Anyone still prefer Class A/B amps over Class D?

[FingerDub]

Killer feedback, thanks for sharing.

My experience with the "4" class D Micros I owned and gigged before returning to heavy, old school heads.

I was early on the Micro bandwagon, trying to save alittle on weight.

#1....was a G.K. MB2-500.
Liked the over-all tone, but it would run out of steam on louder, bigger stage jobs.
After a years use it started having problems.
G.K. serviced it and I found it a new home.

#2....a Ampeg PF-500.
It lasted 30 seconds into it's first power-up and burnt out.

#3....Ampeg replaced the first PF-500 with a brand new PF-500.
It lasted roughfully 5 hours of use and it to burnt-out just as the first one had.
Liked it's tone while it worked.

Had to have a dependable head to work with.
Bought a inexpensive, brand new, heavy, old-school, Hartke LH1000 to get me through a couple of months of jobs.
WOW....brought back that "slam and punch" my ears didn't realize was missing.
After a couple years of using the LH1000 I thought I'd give the D's another try.
Sold the LH1000.

#4....G.K. MB-800.
PLENTY of power, dependable the little over a year I gigged with it.
I just could never seem to bond with it.
I was constantly turning the knobs looking for the big, ole' heavy head sound of the LH1000.

Then my ears had a opening....a friend lent me his old Mesa M-6 Carbine head.
Had the slam and punch of the Hartke LH1000 with a much clearer bottom and a "sparkle" on the leading edge of the note with the feeling of fast and un-ending available power, plus, my friend wanted to trade even-up for my G.K. MB-800.

I've had the M-6 for a couple of years now, liked it so much I've now got two of them!

I'll still give the micros a try, but it's going to take something absolutely "GREAT" to get my ears to part with these Mesa's....



....

 

[NoiseNinja]

Good luck with that. Maybe extinct?

You know people have lost the argument when the only thing they have left to do is picking on your skills at spelling correctly.

 

[Badwater]

Hmmmm. I downloaded the manual and it states Class-A preamp. Pretty clear to me they mean it has a Class-A preamp.

The video also states their design goal was to be lightweight. Class A power amps are not lightweight, and also radiate so much heat, you could never enclose it in a combo, much less a tiny combo like the ones they are showing.

Class A power amps made some inroads in the hi-i world many decades back, but their size, weight, and nuclear fission-like heat radiating properties made them a fairly exotic choice for mainstream acceptance.

One of the major factors for amp weight in the electronics for class A and A/B amps is often the huge transformers. That along with cabinet design and speaker magnet material can also contribute to more weight. The Warwick BC20 amps use solid state design for power and preamp, thus less transformer size and weight. I haven't experienced any heat issues, as it's a low watt low power consumption amp. Once you get into the higher power of larger amps, the transformers could release more heat.

 

[14pounds]

OB-1 500 is neat. Sounds like the Compsognargus from the Jurassic Park series only it doesn't sound like them at all, it sounds more like a bass amp. You have to plug it in for it to make sounds though, otherwise it's silent. I guess if you dropped it down some stairs unplugged it would make some sound, still not the supposed sound of small carnivorous dinosaurs, but a still sound; I recommend plugging it in if you wish you play bass with it. I'm not experianced enough to compare it to Class D(dinosaur?) amps.

 

[prowla]

No. Doesn't have anything to do with the class.

Ah, on doing a bit more research (ie. typing "class b valve amplifier" into google), I see that indeed there are other than class-A valve amps.

I guess I had taken common practice in hi-fi and thought it was a general thing.

 

[Steve]

I'll still give the micros a try, but it's going to take something absolutely "GREAT" to get my ears to part with these Mesa's....
....

If it makes you feel any better, it will have Mesa Engineering stamped on it

 

[superdick2112]

I prefer the fuller tone & note weight of my Class A/B Phil Jones M-500, but I am willing to sacrifice that small tonal difference for the convenience of Class D portability.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Ah, on doing a bit more research (ie. typing "class b valve amplifier" into google), I see that indeed there are other than class-A valve amps.

I guess I had taken common practice in hi-fi and thought it was a general thing.

Most are A/B. Never heard of a Class B amp for backline gear, or any other type of gear, but if I'm wrong, correct me.

 

[shoot-r]

If it makes you feel any better, it will have Mesa Engineering stamped on it

I did A/B the Mesa D-800 Micro recently to one of my M-6's.

Absolutely the BEST micro I've auditioned to date without any doubt to my ears.

Want to try the 800+ when they arrive at the Mesa dealer I deal with.

"IF" a micro can sway me from the M-6's it would probably be another Mesa heads sound.

There's just something special going on with the M-6's that I've not encountered with any other amp....yet!

