Are cheap bass expectations too high?

[MultiScaleMale]

I won't mention specifics because I don't want to call out individuals, but there have been some posts over QC issues over the past few weeks that I have to give a sideways glance. A $300 bass leaves the factory for well under $100 - and the factory makes a profit. That means cost cutting in every element of the instrument and as little labor involved as possible.

 

[M.R. Ogle]

Substitute the word "CAR" for bass. I remember when Corvettes were around $7000 bucks. That's not even a Yugo now. No logical (fair) comparison.

 

[mdogs]

Agreed... however, they are quite spectacular/fantastic at their price point.

When you put it that way, I would say that they still aren’t spectacular, they are what you should expect at that price point which in my world means they are average.

 

[Love_Bass]

Everything in this world is junk until people assign a value to it. Example would be a Faberge Egg. Its ugly and looks like something a 99cent store would sell during Easter. Its value went into the millions.
What does a manufacturer pay to produce a $1900
Bass guitar?
So stop praising and bragging about buying these top dollar Tubas with strings..your raising the price by assigning to much value..no matter how good it feels and sounds its just not worth the asking price.
If you want to build the dreams and wallets of millionaires go for it..just save enough to pay your rent.

 

[b_carville]

It's a great time for cheap basses.
My 1st bass cost me $89.95 in 1966. Was a POS branded Kingston. Nowdays you can get a Glarry that is a much better instrument for that much.
I'm astounded at how many really good cheap basses there are now. I have a Wolf JB4 that was $399 new.It can compare with most $1200 basses in build & tone. Most players think it is a $1200 bass.Korean made. I also have a Swing Mojo bass that cost me $200. It's really well made for a budget bass & is solid sounding. Made in Indonesia. Other brands I've been impressed with are Bacchus(not dirt cheap but major bang for your $$$),Vintage,Harley Benton & Cort. I like the Fender Player series too.
I've owned a lot of basses. A lot of the 70's & 80's Fenders were crap.You don't see that much nowadays.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Everything in this world is junk until people assign a value to it. Example would be a Faberge Egg. Its ugly and looks like something a 99cent store would sell during Easter. Its value went into the millions.
What does a manufacturer pay to produce a $1900
Bass guitar?
So stop praising and bragging about buying these top dollar Tubas with strings..your raising the price by assigning to much value..no matter how good it feels and sounds its just not worth the asking price.
If you want to build the dreams and wallets of millionaires go for it..just save enough to pay your rent.

Yeah.... Funny enough, the same people are selling the cheap basses.

 

[mdogs]

Everything in this world is junk until people assign a value to it. Example would be a Faberge Egg. Its ugly and looks like something a 99cent store would sell during Easter. Its value went into the millions.
What does a manufacturer pay to produce a $1900
Bass guitar?
So stop praising and bragging about buying these top dollar Tubas with strings..your raising the price by assigning to much value..no matter how good it feels and sounds its just not worth the asking price.
If you want to build the dreams and wallets of millionaires go for it..just save enough to pay your rent.

with that way of thinking, everything would be free.

 

[coyote1]

And are we applying standards of what we got for $1200 twenty years ago to what we're paying $1200 today. (Just picking a price point for an example. $1200 in 2000 is about $1800 today)

Thought you said ‘cheap’ lol

I recently played a 5-string Jackson Spectra Bass. $350 new, and in feel and sound it outperforms many $1200 basses.

Given modern factory production techniques, I think we have a right to expect great performance from even inexpensive instruments.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Thought you said ‘cheap’ lol

I recently played a 5-string Jackson Spectra Bass. $350 new, and in feel and sound it outperforms many $1200 basses.

Given modern factory production techniques, I think we have a right to expect great performance from even inexpensive instruments.

Yes, two different sentences. But I can't edit it for clarity, so waiting for the top posts to update in a bit and hopefully this just rolls off into oblivion.

 

[two fingers]

As technology advances, quality goes up and price / cost goes down. My first 4 function calculator cost ~$60 (?) 45 years ago.

Riis

I remember in nineteen seventy something getting my butt whipped for playing with my dad's four function calculator. He told me it was one if the most expensive things in our house. Now you can one for a dollar with a watch band that dies ten times as much from a gumball machine.

As for basses, they're just like cars. Sure, there's a cool factor to vintage stuff. But, quality wise, construction, and fit/finish are far and away better these days.

