Anyone still prefer Class A/B amps over Class D?

[Mosfed]

The high road in this case, IMO, is being accurate and not perpetuating internet/marketing myths and rumors. Otherwise, providing and supporting incorrect info. does nothing positive for anybody else here.

No - the high road is saying exactly what you said about the facts and just leaving out the snarkiness.

But to each their own. The snarkiness does make the forum more fun.

 

[Rockbobmel]

So, I'm 62, have 2 bad shoulders, work 45+ hrs a week, play in a dinosaur band 2+ x month, load in and out set up- equip and PA- (6hrs approx with playing time).
Scale that whole scene, and tell me the difference a 6 lb D- and 44 lb tube amp make.
The weight defense is moot to me. I don't know what all the hype is about with the weight!
I get it if you are in NYC and park 3 blocks away and climb 4 floors with one trip for a jazz gig.

What am I missing?

 

[shoot-r]

I just noticed that when I go to Sweetwater, the most expensive bass amps are still Class A/B and seem to be highly desired here on TB. High end tube amps followed by solid state amps such as an Aguilar DB751, GK 2001RB, Mesa Carbine, TC Blacksmith, SVT 3/4, GK Fusion etc. Only after those, do Class D heads come up.

Does anyone one still prefer the tone or some other aspect of a class A/B amp over a class D head?

Personally, I have 2 amps, one of each. A TC BH250 and a Hartke HA4000 which I recently bought to have a good solid amp at my rehearsal space and for gigs, which allows my TC to be a backup, which I needed. I'm questioning my purchase however. Not because of the tone or the amp it's self, which are both great, but why did I buy a heavier class A/B amp instead of a class D? I got the Hartke for reliability, tone and power, and it delivers in all 3 categories.

But, it is also hard for me to question class D tone, power or reliability. I guess it seems class D is now preferred, but if you still prefer Class A/B/ amps, why?

My experience with the "4" class D Micros I owned and gigged before returning to heavy, old school heads.

I was early on the Micro bandwagon, trying to save alittle on weight.

#1....was a G.K. MB2-500.
Liked the over-all tone, but it would run out of steam on louder, bigger stage jobs.
After a years use it started having problems.
G.K. serviced it and I found it a new home.

#2....a Ampeg PF-500.
It lasted 30 seconds into it's first power-up and burnt out.

#3....Ampeg replaced the first PF-500 with a brand new PF-500.
It lasted roughfully 5 hours of use and it to burnt-out just as the first one had.
Liked it's tone while it worked.

Had to have a dependable head to work with.
Bought a inexpensive, brand new, heavy, old-school, Hartke LH1000 to get me through a couple of months of jobs.
WOW....brought back that "slam and punch" my ears didn't realize was missing.
After a couple years of using the LH1000 I thought I'd give the D's another try.
Sold the LH1000.

#4....G.K. MB-800.
PLENTY of power, dependable the little over a year I gigged with it.
I just could never seem to bond with it.
I was constantly turning the knobs looking for the big, ole' heavy head sound of the LH1000.

Then my ears had a opening....a friend lent me his old Mesa M-6 Carbine head.
Had the slam and punch of the Hartke LH1000 with a much clearer bottom and a "sparkle" on the leading edge of the note with the feeling of fast and un-ending available power, plus, my friend wanted to trade even-up for my G.K. MB-800.

I've had the M-6 for a couple of years now, liked it so much I've now got two of them!

I'll still give the micros a try, but it's going to take something absolutely "GREAT" to get my ears to part with these Mesa's....



....

 

[joel406]

The OP was asking about why people prefer one over the other. If you have never played a Class D amp then your opinions on them will be disregarded by anyone reading them so why bother posting here?


There may be other reasons why someone would choose a class D amp other than having muscular dystrophy. Some people actually like the way some of them sound.

The headline says: "Anyone still prefer Class A/B amps over Class D?", and I am responding to that by giving my opinion on that matter, even if I, as I clearly make people aware of in the post, doesn't have much to base it on.

I have every right to prefer something over something else, even if it's based mostly on prejudice and assumption.

Even if I actually had more experience with Class D amps, other than listening to demos on YouTube, what I would have to say would still be nothing more than just an opinion based on personal preferences.

Don't you think people should judge by them self weather they should disregard my post as irrelevant or not, rather than you telling them to do so.

May I ask you to look at your self for a moment, and then honestly answer: What exactly does what you just posted bring to the topic that OP asks?

I would dare to say that my original post at least was 100% more on topic than yours.

Also it seems that humor is not exactly one of your strong expertises.

I play class D amps. No trouble ever hearing myself. No trouble sitting right in the mix. No trouble being heard by others in the band. And I could easily over power anything in the band. And that's with just one of my 410 cabs. With both I can get the attention of law enforcement.

And the tone my class D's have.... well lets just say that I predict an extinction level event for class anything else.

 

[NoiseNinja]

I play class D amps. No trouble ever hearing myself. No trouble sitting right in the mix. No trouble being heard by others in the band. And I could easily over power anything in the band. And that's with just one of my 410 cabs. With both I can get the attention of law enforcement.

