Are cheap bass expectations too high?

[ILIA]

Interesting story. David Bowie wanted Stevie Ray Vaughn to play on his album. When they got Stevie over to record the songs they discovered he couldn't read music. Yet who was the musician that was most memorable on that Bowie album? It was Stevie. He was only one of the greatest blues guitarists of all time!
I played with a guitarist who loved music but struggled with timing. It is something he will never totally get a handle on. Should I call him a "cheap" guitarist because his timing was off once in awhile? I really enjoyed playing with him, because he loved music, even though I had to get him back into the pocket at times.
Your comments were mean spirited and arrogant. Denigrating a guy who is working full time at a "degrading" job in your estimation at an ice cream shop, and doesn't have all the time in the world to practice. Sheesh!
What about the guys who just like to play 3 chord johnny songs for family and friends, and maybe at the local pub or bar? Do we consider them cheap musicians too?
I guess I will never know what it is like to sit in an ivory tower and look down at the unwashed masses and find comfort in my unsurpassed virtuousity and bask in the glow of my own brilliance.

Signed,
An unwashed, cheap musician!

Hardly. I'm not a virtuoso nor do I hold an exalted position, but I practice for that goal, so at the very least I'm not a burden to those who I play with, regardless of what price tag came with the bass (which by the way is the topic of this thread that the OP started--I brought up the player side of bass playing because gear has been inextricably combined with player ability and often confuses the "value" of an inexpensive bass). Did I say "cheap musician?" No I did not. YOU said "cheap musician." Every musician can become good at their instrument, but they have to commit time to practice and sense to learn, so they can play it properly (regardless of the price tag of the instrument in their hand). When that happens, amazing music happens with a "cheap" bass and the "cheap" bass doesn't sound so "cheap" anymore.

When one gets to the celebrity status of Stevie Ray Vaughn, you can do whatever the heck you want to, including making producers, session musicians, engineers, arrangers accommodate the shortcomings of the celebrity, in order to leverage and integrate the unique and compelling value of a particular artist (like Steve Ray Vaughn) into a recording project. But these outlier musicians can't be generalized into norms for everyone else who isn't Steve Ray Vaughn. I'm sure Stevie Ray Vaughn practiced a lot (regardless of what gear he used). He focused on a narrow niche where he excelled and pretty much cornered the market, but to say that his experience translates to a norm for musicians in general? That's quite a leap that you have made.

Signed,
Also a cheap, unwashed musician because the more I practice and learn, the more I know I have a long ways to go

 

[ab2112]

That was my experience with a fretless Squier Jazz I bought earlier this year. It was great in the store, but once I took it home, issues with the fingerboard became apparent, and could not play what I was used to playing on it. My $99 Glarry fretless P-bass has a much better fingerboard.

Thanks Doc that's good to know. I like keeping a cheapie in the stable and have heard good things about these too.

 

[pcake]

Well, with the caveat that even today, IMO $1200 is pretty much "mid-priced" territory? I'd have to say... it depends on what you mean by "Cheap". To me, "Cheap" means something that didn't cost much at all - and functions badly. It's poorly made, out of barely suitable materials. It means that you got exactly what you paid for. And, sad to say, there are a goodly number of "cheap" basses still to be had... OTOH, these days a bass that's "inexpensive" is, quite often, very different. A Sire bass is a very good example. Doesn't cost a whole lot, but it's very well made, and plays as well as a bass that costs a lot more. I think that, as others have said, "inexpensive" instruments have gotten much better over the last decade or so; and, IMO have become a category of their own. Do "we" expect too much of "inexpensive" basses? I can't speak for "we"; I can only speak for myself. I always expect to get what I paid for; whether I'm buying a bass that costs an arm and a leg, or one that's "inexpensive". So, if it turns out to be better than I expected it to be? That's great. As for "Cheap" basses? I think I've been around long enough to know "Cheap" when I see it; I've never had the need - much less the desire - to fish in that pond...

to me, a $300 or under bass is a cheap bass, and the only ones i've kept are good basses - they just didn't cost much.

