throw a fit and insist I was too loud. She wouldn't believe that my amp was off until one of the other senior leaders in the organization interceded. I wound up doing the gig with the amp off. I was moved out of the concert band shortly thereafter.
 
I would tell any soundman that thinks I'm too loud preamp or not ,
and has the audacity to tell me how loud a Bass Player should or shouldn't be playing , He's a bassist racist . LOL
Just kidding. ,
DARKGLASS MICROTUBES B7KV2 analog preamp is , in the race of preamps , way out in front.

PS don't ever let anyone , soundman or not tell you you re too loud .
 
Sounds like the FOH engineer doesn't quite know what they're doing in terms of gain structure.

My thoughts, as well. Appears they are NOT saturating the channel and attempting to compensate by boosting the slider...not good.

@DWBass : Wanna borrow my Tech 21 Bass Fly Rig? It's sitting over in Buckroe.

Riis
 
My thoughts, as well. Appears they are NOT saturating the channel and attempting to compensate by boosting the slider...not good.

@DWBass : Wanna borrow my Tech 21 Bass Fly Rig? It's sitting over in Buckroe.

Riis
I appreciate the offer. I bought a preamp pedal {Sonicake B Factory} that I'm going to try. And trust me, they had me so low, I could barely hear myself. If it weren't for the drummer insisting on more bass in his monitor, it'd be a tough gig. Sound guy had me stand by the mixer while he was showing me that he had to push the fader up to unity to get me in FOH, yet I'm too loud! Frankly, I'm about sick of it! He had me play my bass which was barely heard and without any anomalies. Just a barely there sound. I'm just confused how I can be too loud yet there's not enough signal in the channel!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zooberwerx
I appreciate the offer. I bought a preamp pedal {Sonicake B Factory} that I'm going to try. And trust me, they had me so low, I could barely hear myself. If it weren't for the drummer insisting on more bass in his monitor, it'd be a tough gig. Sound guy had me stand by the mixer while he was showing me that he had to push the fader up to unity to get me in FOH, yet I'm too loud! Frankly, I'm about sick of it! He had me play my bass which was barely heard and without any anomalies. Just a barely there sound. I'm just confused how I can be too loud yet there's not enough signal in the channel!!

Is it Portsmouth?

Riis
 
Sound guy is not doing his job.
In my covers band, I gig live with preamp or more often just just direct from bass to digital mixer input (we all use IEM).
I am also sound guy and proper gain on input stage is first thing I do. Never had problems like you do.
Now, this is IMO and I stand to be corrected, but there is significant difference in working with input gain and sliders if you have analogue or digital mixer.
On analogue, you can set all sliders to same value (i.e. -12db) and work with gain to level things out.
On digi. mixer, you have two stages (before, and after AD converter), so you first need to setup proper input gain. Only than you work with trim control (second stage gain control) and sliders. This is the way I do it and have very good results. Again, not a pro sound man and could be wrong.