Why anyone would want an antique piano I'll never know. I sold pianos for years. A $3,000 Chinese "baby grand" is exponentially better than a 100 (or even 75) year old Steinway in every measurable way. No contest. Just like guitars and basses, the 70s were hit or miss. So a 70s Steinway might be a heep of garbage.

I've played hundreds of vintage basses. Only one ever called out to me. (It was a refinished "63 P bass at Carter Vintage in Nashville that looked like it had been dragged behind a truck down a gravel road.) Give me a new bass every time. And, for $1,200 it should be fantastic.

 

[barclaybass]

And so it goes.....
My brother bought the very first BetaMax when they came out in the early 70s.... It was the size of a samsonite suitcase and cost $1100.00.
10 years later you could buy a VHS for $25.
10 years ago my 40 inch non-smart flat screen was $600.00. Now a similar model is $125.
Today's "cheap" basses are MILES better than the junk I remember.
They are what they are...but
I would have KILLED for a Squier back when a Teisco was it's equivalent.

Hell.......15 to 20 yrs ago a 4k High definition 55 inch Flat screen Television like I have in my bedroom and paid under $300 for (I dont think 4k even existed then and the tv would of been plasma with poor viewing angles) would of cost $15,000 to $20,000!!!!!!
That's INSANE
But as stuff like that has gone down in price, consider that I bought a brand spanking new Gibson Thunderbird bass in the mid 90s for $750 at Loria music in Rahway NJ.
Now they are pushing $2000 for a new Tbird!
No wonder people buy imports, the construction methods are so good now, you tell me what the difference is between the Epiphone Thunderbird (the thru neck ones) and the Gibson?

 

[barclaybass]

The improvement of quality of the lower-priced gear has certainly brought more bassists into the fold. You can actually get satisfying sound and playability for about $600, and in the hands of a real pro, it can be hard to guess the price of a $600 bass with upgraded electronics and proper set-up, without looking at the headstock. Expectations too high? Nah! For most bassists, it's not the "cheap" bass holding them back. And because the barrier to entry is now lower, there are a lot more bassists, many of whom are giving their "cheap" basses a bad reputation, not from the lack of quality of the cheap bass, but from the lack of quality of the player. That player that shows up for the pit show and can't friggin' read the book? That guy that sits in for the combo gig who can't do "Misty" without tuning down? That guy that needs two weeks to learn a set and extra rehearsals, and that's only if they're not working full time at the ice cream shop? The guy who can't transpose a country or folk or gospel song at the request of the singer and do it with a smile? The guy who can't do the previous even with the Nashville numbers scribbled on a napkin, passed to him by a bandmate who took pity? The guy who can't read a lead sheet they have never seen before? The guy who doesn't know the first thing about EQ and gets a sh*tty sound? The guy who doesn't have the technique to play four quarter notes in a row with consistent articulation and sustain? The guy who doesn't know they're not playing with the drummer? The guy whose technique flails around so much that there's just as much noise as there is tone? The guy who tunes to A440 and cant' hear that it's out of tune with the violinist who tuned to A442? Yeah, all these people showed up with their "cheap" basses because the barrier to entry is lower, regardless of the workmanship of modern cheap basses. It doesn't cost much to be a bass player, nowadays. So now there are more of them, but they all show up on their inexpensive basses, and the additional wannabes make today's $600 basses sound worse than they really are. If someone is un-satisfied with their "cheap" bass, they should first look to themselves first, to see if they're the ones that sound "cheap" before thinking it's the bass. The OP should instead be asking if our expectations of the player are not high enough . . . but that's not good for the music merchandise business.

Um, bitter much?

 

[GIBrat51]

And are we applying standards of what we got for $1200 twenty years ago to what we're paying $1200 today. (Just picking a price point for an example. $1200 in 2000 is about $1800 today)

Well, with the caveat that even today, IMO $1200 is pretty much "mid-priced" territory? I'd have to say... it depends on what you mean by "Cheap". To me, "Cheap" means something that didn't cost much at all - and functions badly. It's poorly made, out of barely suitable materials. It means that you got exactly what you paid for. And, sad to say, there are a goodly number of "cheap" basses still to be had... OTOH, these days a bass that's "inexpensive" is, quite often, very different. A Sire bass is a very good example. Doesn't cost a whole lot, but it's very well made, and plays as well as a bass that costs a lot more. I think that, as others have said, "inexpensive" instruments have gotten much better over the last decade or so; and, IMO have become a category of their own. Do "we" expect too much of "inexpensive" basses? I can't speak for "we"; I can only speak for myself. I always expect to get what I paid for; whether I'm buying a bass that costs an arm and a leg, or one that's "inexpensive". So, if it turns out to be better than I expected it to be? That's great. As for "Cheap" basses? I think I've been around long enough to know "Cheap" when I see it; I've never had the need - much less the desire - to fish in that pond...