I played with a guitarist who loved music but struggled with timing. It is something he will never totally get a handle on. Should I call him a "cheap" guitarist because his timing was off once in awhile? I really enjoyed playing with him, because he loved music, even though I had to get him back into the pocket at times.

whether you should call him a cheap guitarist depends on how much you paid for him

 

[jbhaugh]

That's why it is so important to know how to do the basics.

I have come across quite a few players in my journey that were uncomfortable doing something simple like - adjust intonation. Most of the time, low end basses need the Basics, not major surgery, meaning - truss rod, fret ends, string height, intonation. I'm not a handy person at all - as far as tearing my house apart - but even I do all of those comfortably because it is pretty simple.

Heck, seems like every time I go into a music store there are grown adults bringing in instruments for re-stringing.

 

[phorm]

to me, a $300 or under bass is a cheap bass, and the only ones i've kept are good basses - they just didn't cost much.



whether you should call him a cheap guitarist depends on how much you paid for him

Slightly more than the used Bronco bass I just picked up at at my local music store!

 

[Volker Kirstein]

TANGENT -

... my cheapest bass, my red bronco which i bought new with a discount for $129, actually sounds good to me, feels great, and is one of my main players. ...

Slightly more than the used Bronco bass I just picked up at at my local music store!

Broncos rule!

- TANGENT ENDS

 

[phorm]

Broncos rule!

I love this little Bronco bass. I think I might switch out the pickup with a humbucker, but even stock it sounds really good, just a little hum. Took it to practice a few weeks ago, and it was up for the challenge. So easy to play.

 

[brianrost]

Can anyone remember what the original question was? Something about bass players being too high when buying cheap basses...

 

[nonohmic]

I created a post two days ago about some quality issues on my TMB30 I received last week. While I'm not complaining about the bass as it ultimately does work for me and is imo a very good bass regardless of how inexpensive it is, it had quality issues that well, took me a little by surprise as to how they could have been missed during quality control. The most obvious being the jazz bass pickup that wasn't screwed on correctly and completely raised on one end pressed up against the strings. Some of the pickguard screws weren't put in all the way. Not big issues and thankfully none were of the type that I couldn't address and fix on my own.
Expecting to do a set up is part of buying any bass these days, I have absolutely no problem with that especially on a budget priced instrument. You may want to remove the neck and see what's going on in there, I noticed on my 4 string TMB30 that the neck wasn't quite straight creating string buzz when fretting on the first fret or two on any of the strings. The neck itself was straight, no raised frets from my inspection. What I did find was a pile of wood dust and splinters in the neck pocket that prevented the neck from being totally flush against the neck pocket. After brushing this off, the buzzing was eliminated, the bass now plays like a dream. Where did you find the glue residue? Was the bass made this year or an old stock?

I agree doing a setup is absolutely expected. Mostly I bought this to see if I wanted to try 30" E-C. But pretty much straight away I realized it wasn't for me. 18 mm string spacing is too tight too. I think it's 4 bangers here on out for me.

If I was more excited I'd take the neck off, look for dust etc. as you say, then maybe add a shim. I think with a little work it would be a player, I just don't want to do anything that would stop me from returning it.

Also the truss rod is pretty damn tight, which is prob the biggest QC issues. Glue around the nut, mostly.

 

[Maxdusty]

I agree doing a setup is absolutely expected. Mostly I bought this to see if I wanted to try 30" E-C. But pretty much straight away I realized it wasn't for me. 18 mm string spacing is too tight too. I think it's 4 bangers here on out for me.

If I was more excited I'd take the neck off, look for dust etc. as you say, then maybe add a shim. I think with a little work it would be a player, I just don't want to do anything that would stop me from returning it.

Also the truss rod is pretty damn tight, which is prob the biggest QC issues. Glue around the nut, mostly.

Makes sense. Yes, wouldn't risk voiding the return policy if you already know the bass isn't for you.
You know, I don't think I tested the truss rod on mine, the neck being straight and all I just assumed the truss rod was working.

 

[GIBrat51]

to me, a $300 or under bass is a cheap bass, and the only ones i've kept are good basses - they just didn't cost much.

Then, by my definition, your "good" $300 bass isn't Cheap, because it doesn't function badly. Your good $300 bass is... Inexpensive...

 

[Dr. Cheese]

As other people mentioned, technology like CNC and PLEK, make it cheaper to manufacture with tight tolerances. The fact that more instrument production takes place in lower income countries keeps prices down too. The result is that $1,200 or even $700 can buy a whole lot of bass.

