Are bass amps obsolete?

[PaulDouglas]

In every situation I have played in the last several years FOH has controlled the bass, volume and tone. My stage amp, when I have occasion to use one, serves as my personal monitor. This is not only on big stages but also in small clubs when band leader provides sound and mix. FOH always wants the stage volume down so they can control the mix. And yet, it seems almost every day, a new bass amp is out.
Thoughts?

My head has a switch that allows me to send the FOH board my choice of pre or post EQ. I need a little more than 100 watts to hear over the drums, but I don't think I've ever had my 350 watt head past halfway, even at the casinos. I don't have an issue with FOH controlling volume, but I love my ability to control my sound.

 

[dan rathbun]

It's important to ask the question: is your amp a personal monitor? or is it creating "your sound".

I think the "Bass" world is evenly devided. I've had plenty of bass players come into the studio who didn't even poses the language to describe the sound they wanted. in these cases it's best left up to the sound man.
Others have fiddled endlessly and found something unique and should have their cabinets mic'd and possibly combined with a DI.

I think bass players get away with not really thinking through their sound. doing some simple multi track rehearsal recordings can be very illuminating. I would recommend it for everyone (not just bass players) as a learning tool.

Personally i've spent a life time creating my own bass sound with a huge rack full of crap so once the signal gets to the sound guy it is exactly what i want. but as far as hearing on stage if the monitors are solid i don't need my own stack of speakers. that said it's not always the case that the club will have enough monitors or that they will be up to the task of reproducing a bass sound.

 

[seamonkey]

Our friends went to a wedding that was "earbuds only" for the reception music. So I think your prognostication is right on track.

Quiet parties and venues are happening more and more. Easy to get permits. Some with choices of of music, look for people with same LED colors on their receivers to discover who likes the same music as you, ... and it collects stats on who listens to what and which ears more money.

Get a good sound with a pre-amp, pedals, etc on the small signal and feed this to the board. It will sound good in any venue from small clubs mixed on stage, to huge arenas with the right FOH engineer.

 

[Rneckties31]

definitely not obsolete for me. I run in ear monitors and mic my cab so I get the tone from my amp.

 

[Andy Krishak]

Have done big amps and all that crap over the years and it makes the sound man crazy. The current band was rough for him before I joined. Basically he had to mix everyone to match the stage bass volume and they were always complaining about the monitors not being punchy enough and quite a few times I saw them, the band was too loud for the room. Once I joined, I set us up with IEMs, but I like hearing the stage sound as well as the other members, so we all only use one ear piece mostly for vocals and acoustic guitar. On occasion, we may mix in some electric guitar if the stage is more open. Will tell ya that it was a struggle to get on one guitarist on board with the IEMs, but he has seen the light. I have a Genz benz Shuttle 110 (direct out from the amp) with an extension cabinet shooting across the stage for the drummer and the other guitarist. Stage volume is just enough so we can hear each other over the drums (not much louder than at rehearsal). Never going back...plus my entire rig including 2 basses fits easily in my VW Golf and I still have room for a passenger (or 2 if really needed).

 

[JKdemeter]

As an amp builder this is something that I have observed trending for a few years as amp sales have flattened. This is one reason we put production of our 1200 watt amp on hold. At NAMM we showed a small pre-amp with 3 balanced outputs, one for the house (selectable pre or post eq) and another for in ears and a third for an amp. I don't know if this is going to be the future but but it may be. The sales of our Tube Direct Boxes has gone up so maybe that is a sign. To me nothing feels better and the sound a well amplified Bass. Times change.

 

[Paragon3]

As an amp builder this is something that I have observed trending for a few years as amp sales have flattened. This is one reason we put production of our 1200 watt amp on hold. At NAMM we showed a small pre-amp with 3 balanced outputs, one for the house (selectable pre or post eq) and another for in ears and a third for an amp. I don't know if this is going to be the future but but it may be. The sales of our Tube Direct Boxes has gone up so maybe that is a sign. To me nothing feels better and the sound a well amplified Bass. Times change.

Literally the only thing that I looked for when buying an amp was the connections on the back. Post/Pre eq / compression and Balanced DI out.. Effects loop hasn't been used but bonus perhaps.. That sounds like a sweet rig 3 Balanced DI !!!

 

[Dave Neal]

So would a guitar player's amp also be replaceable with a monitor mix and FOH mix? My amp and other gear is part of my sound would I let that go and give my sound away to a FOH that will eq to a generic tone.. no chance. I see less need in a major huge bass amp wattage but I certainly want a rig behind me, gig size dependent. Playing the bass includes playing the amp.

 

[sanwin17]

Well, I've been using smaller stuff for years now. I keep Earbuds with me. The last gig I played, I used the Eden "stompbox" pre-amp, and the earbuds. BUT! --The drummer used an acoustic kit, and the keyboards right behind me had a roland Combo. It all bled right through...I ended up having to use the trust SWR Super Redhead so that I could hear. Too bad, because the sound was really good! It all worked...so, while we bass players don't have to "pump the meadow" anymore, we do have to be ready for anything!

SWR Super Redhead Such a great amp

 

[bassexplorer]

There is no sensation I hate more than not feeling my bollocks shiver when I play my low end, and being unable to do anything about it.
Conclusion:
If you are not 100% sure what kind of gear is going to power your bassguitar out there, dont go out unarmed.
Call that whatever fancy word you want.
Any word begining with OB is for pussies anyway.