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I was expecting "I bought this Indonesian bass and it does not even compare to my MIA". This is really about price and your $1200 is not cheap (or maybe I'm just a hood rat).

A better question is about QC past & present in identical models.

 

[phorm]

And because the barrier to entry is now lower, there are a lot more bassists, many of whom are giving their "cheap" basses a bad reputation, not from the lack of quality of the cheap bass, but from the lack of quality of the player. That player that shows up for the pit show and can't friggin' read the book? That guy that sits in for the combo gig who can't do "Misty" without tuning down? That guy that needs two weeks to learn a set and extra rehearsals, and that's only if they're not working full time at the ice cream shop? The guy who can't transpose a country or folk or gospel song at the request of the singer and do it with a smile? The guy who can't do the previous even with the Nashville numbers scribbled on a napkin, passed to him by a bandmate who took pity? The guy who can't read a lead sheet they have never seen before?

Interesting story. David Bowie wanted Stevie Ray Vaughn to play on his album. When they got Stevie over to record the songs they discovered he couldn't read music. Yet who was the musician that was most memorable on that Bowie album? It was Stevie. He was only one of the greatest blues guitarists of all time!
I played with a guitarist who loved music but struggled with timing. It is something he will never totally get a handle on. Should I call him a "cheap" guitarist because his timing was off once in awhile? I really enjoyed playing with him, because he loved music, even though I had to get him back into the pocket at times.
Your comments were mean spirited and arrogant. Denigrating a guy who is working full time at a "degrading" job in your estimation at an ice cream shop, and doesn't have all the time in the world to practice. Sheesh!
What about the guys who just like to play 3 chord johnny songs for family and friends, and maybe at the local pub or bar? Do we consider them cheap musicians too?
I guess I will never know what it is like to sit in an ivory tower and look down at the unwashed masses and find comfort in my unsurpassed virtuousity and bask in the glow of my own brilliance.

Signed,
An unwashed, cheap musician!

 

[ILIA]

Um, bitter much?

No, not at all. Perhaps, if bitterness is the main thing that you saw in my post, perhaps, bitterness is at the forefront of your psyche.

 

[Huw Phillips]

I believe that the squires are a great instrument for the price, the weight is good the parts etc, the MIM instruments tend to be heavy similar parts not really that different IMO. When you step up to the US made fenders the difference is applicable, cheap and $1200 don’t really go together for me

 

[jbhaugh]

Thanks, BH. Those of us of a certain age and experience . . . can see just how far it's all come. Amps today vs. the 70's are like going from a P51 to an F22. It's been amazing to watch.

I started playing bass in 1999, and even the difference between then and now for bass gear is huge. I can't imagine what it must've been like in the '70s to scrape together money for an instrument or amp and then get something that we wouldn't even consider for a second today.

 

[AdeptBerry]

https://www.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_mb_4_sb_deluxe_series.htm

21 frets and a single humbucker is all i could ask for this ernieball music man look a like. What are some other cheap brands and where to buy them?

 

[GIBrat51]

Hell.......15 to 20 yrs ago a 4k High definition 55 inch Flat screen Television like I have in my bedroom and paid under $300 for (I dont think 4k even existed then and the tv would of been plasma with poor viewing angles) would of cost $15,000 to $20,000!!!!!!
That's INSANE
But as stuff like that has gone down in price, consider that I bought a brand spanking new Gibson Thunderbird bass in the mid 90s for $750 at Loria music in Rahway NJ.
Now they are pushing $2000 for a new Tbird!
No wonder people buy imports, the construction methods are so good now, you tell me what the difference is between the Epiphone Thunderbird (the thru neck ones) and the Gibson?

Well, that's a really easy one;

This is a left handed Gibson Thunderbird. And, this is a left handed Epiphone Thunderbird. Don't know about you, but... the difference is pretty obvious to me...