And the tone my class D's have.... well lets just say that I predict an extinction level event for class anything else.

I have nothing against people preferring the easy way out, and thinking they made the best possible choice, as long as they don't wish for others that their preferred option becomes an unavailable one.

Also with the sturdiness old amps often are build, I predict that you are wrong.

I owned an Ampeg B-15S produced in 1969 once, I played the crap out of it for about 9 years, if my memory serves me right from about 2000-2009, never once had any problems with it whatsoever, and when I sold it it worked just a flawlessly as when I bought it.

Also just bought a Dyncord Bass King from 1963, and although it admittedly just recently has been completely renovated before I got it, it both plays and sounds beautiful.

It'll be interesting to see how much abuse a Class D amp would put up to before it quit or began sounding less amazing and how many of those amps produced today are still around and working flawlessly in about 40-45 years.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

I just noticed that when I go to Sweetwater, the most expensive bass amps are still Class A/B and seem to be highly desired here on TB. High end tube amps followed by solid state amps such as an Aguilar DB751, GK 2001RB, Mesa Carbine, TC Blacksmith, SVT 3/4, GK Fusion etc. Only after those, do Class D heads come up.

Does anyone one still prefer the tone or some other aspect of a class A/B amp over a class D head?

Personally, I have 2 amps, one of each. A TC BH250 and a Hartke HA4000 which I recently bought to have a good solid amp at my rehearsal space and for gigs, which allows my TC to be a backup, which I needed. I'm questioning my purchase however. Not because of the tone or the amp it's self, which are both great, but why did I buy a heavier class A/B amp instead of a class D? I got the Hartke for reliability, tone and power, and it delivers in all 3 categories.

But, it is also hard for me to question class D tone, power or reliability. I guess it seems class D is now preferred, but if you still prefer Class A/B/ amps, why?

I usually gig with my Genz-Benz Shuttlemax 12.2 (class D) because it sounds really good, is incredibly versatile, and convenient. But my ancient Yamaha PB1 into USA Crown Powerbase 2 has a thicker, blunter attack that the Class D Genz can't quite do without pushing the gain and raising the noise floor. So for a vintage sound, I do prefer the class A/B. I never fell in love with any all tube amps until a couple years ago as I have always liked the crisp starkness and more drastic tone shaping SS affords, but the Mesa Prodigy changed my opinion. More recently the Ampeg PF 50-t has also really impressed me. This newer generation seems to allow more radical tone control and the use as a silent DI is also a big selling point to me (not sure if the Mesa allows that?).

I guess what it comes down to is I perform a lot of different styles (rock, jazz, country, reggae, bluegrass), and want one amp to do all of them well. Back in the day when I needed effects too, I used the bass pod pro into the crown. The shuttlemax has come the closest to that versatility I want. A/B still has its place, as do tubes, I wouldn't be surprised if my next amp purchase was tubes since they seem to have turned the corner in versatility.

 

[Rockbobmel]

You will only find working ones because when they (D's) fail, they get discarded rather than repaired (mostly....)

 

[Munjibunga]

No - the high road is saying exactly what you said about the facts and just leaving out the snarkiness.

But to each their own. The snarkiness does make the forum more fun.

... to each his own ...

 

[craigie]

I always use my RH450. For what I do it sounds great and has a great DI. Most of my stage sound is just that, and I do love the tone. The preamp is so great, and combined with built in compressor, tuner, tube tone and programmable presets it's just so damn handy.
My SVT CL sits waiting the day it will finally get use along with the towering peavey project 3 speakers I have in the garage.
My GK400rb is an unused "backup" that never gets taken out anyway. That one is in case I get an outdoor gig where it might rain or for when we will play out in the forest or if I need a ton of power and balls.
My Traynor tube amp is my home practice amp and just sounds nice and smooth.

I had a LH500 and didn't like the lack of preamp control and I perceived a weakness/flabbiness/lack of focus of the E string. The pro I sold it to as a backup loved it but had a very extensive preamp setup including alembic FX1 etc.

What I've always found from "solid state" A/B amps is a "clickiness" I never liked and tried to tame.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Aren't valve amps class A?

No. Doesn't have anything to do with the class.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Many of the Led Sleds are Class G and H also.

 

[Geordiecs]

I have a m/b bass 400+ and quilter bass block 800.

I prefer each of them in different situations.

Fight me.

 

[joel406]

I play class D amps. No trouble ever hearing myself. No trouble sitting right in the mix. No trouble being heard by others in the band. And I could easily over power anything in the band. And that's with just one of my 410 cabs. With both I can get the attention of law enforcement.

And the tone my class D's have.... well lets just say that I predict an extinction level event for class anything else.

I have nothing against people preferring the easy way out, and thinking they made the best possible choice, as long as they don't wish for others that their preferred option becomes an unavailable one.

Also with the sturdiness old amps often are build, I predict that you are wrong.

I owned an Ampeg B-15S produced in 1969 once, I played the crap out of it for about 9 years, if my memory serves me right from about 2000-2009, never once had any problems with it whatsoever, and when I sold it it worked just a flawlessly as when I bought it.