 

[Coolhandjjl]

One of the major factors for amp weight in the electronics for class A and A/B amps is often the huge transformers. That along with cabinet design and speaker magnet material can also contribute to more weight. The Warwick BC20 amps use solid state design for power and preamp, thus less transformer size and weight. I haven't experienced any heat issues, as it's a low watt low power consumption amp. Once you get into the higher power of larger amps, the transformers could release more heat.

You would not experience any heat issues with that product as the power amp is not Class A. A Class A preamp would generate no noticeable additional heat on it's own.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

A well-implemented class D is far superior to a poorly implemented class A/B.

One topology isn't inherently better than the other. It's all in the implementation.

 

[pfschim]

Personally I don't suffer from muscular dystrophy, so I don't really have any need for a lightweight amp.

I might be a bit old fashioned in that department, but from what I heard I am not too fond of the tone from class D amps.

I haven't tried any out personally, so I might be wrong in my assumption that most class D amps are equipped with a tone that matches their weight.

Which would mean anemic and lifeless without any depth.

As I said it might just be prejudices, as I don't have much to base my opinion on.

But on the other hand the steady stream of threads of people equipped with 800W class D amps that have serious problems cutting through or hearing them self, kind of confirms my assumptions.

What I do know for sure though, is that I love the tone I get from my current setup, which is something as old fashioned as a Trace Elliot GP75SM 130W solid state combo equipped with a 15" run simultaneous with a Dynacord Bass King 50W all tubes amp also with a 15" cab that takes care of adding a bit of grit to my tone.

I'll leave the muscular distrophy comment alone.
I have used full Tube/AB amps and several hybrids.
Lately I am running a Demeter VTBP-M-800D for most gigs, and no one who heard it, or uses one, would call that amps hitting power lightweight, anemic or lifeless.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Do I like heavier or lighter? Hm...What does Boris have to say......

I have to agree, getting hit with a class A/B amp is going to hurt more than getting hit with a class D amp.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

A well-implemented class D is far superior to a poorly implemented class A/B.

One topology isn't inherently better than the other. It's all in the implementation.

I'll add a caveat; Classes B and C are NOT for audio amplification. Class B is more efficient than A or A/B, but it has significantly more crossover distortion as the signal passes from positive to negative and back. Class C is for RF applications.

Class A is the most inefficient, but also the lowest distortion. A/B is the trade-off between distortion and efficiency. That has nothing to do with how much power is delivered, how dynamic the power is delivered, how it interacts/reacts to the load, etc.

 

[Steve]

Want to try the 800+ when they arrive at the Mesa dealer I deal with.

Yes. Yes you do. The combination of the voicing, high pass and bass knobs? 100% control of the bottom end.

 

[pfschim]

The headline says: "Anyone still prefer Class A/B amps over Class D?", and I am responding to that by giving my opinion on that matter, even if I, as I clearly make people aware of in the post, doesn't have much to base it on.

I have every right to prefer something over something else, even if it's based mostly on prejudice and assumption.

Even if I actually had more experience with Class D amps, other than listening to demos on YouTube, what I would have to say would still be nothing more than just an opinion based on personal preferences.

Don't you think people should judge by them self weather they should disregard my post as irrelevant or not, rather than you telling them to do so.

May I ask you to look at your self for a moment, and then honestly answer: What exactly does what you just posted bring to the topic that OP asks?

I would dare to say that my original post at least was 100% more on topic than yours.

Also it seems that humor is not exactly one of your strong expertises.

so are you saying your original post was a joke, because it kind of reads like one, but I can't quite tell

 

[sawzalot]

I've gotten to the point where I care more about the preamp stage than the power stage. I use IEM's for every gig, and I leave the volume knob on my amp at zero. With the IEM earbuds in I can't hear the amp even if I want to.

I *feel* the low end through the PA though, and I like that a lot. And when it comes to big systems, one of the advantages of class D and its variants is power draw--they generally pull much less power than equivalent class AB amps when making an equivalent amount of noise. So if I can walk into a venue knowing that I only need 200 (electrical) amps of power to make the same noise that I would need 1000 (electrical) amps for, then I'm way ahead. Then there's less weight to truck around, which means fewer trucks, fewer crew to move them, etc etc.

Tom

 

[NoiseNinja]

so are you saying your original post was a joke, because it kind of reads like one, but I can't quite tell

Are you one of those people who prefer having the point of a joke explained to you before they tell you the actual joke?

 

[pfschim]

Are you one of those people who prefer having the point of a joke explained to you before they tell you the actual joke?

no, your post(s) so far are already funny enough .. but perhaps not in the way you imagine

 

[NoiseNinja]

no, your post(s) so far are already funny enough .. but perhaps not in the way you imagine

Perhaps, I never claimed I was a skilled psychic.