Anyone gig with just a preamp pedal?

[DWBass]

Oh yeah, one more thought . . . .

I once had a sound tech tell me on the first break that even though he'd already turned me way down at the board the bass was still too loud out FOH and could I turn the volume down on my BG . . . . I sighed and told him to go talk to the heavy-left-handed keyboard player (who I had always struggled/competed with for "bass ranges" before). I guess they worked it out - I did not turn my volume down.

@DWBass , do you have a keys player in the group?

Yes but he's not one of those heavy left hand players.

 

[micguy]

Not that I know of. My band is called Seamless.

With you being constantly asked to turn down, I was guessing Metallica.

 

[s0c9]

Agreed, I never worked this way even with analogue mixers because of the reason you mentioned: I really need consistency. BUT I have seen lots of sound guy work this way and even if you check out YouTube videos from pros (or "pros") - this is their approach. I guess that if it's a one-time job, they don't care. Just a guess.
As for secondary gain (on Mackie it's called "trim"), I don't know how often it's available on digital mixers. In my case, I never need it, primary input gain is enough.

Yeah, it’s on the Mackie DL16S that I use. Other vendors call it digital gain, but usually not sitting right below the gain strip.

 

[tb-player]

At church, I go into the same pedal but use IEM. It sounds great out front.

Oh yeah, perfect for a church setup & IEMs. I occasionally sit in at a couple of local megachurches & Tone Hammer solo works great especially if you can utilize phantom power. Suuuuper convenient!!

 

[Hurricane Jimmie]

So Anyway, I love playing gigs with FOH and monitor support. I show up with my bass, a cord and a tuner. I'll bring my SansAmp Bass Driver, but I prefer to use whatever DI box they provide, because it's what they use all the time. I tell them when I can hear myself through the monitor that they provided for me.

I never use pedals, so I get whatever sound I'm looking for with my bass and chubby fingers. And the FOH is their concern.

I know there are a lot of horror stories about Sound Guys, but I figure that they know more about the venue, the audience, the room, the equipment and what the owner wants than I do. A lot more.

And then I play the gig and get paid for playing....and not hauling my equipment.

 

[DonaldR]

May I suggest you use a passive DI just for testing? Only your bass and the DI, nothing else. There's no active electronic involve and output is at mic level, impossible to clip anything.

 

[DWBass]

May I suggest you use a passive DI just for testing? Only your bass and the DI, nothing less. There's no active electronic involve and output is at mic level, impossible to clip anything.

I do own a couple.

 

[newfuture]

...at the same time don't have enough signal from my amp and can only get me in FOH by moving the fader up to unity. Then claims if they move me up that far it induces clipping.

Soundpeople, please feel free to chime in!!

The sound people you are working with are morons. Source - I am a sound people.

Somebody doing an actual mix should be gain staging so their faders are around unity during the show. Reason being is faders are at their smoothest place of travel around unity, and the rest of the system should be set up in such a way that this does not cause clipping downstream.

 

[DWBass]

The sound people you are working with are morons. Source - I am a sound people.

Somebody doing an actual mix should be gain staging so their faders are around unity during the show. Reason being is faders are at their smoothest place of travel around unity, and the rest of the system should be set up in such a way that this does not cause clipping downstream.

It's all good. I got something for their butts come next gig!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I'm currently gigging at a Casino and the sound folks continue to claim I'm too loud while at the same time don't have enough signal from my amp and can only get me in FOH by moving the fader up to unity. Then claims if they move me up that far it induces clipping. I'm at a loss and confused. So I'm giving up using an amp and will try to use just the preamp pedal and ask for a monitor. Then see what their excuse is.

Last gig I used my GK MB200 into an 8ohm 1x12 cab. My volume was at 9 o'clock. Not loud at all but he kept saying I was too loud. I used a Markbass LMII before that. I brought the MB 200 in an attempt to lower my volume. Same thing. It's pissing me off!

Soundpeople, please feel free to chime in!!