Also just bought a Dyncord Bass King from 1963, and although it admittedly just recently has been completely renovated before I got it, it both plays and sounds beautiful.

It'll be interesting to see how much abuse a Class D amp would put up to before it quit or began sounding less amazing and how many of those amps produced today are still around and working flawlessly in about 40-45 years.

My class D GK MB-800 I've had for 3 years. No problems. Not sure when they were originally put to market. I'm guessing 06? Probably wrong on that. But I've seen no complaints about the stoutness of it. My Mesa D-800+ came with a 5 year warranty and while it can be "debated" a warranty means nothing in terms of real world reliability Mesa has always putout quality products.

As always people resist change and want to believe that what has worked in the past will always be the best thing going.

I'm not new to the amp market. In fact I've been watching it since the 1970's. late 1970's.

I've heard good, better and great sounding amps. My class d's are in the "how the f***" did they do that category.

Tubes are gone the way of the dodo for me. And I'll put either of my class D amps against anything.

Of course having killer cabs help.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I’m sure there’s a lot of players who think they can hear a difference. I cannot, well until I pick the amp up that is!

 

[Geordiecs]

Of course having killer cabs help.

+1

 

[NoiseNinja]

My class D GK MB-800 I've had for 3 years. No problems. Not sure when they were originally put to market. I'm guessing 06? Probably wrong on that. But I've seen no complaints about the stoutness of it. My Mesa D-800+ came with a 5 year warranty and while it can be "debated" a warranty means nothing in terms of real world reliability Mesa has always putout quality products.

As always people resist change and want to believe that what has worked in the past will always be the best thing going.

I'm not new to the amp market. In fact I've been watching it since the 1970's. late 1970's.

I've heard good, better and great sounding amps. My class d's are in the "how the f***" did they do that category.

Tubes are gone the way of the dodo for me. And I'll put either of my class D amps against anything.

Of course having killer cabs help.

I predict the P bass will go extinct by next year and all exiting ones will magically break.

Instead people will be using computer generated digital synth emulations.

Also ultimately our consciousness will be digitized and we'll all be living in a computer emulated world anyway.

Let's see how you are going to use your precious Class D amp then!

To get back to your point, there is quite the difference of something standing the test of time for 5-10 years and something that has worked for 40-45 years.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Where do you get that it's not???

Read through the manual to find out.
Invalid Link Removed

Not convinced yet????? Watch the video.



If you still don't believe there are Class A, bass amps out there, there's nothing more I can show you. Just google for yourself.

I just love people who think you can evaluate instruments and amplification systems via internet content and their associated devices.

Hmmmm. I downloaded the manual and it states Class-A preamp. Pretty clear to me they mean it has a Class-A preamp.

The video also states their design goal was to be lightweight. Class A power amps are not lightweight, and also radiate so much heat, you could never enclose it in a combo, much less a tiny combo like the ones they are showing.

Class A power amps made some inroads in the hi-i world many decades back, but their size, weight, and nuclear fission-like heat radiating properties made them a fairly exotic choice for mainstream acceptance.

 

[Joebone]

My current favorite is an all tube amp, but that's not the question.

I like the way a good class A/B hits at the front of the note. Staccato or those little ghost note thumps better communicate for me through A/B. The difference to my ears is not subtle. But, and this is a big but, I really don't care if it takes me several trips to drag my gear to a stage or if it weighs a bit. I'm a small old guy who is ornery enough to carry what ever will make the noise I want.

What Interceptor said!!! A/B better preserves the envelope of each note as played, and I believes this improves the sense of slam and impact. I also use class D - old Genz Benz 3.0 for home practice and quiet settings, and have copped a Mesa Subway 800+, which I find quite impressive...but in truth, my Thunderfunk walks over any and all Class D I've played through or heard. BTW, some thread participant suggested that Class D would be better for funk and R&B, but it's more likely the other way around - the Mesa demonstrates how good class D can get a fat and creamy sound, but transient attacks - and slap and pop are all about that - will profit from Class A/B superiority in this regard. EDIT - at the end of the day, even the best Class D I've experienced has a sort of compressed character, particularly evident in the attack on each note.

 

[Geordiecs]

I predict the P bass will go instinct by next year and all exiting ones will magically break.

Instead people will be using computer generated digital synth emulations.

Also ultimately out consciousness will be digitized and we'll all be living in a computer emulated world anyway.

Let's see how you are going to use your precious Class D amp then!

To get back to your point, there is quite the difference of something standing the test of time for 5-10 years and something that has worked for 40-45 years.

Can't wait to run my consciousness emulation through deep dream

 

[joel406]

I predict the P bass will go instinct by next year and all exiting ones will magically break.

Instead people will be using computer generated digital synth emulations.

Also ultimately our consciousness will be digitized and we'll all be living in a computer emulated world anyway.

Let's see how you are going to use your precious Class D amp then!

To get back to your point, there is quite the difference of something standing the test of time for 5-10 years and something that has worked for 40-45 years.

Good luck with that. Maybe extinct?