Are cheap bass expectations too high?

[jmattbassplaya]

A bit lost in this thread is that basses just became more expensive. I'm convinced of it, and I think it happened in the last 12-18 months.

A USA-built mass-produced instrument with, let's say, a "premium finish-out" like nice electronics and a preamp, used to be $1500 - $1800. Now I see the same basses at $2100 - $2400. USA Ernie Ball basses and higher end Fenders are examples.

I guess prices only move in one direction generally, but it feels very much like this happened all at once.

I have noticed that as well.

I’m a bit curious as to what the new Fender Pro2 series is all about. The pessimist in me thinks it’s Fender’s attempt to capture more margin similar to what EBMM has done with their increase in StingRay prices. The optimist hopes they’re just switching the electronics out and offering tort guards without any price increase.

 

[barclaybass]

Yeah, but a little thing called "Inflation" is at work here, too. To say "a dollar doesn't buy what it used to, these days" is a massive understatement. In 1980, I rode a brand new Harley Davidson FXRS Low rider out the dealer's door for $5,200. And, it was a fairly expensive Harley, too; not much cheaper than an Electra Glide. Today? A 2020 Low Rider will set you back at least $15,000. More, if you want dual front discs, and/or a color other than black... We haven't reached the German Weimar Republic's plight of the late '20s/early '30s - when a single egg cost a couple of billion Reichsmarks, and it was actually cheaper to burn the money than it was to buy coal - yet; but...??

Yeah dude, but $5200 in 1980 dollars is equivalent to $17,422 today!

 

[Funky Phantom]

Yeah, but a little thing called "Inflation" is at work here, too. To say "a dollar doesn't buy what it used to, these days" is a massive understatement. In 1980, I rode a brand new Harley Davidson FXRS Low rider out the dealer's door for $5,200. And, it was a fairly expensive Harley, too; not much cheaper than an Electra Glide. Today? A 2020 Low Rider will set you back at least $15,000. More, if you want dual front discs, and/or a color other than black... We haven't reached the German Weimar Republic's plight of the late '20s/early '30s - when a single egg cost a couple of billion Reichsmarks, and it was actually cheaper to burn the money than it was to buy coal - yet; but...??

I’m not much of a history buff, but, a couple of billion for an egg! The Germans seem to
have a pretty good handle on economics, so I’m sure that a few years later things
worked out for them pretty well.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Although cheap basses have increased in quality,the weakest link is often the electronics.
Which can be replaced with some effort.

 

[Dilver]

I just fixed up a 2002 MIM Fender Jazz Deluxe, that I found on Facebook Marketplace for $25.00. Even after replacing a bunch of stuff, it still only cost me less than $100. Did I have high expectations? Quite the opposite... I had very low expectations and it was more like a challenge to see just how good I can get it to play and sound (now it’s actually pretty awesome).

When it was new, I’m sure it cost probably around $400-600. Is that considered inexpensive? Relatively speaking, I’d say, yes. What I find is that inexpensive guitars and basses lack the hand labor of the more expensive instruments and cut costs by using cheaper hardware and electronics. All of which can be rectified, if you know what to do, have the proper tools and skills and are willing to put in the time. If we’re just talking about off the rack, cheap instruments and expecting them to lay/sound good without doing anything to them, that’s probably going to be disappointing.

 

[Ryan X Decent]

When I bought my first bass back in '98, I think I paid around $500 for it, which was a lot for me as a teenager with a part-time job. The bass was alright, but it definitely had some issues. Nowadays, the basses I can buy for $500 blow that bass out of the water. And the basses I can buy for the inflation adjusted equivalent of $500 in 1998 dollars are dang near flawless.

 

[brother21]

Competition in bass manufacturing has increased quality while lowering price which is good. The $3300 bass is like a boat anchor and good luck selling it. Then what happens when you put a ding in it?

 

[Maartenaerts]

i think this is obvious...Squier Affinity with upgraded bridge and tuners vs EKO that was never playable tbh...

 

[Eilif]

And are we applying standards of what we got for $1200 twenty years ago to what we're paying $1200 today. (Just picking a price point for an example. $1200 in 2000 is about $1800 today)

Of course we aren't applying the same standards and we shouldn't. Standards for instruments have gone up. Inflation has happened ( $1200 in 2000 is $1800 today). Two examples:

1)In 2000 a MIM Fender P was $450 or so. it came in 3 colors (one fingerboard) and had generally weak pickups and just-ok hardware. Today a MIM Fender P is $700 (Just a smidge more than inflation) and you get more choices, better pickups and hardware and even a better looking logo.