I've played a number of times with just my WTDI. It's stompbox DI with built-in Eden WT preamp and compressor. Works great and records even better. I usually add a little low-mid boost on my '82 Jazz at 250Hz, but can only choose between a low-mid frequency or 500Hz and a hi-mid frequency of 2KHz. So I always choose the 500Hz frequency and boost it up to 1:30. And I did a recording session at a pro-studio back in 2019 where they wanted me to go direct through the board because of too much bleed in the signals with the bass and drums in the same room. These guys were good but both the sound engineer and owner came out into the room to see what I was using. They just used the raw signal I sent and didn't make any EQ adjustments or add any compression at that point, just adjusted the level. They were shocked it sounded so good.

First time I ran straight into a board with it was playing a small venue where they had forced me to use their 112 combo back line. Got there one Friday and it was gone. So I just plugged into our PA and played through that with a monitor pointing up at me. It worked just fine and it sounded like I was using one of my Eden amps.

I carry that little rascal in my gig bag and bring it out when needed. I still like to use amp and cab and have rigs for small, medium and large indoor venues as well as outdoor venues and Music Festivals rig.

Here's the WTDI preamp/DI pedal:

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

I don't feel the necessity to run my signal through additional knobs when the venue has a professional mixing desk and a paid engineer to take care of the tone - who can hear the FoH sound (unlike me on stage).

With active basses, I typically run into a DI directly. With passive basses, I merely run through my Sadowsky preamp pedal with mild settings to breathe some life into my basic tone. That's about it.

Amps on stage can be problematic. In venues, where I get to play through an amp, it serves as a personal monitor only - not a tone shaping tool or FoH audio source. I send the signal from the amp to the desk in "Pre" mode, to prevent my stage EQ changes from affecting the FoH.

We typically agree on keeping the amps volume low, otherwise it may dominate the stage sound or even leak to the audience - either through the cab or through stage mics. The engineer sets up monitor / FoH volume and EQ of my bass as they see fit, not my job / concern.

 

[s0c9]

Somebody doing an actual mix should be gain staging so their faders are around unity during the show. Reason being is faders are at their smoothest place of travel around unity, and the rest of the system should be set up in such a way that this does not cause clipping downstream.

I'm sorry, but this is WRONG and I need to correct the misinformation, because people will read and believe.

At sound check when setting up, to be sure, set your fader at unity then adjust the input gain level to appropriate level ("tickle the orange".??). but that's it's.
Faders are used to set the amount of properly gained channel in the overall mix.
They do NOT NEED stay at unity during the show, nor should they be unless a specific channels gain structure warrants.
Yes, it CAN be done in the manner described in the quote if FOH and monitor mixes are on separate consoles, but shouldn't be.
My bands all have IEM rigs, but we still gain stage the inputs. Very few (if any) of the faders on anyone's mix are at unity during the show.

I'm not sure what "smoothest place of travel" means as many vendors consoles have fader "sweet spots" in places other than unity.
Experience on each will indicate where those are.
There shouldn't be any downstream clipping if gain levels for each channel are set correctly. caveat: I'm ignoring effects and output buss levels.

 

[DWBass]

I should bring my Hotone Thunder Bass amp. 5w of thunder!! If they say I'm too loud, I'm going to shoot someone!! LOL!

 

[DWBass]

Try using just the preamp pedal and going direct to the board. Ask for a monitor mix so you can hear yourself. Sometimes a quick chat with the sound tech can clear things up.

I'm going to do just that. As for chatting with the sound tech.........been there, done that. I've determined that he's not as experienced as he says he is. It's quite obvious that the channel is not properly set up. I've provided and operated sound for another band I was in and I never had such issues! Never. Admittedly, I was using a 16 channel analog mixer. I know what I'm doing. His explanation just made no sense. I'm too loud (my amp/GK MB200 was at 9 o'clock and no real boost in the eq), yet at the same time, not enough signal in the channel. Next gig, I am NOT bringing my rig. Just my preamp/DI and a passive DI. Not sure which I'll use yet. I may try the passive DI first.