 

[nilorius]

As other people mentioned, technology like CNC and PLEK, make it cheaper to manufacture with tight tolerances. The fact that more instrument production takes place in lower income countries keeps prices down too. The result is that $1,200 or even $700 can buy a whole lot of bass.

The most important question is - when ?

 

[Clark Westfield]

I’ll chime in:

I just liquidated s PRS Kestrel that was absolutely flawless for an $800 overseas bass.

I wish I bonded with it cause it was absolutely beautiful.

 

[phorm]

I agree with you 100% about practicing and being prepared. You should never let your band mates down.
As regards reading music, you mentioned in your original post about someone having to tune down to play Misty. Misty was written by the great Jazz pianist Erroll Garner, who was self taught and couldn't read music. But his skills were extraordinary as seen in his live performances:

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Good question. In general, I think you get more instrument now than you did even 10 years ago at any price point. I also don’t think $1,200 today is any less expensive of a price point today than it was 10 years ago. I get it; we want to factor in inflation, but $1,200 is still a nice chunk of change and I would expect a quality instrument.

The rate of inflation is not the same on all goods and service. Over the last 10 years, battling back from a serious recession, manufactures tried to hold price increases in check. My point is, using the last 10 years as an example about pricing is some what misleading.

Taking a longer term point of view, and to the point of the OP, my 1974 Rick that I paid $774 in 1974 dollars, the equivalent in 2020 dollars would be $4,500.

On a side bar, I was paying $19 dollars a set of GHS Bass Boomers back in 1974 dollars. In 2020 Dollar equivalent, $101 dollars a set.

While we don’t notice Inflation on a day to day basis, it’s very real and effects everybody. Make no mistake, it is a tax everybody pays on their earnings and savings, and there is no accountability.

 

[pcake]

Then, by my definition, your "good" $300 bass isn't Cheap, because it doesn't function badly. Your good $300 bass is... Inexpensive...

and by my definition, i have a good cheap bass - well, several, actually

it's all in our personal definitions, i guess

 

[Altitude]

A bit lost in this thread is that basses just became more expensive. I'm convinced of it, and I think it happened in the last 12-18 months.

A USA-built mass-produced instrument with, let's say, a "premium finish-out" like nice electronics and a preamp, used to be $1500 - $1800. Now I see the same basses at $2100 - $2400. USA Ernie Ball basses and higher end Fenders are examples.

I guess prices only move in one direction generally, but it feels very much like this happened all at once.

 

[GIBrat51]

A bit lost in this thread is that basses just became more expensive. I'm convinced of it, and I think it happened in the last 12-18 months.

A USA-built mass-produced instrument with, let's say, a "premium finish-out" like nice electronics and a preamp, used to be $1500 - $1800. Now I see the same basses at $2100 - $2400. USA Ernie Ball basses and higher end Fenders are examples.

I guess prices only move in one direction generally, but it feels very much like this happened all at once.

Yeah, but a little thing called "Inflation" is at work here, too. To say "a dollar doesn't buy what it used to, these days" is a massive understatement. In 1980, I rode a brand new Harley Davidson FXRS Low rider out the dealer's door for $5,200. And, it was a fairly expensive Harley, too; not much cheaper than an Electra Glide. Today? A 2020 Low Rider will set you back at least $15,000. More, if you want dual front discs, and/or a color other than black... We haven't reached the German Weimar Republic's plight of the late '20s/early '30s - when a single egg cost a couple of billion Reichsmarks, and it was actually cheaper to burn the money than it was to buy coal - yet; but...??

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

Inexpensive basses are now, on average, higher quality than they've ever been before, especially in the sub-$1000 range.

I think of my Epiphone Jack Casady bass, and my Hofner ignition violin bass, and my Hofner 500/1 CT basses.
Wonderful quality at low prices. It wasn't that way a long time ago. the low end priced instruments are much better in quality now. String price, thankfully have not gone up with inflation as other thing have done . I remember spending $21.00 a set for Hofner (Pyramid) flats in 1970! I bought my Hofner Super Beatle bass for $230.00 in 1970. Today it would be over ten times that.