Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Anyone gig with just a preamp pedal?
- Thread starter DWBass
- Start date
yes i have done whole tours with simple a DI and in-ears. it's so much easier to load in/out, FOH is happy, and i got used to it and loved it. If my brewery/winery band now would make the change i would do it again in a heartbeat. Saves your hearing too!
I'll agree with others - sounds like your sound person may not understand gain structure. This is a bit concerning, since gain structure is generally considered to be about the most fundamental of all topics in live sound reinforcement.
As far as gigging with a preamp pedal - yes, I do. For years I've had two stacked preamps on my board. A Tech 21 Geddy into an Ampeg SCR-DI. Then, out from the SCR-DI to FOH, and also to my stage rig, which is a Peavey MiniMax amp and Mesa Subway 212 cab. For the last several gigs, I've left the amp at home. We are all on IEMs. My sound guy is in love with the no amp on stage - and honestly so am I. My FOH tone is WAYYY better than ever, there are zero phase cancellation issues, and no more boomy bass drowning everything else out. Less crap to carry, better tone out front. I can deal with not feeling the air moving behind me - it's overall so much better for the band's sound.
As far as gigging with a preamp pedal - yes, I do. For years I've had two stacked preamps on my board. A Tech 21 Geddy into an Ampeg SCR-DI. Then, out from the SCR-DI to FOH, and also to my stage rig, which is a Peavey MiniMax amp and Mesa Subway 212 cab. For the last several gigs, I've left the amp at home. We are all on IEMs. My sound guy is in love with the no amp on stage - and honestly so am I. My FOH tone is WAYYY better than ever, there are zero phase cancellation issues, and no more boomy bass drowning everything else out. Less crap to carry, better tone out front. I can deal with not feeling the air moving behind me - it's overall so much better for the band's sound.
You're not in the audience area. The FOH person is. That person is the boss - if he or she says you're too loud, you are. Arguing that point will get you nowhere. OK, it will get you "somewhere" - it will get your band fired from the gig. Is that what you want?
The PA/gain structure thing is a secondary issue - if you're too loud from your amp, there is no need to put you in the PA, whatever is happening there is meaningless unless and until you get your rig set up properly. You need to get your volume under control (and still hear yourself). After that problem is fixed, the issues with the PA can be addressed, but first things first.
The first thing you need to do is point your cabinet at your ears, not the back of your knees. This will fix a lot of things. Once your ears are in the beam of your rig, you will hear yourself much better, and will be able to back off the volume. You will probably need a stand that angles the thing, and yes, your amp head will not be on top of your cabinet once it's angled, but this is a necessary step in resolving your issue.
Whenever I've run into the "You're too loud / No, I'm not" scenario, this has been at least part of the problem - usually , it's all of it. It happens with bass, it happens with guitar - we share a common problem, in that our amps are designed to play to the audience, not to us. Nowadays, we have PA's, so our amps should be designed like monitors, but they aren't. If you want to be employable, understanding and fixing the problem yourself will help. A LOT. A band thats "easy to work with" gets re-hired constantly. A band that argues with the FOH person about volumes does not.
Here's a speaker stand I made - it can angle at 35 or 55 degrees by turning the thing around. I used to play a "coffee house" vibe gig, and I needed to hear myself without putting out much volume - there was a harp (the 7 foot tall variety, not a harmonica) that I needed to work with, and me being too loud would destroy the magic of that instrument. I actually put my speaker in front of me, not behind, so it was facing away from the audience, but right at my ears. Worked great - everyone was happy. You need something like this. If you have two cabinets, you need two of these.
Last edited:
Not usually but I have done it with my SansAmp BDDI straight to the PA without any problems. Normally I send the XLR to the PA and jack to my amp as stage monitor.
I've used an SGT-DI thru the PA on small gigs where space & volume were at a premium, like the end of aisle 16 at Krogers.
I actually listen to the sound folks I work with, and we work together on finding solutions so everyone is happy. I gig a lot. Coincidence?
s0c9
Supporting Member
It's interesting that so many "assumptions" about an environment, the sound guy and periphery are being made after a single post from the OP claiming that the FOH guy says bass is too loud.
WE can't know for sure unless we are there and given the human brain loves symmetry, it will try to fill any unknowns. It's how rumors start
As a bass player ( I wouldn't call myself a bassist) and long-time FOH guy, there's a LOT of maybe's involved - on both sides of the stage - that MIGHT cause the OP to post what they did. Some thoughts - with no offence intended to anyone.
1. Assuming DI, is the MB200 output set to pre or post? If post, then the master volume will impact send level to FOH, unless the 1x12 is being mic'd. NEITHER sound injection method were mentioned by OP.
2. If channel trim/gain level is set correctly, pushing the channel fader to unity should NOT cause clipping.
3. It might be the room and EQ
4. It might be the 40 yrs of OP playing has impacted hearing (again no offense intended.. just postulating)
5. Maybe the channel has a PAD engaged because the signal from the bass head is too hot, so he has to push the fader up to unity to get a level (been there done that) and thus needs you to turn down? See 1 above...
6. Communication is key. If any of the FOH guys I work with tell me I'm too loud on stage, I'll ask why and having more than a little knowledge of FOH sound, try to figure out the problem. I have been told there's buzz from (back when I used an amp) and had to find a grounded power source (who knew?). And yeah, I don't care who you are, if you are impacting my ability to mix the band because YOU are too loud.. I WILL tell you so. - in an appropriately professional way.
7. That the FOH guy is showing the OP what's happening on the board infers that he MIGHT understand gain, but doesn't have the experience to debug the problem?
8. AS OP says, how can they be too loud when FOH doesn't have any signal and has to push the fader.
In conclusion, it could be any number of things, but there's a few contradictions I'm reading here.