2) Squire too. A $150-200 Squire in 2000 was a fairly mediocre instrument. Now you can get a better "Affinity" instrument for less (based on inflation), and for just a bit more than inflation you can buy a slew of Gig-ready instruments with solid hardware and pups for $399.

I almost don't think you can have "too high" expectations these days when it comes to instruments at any price point. Of course you have to temper your expectations based on price and a bass at any price point might end up needing a setup depending on what it's been exposed to in transit, on display, local weather, etc. but beyond that you should have high standards. If one bass company isn't delivering the goods, there are plenty of others that are trying for your dollar.

But the fact is that basses have gotten much better at all price points and if you're spending $300-400 (or even $200 in many cases) you should expect a bass that plays well, is intonatable, keeps a setup and tune, etc. That a bass like the TMB100 is available for $200 bucks is fantastic. What could you possibly have bought new for $135 in 2000 that would have come close?

With "name" companies like Ibanez, Yamaha, Squire, ESP etc putting out such great products, there's almost no reason to settle for mediocrity and if you've got 5-800 bucks no reason to settle for less than excellence.

 

[Rob Edmunds]

As technology advances, quality goes up and price / cost goes down. My first 4 function calculator cost ~$60 (?) 45 years ago.

Riis

My first calculator (HP-45) cost $395 (and I was driving a $600 Mercedes!) in 1975. And it added and subtracted, which my slide rule couldn't do!

 

[Doug P]

I’ve never bought a Squire or a bass in that lower price range. But many people on TB must use this “price range” of bass as so many have a lot of knowledge about the range of basses from Squire to MIA , using Fender brand.
What you can’t see is the difference...... right ?
How many pc’s of wood is the body made of ? ( I saw one without finish that must be 10 layers ). The neck. Wood, how much room to adjust neck, pick-up’s, then medal make up of the parts. All of this vs top of the line. Yea, price difference. Do the less expensive basses do the job?
Most will I guess. Watch a u-tube clip on the Fender Custom Shop and the detail of those basses.
It comes down to ( I guess ) how “you” are built. Some have more $$ than others. What do you consider “cheap” is a main thing here too. Ask yourself, if money was not an issue would you be driving a Honda Accord or...... Custom Shop or Squire, etc...... you might say yes I don’t care.... trust me that will change for I bet 90% of the people reading this if they won the lotto. Remember $$ is no issue.
We have all bought something and maybe say... this one is not as nice / good as the last one....
Do the people that say “any bass over .....” is too much. Paying for name etc. Do you play “out” or just at home. poopie I could play almost anything just at home. But when you are getting paid to do your part, how much are you willing to pay to be serious and have good and dependable bass, not just the most $$ gear ? All of the venues and bands I have shared the bill with I can honesty say I never see the “less expensive “ stuff out there.
All said .....there is a reason said one basses cost less. How much are you willing to spend or can spend for your fun or to do your job on stage ??? I keep re-reading this , how much did I get off subject. ???! Oh well. Have a nice day. Just keep playing and having fun.
Again, I have to stop saying the “S” word. “They” changed it to poopie again.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

My first calculator (HP-45) cost $395 (and I was driving a $600 Mercedes!) in 1975. And it added and subtracted, which my slide rule couldn't do!

My calculator in high school was an HP-11C and someone stole it. I hope they used the opportunity to learn RPN, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[Frank Vozak]

Good question. In general, I think you get more instrument now than you did even 10 years ago at any price point. I also don’t think $1,200 today is any less expensive of a price point today than it was 10 years ago. I get it; we want to factor in inflation, but $1,200 is still a nice chunk of change and I would expect a quality instrument.

 

[Frank Vozak]

I am amazed by the availability of good quality at every price point (and ther4 are dogs at everybprice point too)

Good question. In general, I think you get more instrument now than you did even 10 years ago at any price point. I also don’t think $1,200 today is any less expensive of a price point today than it was 10 years ago. I get it; we want to factor in inflation, but $1,200 is still a nice chunk of change and I would expect a quality instrument.