 

[DonaldR]

Somebody doing an actual mix should be gain staging so their faders are around unity during the show. Reason being is faders are at their smoothest place of travel around unity, and the rest of the system should be set up in such a way that this does not cause clipping downstream.

IMHO it's not the way to gain stage a mixer. You should solo each channel pre-everything and set your gain to 0db (or around it) at the loudest peak.
Maybe the OP soundguy is not doing it and it's the reason he's dealing with clipping.

 

[newfuture]

I'm sorry, but this is WRONG and I need to correct the misinformation, because people will read and believe.

At sound check when setting up, to be sure, set your fader at unity then adjust the input gain level to appropriate level ("tickle the orange".??). but that's it's.
Faders are used to set the amount of properly gained channel in the overall mix.
They do NOT NEED stay at unity during the show, nor should they be unless a specific channels gain structure warrants.
Yes, it CAN be done in the manner described in the quote if FOH and monitor mixes are on separate consoles, but shouldn't be.
My bands all have IEM rigs, but we still gain stage the inputs. Very few (if any) of the faders on anyone's mix are at unity during the show.

I'm not sure what "smoothest place of travel" means as many vendors consoles have fader "sweet spots" in places other than unity.
Experience on each will indicate where those are.
There shouldn't be any downstream clipping if gain levels for each channel are set correctly. caveat: I'm ignoring effects and output buss levels.

I'm not saying they have to be at unity. Just around. If you are clipping when you go to unity, input trims are too high.

 

[newfuture]

IMHO it's not the way to gain stage a mixer. You should solo each channel pre-everything and set your gain to 0db (or around it) at the loudest peak.
Maybe the OP soundguy is not doing it and it's the reason he's dealing with clipping.

This works well, and is the method Mackie described in their manuals beginning in the late '80s / early '90s (?). The claim was it gives you the best signal to noise ratio (at least on analog systems).

It can get you into trouble if you are working with a band that is prone to playing louder during a set then during sound check. It's bit me in the ass before; setting faders to unity and roughing in the mix on pads and input trims, if necessary, while listening to the room, never has. YMMV.

 

[richntiff]

Interesting. How do you have this set up? I'm happy with my YYZ into a plain vanilla DI, but I'm always looking to check out different options.

It's just Bass-Shure GLXD wireless-YYZ-SCR-->FOH. Very simple. The YYZ and Ampeg both bring something to the tone that I think really complement each other. At some point, I'll jump on an SGT-DI, then hopefully retire both the YYZ and SCR (if I'm happy with just the SGT).

 

[s0c9]

I'm not saying they have to be at unity. Just around. If you are clipping when you go to unity, input trims are too high.

Ok. My misinterpretation, but even around unity is only needed based on input gain.
IOW - you don't back down the channel gain just to be able to have the fader at/near unity.
One sets the input gain for the channel and use the fader to where that channel best fits in the mix.

And yes, +100% if "you are clipping when you go to unity, input trims are too high."

 

[DWBass]

IMHO it's not the way to gain stage a mixer. You should solo each channel pre-everything and set your gain to 0db (or around it) at the loudest peak.
Maybe the OP soundguy is not doing it and it's the reason he's dealing with clipping.

The way I did it on my analog mixer was to set the gain levels on the channels and watch the LED's first then bring up the faders for FOH. Never an issue............well except for that time I plugged the keyboards into an insert instead of the input and had no control on the fader, LOL! Now, I have very little experience using a digital mixer. Had a Behringer XR-12 for a brief minute and had to figure out how to bring the gain up (in a different window). This venue uses an Allen & Heath digital mixer. And every single time we play there, it's literally 2 hours of this mess of a soundcheck! Every time I see these cats approach me, I already know what they're about to say. "Can you turn your amp down?" Well, next week, they are going to be surprised when I show up with just a DI box!!