 

[Jari vanlaere]

In my opinion FOH is often just not good enough.
the problem being, you're dependent on the soundengineer(s) behind the PA
I'm not saying they're bad, but you do get their interpretation of what your music should sound like.

And, ok 9/10 of us are playing a fairly small venues, SE from the venue, multiple linked shows, a crowd that's basicly tonedeaf,... and often we should be happy we're getting paid that evening.
so PA /FOH will suffice even if we might cringe on the inside.

However 1 of my bands is all about soundscaping... months, if not years, of trying to get the sound(s), effects, choice of amps, ampvolumes,... juuuuuuust right.
I play (in that band only) on 3 amps over 4 cabs with a custom 2m long pedalboard... the guitarist: 4amps, 3 pedalboards + one more for voice-FX ,... you get the point.
and then.... in walks the PA-guy, who has never seen/heard us, barely read the tech. rider, seems way to swagger about the whole thing,... and as he puts in some of those free yellow earplugs, I die a little...

PA/FOH it's nice it's there, but it can't (and shouldn't) replace personal gear.
because however good the system (and SE) is, it will never be exactly what YOU want, need or expect it to be.

 

[Rocky55]

definitely not obsolete for me. I run in ear monitors and mic my cab so I get the tone from my amp.

^^^ This!
As both a bass player (40 years) and soundman (20+ years), I don't understand sending a "post" signal from bass amp. The tone shaping you do on a bass amp is for the cab it is powering. The cab is voiced a certain way and has limited frequency response. Decent p.a. systems can be (should be) somewhat flat from approx. 40Hz-16kHz, but often has subs up 5-15db louder than tops. That means that frequencies up to the crossover point (usually 80-100Hz) can be quite a bit louder. If you boost the low end on your amp, this translates in additional low end in an already bass heavy FOH system. See where I'm going? ---> mud!

If a bass player really wants me to use the DI out of his amp, I will try it but suggest he sends me a "pre" signal. If there is buzz, the ground lift switch rarely fixes it. In those cases, I will use a JDI and it usually takes care of the buzz. If the bass player has a great tone or uses effects, I will put a mic in front of his amp and also us a DI (which will usually go lower than the mic'd cab). Mic'ing the cab is the ONLY way to get your tone to FOH, unless you are using an amp simulator (Axe, Kemper, Helix, etc.). Then again, many use a bass amp or studio monitors (not much low end) while programming at home, which translates in way too much low end being sent to FOH. I had a similar problem and recently acquired a Fearless F112, which is pretty flat, to program my AX8. I haven't had a chance to get back at updating my settings, but I'm sure my patches will sound 100% better than they previously did.

Bottom line, IMO, the only way to get your tone to FOH is to throw a mic in front of your rig (or use modelers).

 

[sanwin17]

The trick is to turn up so loud that you overpower the FOH.

 

[JW56789]

It all depends where and what the stage setup / FOH situation is.

IF you're fortunate to have proper FOH, monitors, IEM's, probably a bass amp is going to make more trouble than it solves, in terms of presenting the whole band to the room or hall.

On the other hand, for lots of guys playing Shorty's Longest Pier, the Do Drop Inn, or the local Eagles lodge with a vocals-only Bingo-Caller PA, I wouldn't sell the Redhead just yet . . . . . .

 

[BergerHead]

You haul tons-amateurs (and pros) will come in age and hopefully find out that you're the bass, no matter what axe or amp, it's you sounding, not the gear ... for me it became kinda Zen just to purr and pour out my tone, the GAS & NGD are history.

 

[Jerry Kelly]

When I played full time ( approx 200 gigs a year) I didn't even use an amp on stage. I went into a preamp, sent a signal to FOH, and my amp send went into an Shure in ear wireless. I used custom in ears, has my bass in one channel, and had the FOH monitor mix in the other, and blended the two. I had zero stage volume, and sound guys loved me for it. No matter where I moved on stage, what I heard stayed the same. My gear consisted of my bass, a 6 space rack, amp stand, and cable/accessory box.

 

[Dricoman]

Bass amps are not simply about convenience and/or practicality (or the lack thereof) for many of us.

I simply enjoy hearing myself through speakers. When I can, I will bring an amp. If I can get away with it, I'll bring an Ampeg SVT. The sound of that heavy beast makes me smile.

They absolutely will be less common in a decade or so. We'll probably all have wireless basses with transmitters you can't see that send a signal directly to the computer used to run sound (that is the size of a pack of gum). Every audience member will be wearing headphones (tiny earbuds) that allow them to control the volume of their live band. Take out your earbuds and all you will hear are people talking and the sound of sticks hitting electronic drums pads. Your average bar will sound like a library until you put in earbuds.

So, not yet... but it's coming.

 

[John Eland]

If this is the way things are going, many seem to think so here! just put a shaging CD on then! I have been in positions where the sound guy made me sound poopie, not just me but the whole band cause they didn't know what they were doing, I'll control my sound thank you if you don't mind!

 

[Dricoman]

I like it! Sounds like a episode of Black Mirror, futuristic but possible it can happen in the near future.

 

[BergerHead]

... until you put in earbuds.

So, not yet... but it's coming.

I'd go on further: everyone will have a chip in the head, listening music, phoning, pay bills & computing with projected keyboard and mice; even looking movies inside your head, but this costs an extra ...