WE can't know for sure unless we are there and given the human brain loves symmetry, it will try to fill any unknowns. It's how rumors start
As a bass player ( I wouldn't call myself a bassist) and long-time FOH guy, there's a LOT of maybe's involved - on both sides of the stage - that MIGHT cause the OP to post what they did. Some thoughts - with no offence intended to anyone.
1. Assuming DI, is the MB200 output set to pre or post? If post, then the master volume will impact send level to FOH, unless the 1x12 is being mic'd. NEITHER sound injection method were mentioned by OP.
2. If channel trim/gain level is set correctly, pushing the channel fader to unity should NOT cause clipping.
3. It might be the room and EQ
4. It might be the 40 yrs of OP playing has impacted hearing (again no offense intended.. just postulating)
5. Maybe the channel has a PAD engaged because the signal from the bass head is too hot, so he has to push the fader up to unity to get a level (been there done that) and thus needs you to turn down? See 1 above...
6. Communication is key. If any of the FOH guys I work with tell me I'm too loud on stage, I'll ask why and having more than a little knowledge of FOH sound, try to figure out the problem. I have been told there's buzz from (back when I used an amp) and had to find a grounded power source (who knew?). And yeah, I don't care who you are, if you are impacting my ability to mix the band because YOU are too loud.. I WILL tell you so. - in an appropriately professional way.
7. That the FOH guy is showing the OP what's happening on the board infers that he MIGHT understand gain, but doesn't have the experience to debug the problem?
8. AS OP says, how can they be too loud when FOH doesn't have any signal and has to push the fader.
In conclusion, it could be any number of things, but there's a few contradictions I'm reading here.
s0c9
Supporting Member
OMG.. please NO !!
What this does is cause ANY output that has a feed from that channel having it's level changed with EVERY adjustment.. that includes IEM and wedges.
That is absolutely NOT the way to mix on ANY console.. atho' I've seen people do it.
Ever been on stage with someone mixing like that and wonder why your monitor mix constantly changes?
PS: While I removed the comment from the quote.. not all digis have two levels of gain.
For a few years I played at a church that had a Hartke KickBack 12 shoved under the chair.
They took a DI signal off that for the FOH.
I'd just show up with my bass and plug in. Didn't need a strap or even a cord.
They had BIG subs under the stage, and the sound guys were not afraid to use them!
It was a Pentacostal church so it could get exciting when the sound guys let them rattle the pews!
They took a DI signal off that for the FOH.
I'd just show up with my bass and plug in. Didn't need a strap or even a cord.
They had BIG subs under the stage, and the sound guys were not afraid to use them!
It was a Pentacostal church so it could get exciting when the sound guys let them rattle the pews!
I carry a Radial Bassbone for DI only gigs. But much of the time I just bring my GK MB Fusion head to those and run it without a cabinet because I like the way it sounds.
I was on a casino gig a few years ago where we got dismissed after the second set, presumably for playing too loud. I was a sub so it didn’t affect me much. This was not an IEM gig and that band’s guitarist was the type to play really loud and turn up from there every time someone told him he was too loud. No doubt he was the culprit.
Aside - this casino was a 90 minute drive from home and their policy was that performers couldn’t have drinks until after their set was over. I wanted a beer. I can guess why they established that policy, but I’m well past the time in my life where I need that kind of guardrails, so it did not break my heart to have that venue fall off of the gig list.
I was on a casino gig a few years ago where we got dismissed after the second set, presumably for playing too loud. I was a sub so it didn’t affect me much. This was not an IEM gig and that band’s guitarist was the type to play really loud and turn up from there every time someone told him he was too loud. No doubt he was the culprit.
Aside - this casino was a 90 minute drive from home and their policy was that performers couldn’t have drinks until after their set was over. I wanted a beer. I can guess why they established that policy, but I’m well past the time in my life where I need that kind of guardrails, so it did not break my heart to have that venue fall off of the gig list.
Last edited:
s0c9
Supporting Member
Casino's are notorious for doing that and requiring bands to play at 90db. .LOL
I was of the impression that gain could be set via trim with the balance of the system silent and using only PFL bargraphs for visual confirmation and adjustment. Once that's done, I can go to my channel sliders, mains sliders, and aux outputs (monitors) to balance things out.
Edit and @DWBass : are you involved with this Invalid Link Removed
Riis
Last edited:
Do you remember what kind of mixer it was?
Maybe you need to show him where the input trim is.?.?
Also, maybe the problem is the boom-in-da-room.
Don’t turn your bass down, just turn the “bass” way down or off. Go for a hollow tiny super bright sound at your amp.
It might sound like annoying awfulness to you at first, but it might be just whats needed to get the FOH sound right.
Last edited:
I have. Number one, a bad attitude is going to get you nowhere when dealing with your sound man. Don't bring a pre amp to "show them a thing or too". Bring it to help solve a problem they are having and trying to address.
Just a though, it might not be your total volume that is the problem, it may be the volume of certain frequencies that are exciting the room. My old church had extremely excitable at 250hz a major sweet spot for bass. The only way to deal with it was to not create it in the first place. So for 23 years, I used a a pre amp and ear buds.
A for them clipping, you didn't mention your interface with their mixing board, XLR? Mic?
Happened just last week... Preamp pedal, no amp, no IEM's, and I couldn't hear myself very well.
But that's not common for me because I'm usually better prepared. I like using an amp but if the SG has a problem I will put the (small) amp in front of me aimed at my face and will send either a direct signal or mic'd signal to FOH. I generally only carry a preamp as backup.
But that's not common for me because I'm usually better prepared. I like using an amp but if the SG has a problem I will put the (small) amp in front of me aimed at my face and will send either a direct signal or mic'd signal to FOH. I generally only carry a preamp as backup.