 

[Frank Vozak]

I am really impressed with the number of quality at even low end price points (like Glarry's $75 to $100 P Bass, or Higher end Squier line or even the current production run of Squier's Precision Mini to the 3 price point range
of Fe to Fender Custom Shop to the many hand crafted basses on the market today. What is troublesome is that many low end basses depend of production in Japan, China, Korea and Indonesia---this of all the American jobs that are lost due to this situation. Without China and even more Indonesia Squier would probably have a rough time producing affordable instruments. The last $75 bass I saw before Glarry was a no name Bass in the window of my local small town Woolworths in 1966 with a neck like a baseball bat. When I started playing in the 60's , all I ever saw were four string basses (except for Fenders six string bass and Hagstrom's eight string bass) a very limited number of bass amps from Fender, Ampeg, Marshall, Gibson, Traynor, Sunn, Kustom,Vox, and Peavy and most were large high power amplifiers (I ended up with an Ampeg Portaflex two cabinet amp because the Fender Bassman's cabinet was too large to fit into either my my family's cars Now we have a plethora of good to de3cent amps at every price point from $45 to $4500 and more. But again what used to be an American amp industry has become a heavily third world export market.

 

[David1957]

And are we applying standards of what we got for $1200 twenty years ago to what we're paying $1200 today. (Just picking a price point for an example. $1200 in 2000 is about $1800 today)

I started in the early 70’s with a no-name semi-hollow body that was not good. Then a 68 fretless P, then a new Gibson RD artist that, in some ways, was not as good at $1000 as a $500 bass now. Then a 63 Jazz. Now a MVP-5. Over time, the USA fenders were better, the Gibson was worse, and the Mpv is as good as anything I’ve ever picked up.

 

[wraub]

I only have one "cheap" bass, and it's so good it raised my expectations for what can be done for "cheap".

 

[Whitebeard]

With the advent of CNC machinery the general quality, precision and continuity (from one bass to the 30th bass produced in the same run/batch) is as close to perfect as anyone would want/need. As long as the CNC program and the CNC machine are the same it doesn't matter where/what country the parts are being built at. Woods might vary and the components/hardware & electronics may well differ but if all the pieces are of the same quality the instrument/s will be the same. I don't remember exactly how much I paid for my new 1964 Jazz Bass but I think it was about $300.00 with the G&G case. According to the Dollar Times website -
Adjusted for inflation, $300.00 in 1964 is equal to $2,494.89 in 2020. Annual inflation over this period was 3.85%. Fender's 2020 suggested retail price for a replica of that instrument is $1,999.99 which includes a G&G case. Have fun!

 

[Frank Vozak]

Price comparisons--1967 MIA Mustang Bass, 1967 MIA Gibson EB-O Flat wounds sounded terrible, round wound replacement cut my fingers up but Guild Tapewound were great-----Problem was I spent close to $100 on replacement strings. For $350 ,1967 MIA Jazz Bass and $450 for Gibson Thunderbird. All on the floor models with hard shell cases. Of course we are talking in the $1500 to $3000 in today's dollars All four were well built great bases. I think a major issue with Chinese and Indonesian basses is the use of cheaper types of wood
easily available in Asia and using wet/not carefully dryed wood vs higher grade wood that has been kiln dried and then aged. Wet wood means that your bass will have to age into itself for a year or two and you will have to know how to do a set up OR hire somebody a few times until the wood ages in place and perhaps you will have to deal with fret buzz or intonation issues or loss of a proper setup with ambient temperature changes. And your bass may arrive with a need for a new setup if you use certain low price mail order places My Squire Affinity PJK bass from GC required a set up and ,my Precision mini came with all set up done.I bought my Squier SS Jaguar and my Fender Accoustic CB 60 bass lost their set up with cold weather in the ride home from the little Guitar store and I ended up spending real money for both of them to set up again. Now both stay perfectly in tune with great playability . Except for the Mini everything cost $300 each And for my style of playing and the size of my arms and hand the Mini is the best bass I ever had. In the 60's I played with a felt pick but could sight read treble, alto and bass clefs and had excellent rythm-------now I cannot relearn to read music but I finger pick and understand how to use the Nashville Numbering System and understand vastly more
about bass guitar music theory thanks to Fender Play, \this list serve, and the internet. It also helps that I play with much better guitarists than when I was younger. It really is hard to look back and try to make an all things better comparison with then and now: except I loved playing bass then and I loved playing bass now.

 

[Roger W]

I’m not much of a history buff, but, a couple of billion for an egg! The Germans seem to
have a pretty good handle on economics, so I’m sure that a few years later things
worked out for them pretty well.

Well, there was this thing called World War II. . .