Are cheap bass expectations too high?

[Steve-D]

These days, assuming NIB, I expect a <200 no-name to be almost perfect, and ready to play right out of the box. Because that's what I've been receiving. My last two newbies (€67 & €169 NIB, respectively) were pretty much "giggable" right out of the box.

Dunno what I would expect from a 1200 instrument, other than pristine perfection. That kind of money is not available in my world. If it is in yours, good for you.

My newest is the P-Mini bought new $149. Great little bass. For $1200 I would expect the Bass to pretty much play itself. I have 3 basses a rumble 25 and I still haven’t spent $ 1200!

 

[markymac]

My two cents..... I bought an Ibanez 375 blackberry burst a few years back. It's well built, looks stunning, and sounds just as good as my over £1200 instruments. It feels great to play as well. Far better all round than the more expensive Squiers I had. Just on sound feel and comfort I'd put it in the $800 range. But it cost £300. Incredible bargain.

 

[PeteCarlton]

As a comparison, take a look at a Trek mountain bike. For a certain line you might pay $599 for the basic bike and twice that for the higher limit in that line. Both will have the same frame, forks, and handle bars, but the shifters, brakes, and gears will be much better and more reliable on the expensive one.

Therefore, some folks will opt to get the cheapest bike (since the frames are the same) and add their own upgrade components later.

I'm wondering if basses are like that as well.

I'm wondering that too - my guitars/basses cost from £40 - £1700 ($55 - $2200) and the only thing they have in common is that I wanted to buy them and I enjoy playing them. Does anything else matter?

 

[Novarocker]

My older brother had a ~1975 Fender Jazz he purchased new for ~$400. That's ~$2000 today. The neck didn't fit the pocket. Electronic problems too.

I have an Ibanez TMB100 Talman I brought new for ~$200. It's flawless. Sounds and feels great. That $200 today is worth ~$ 40 in 1975. What unplayable bass could you buy for that back then?

It's a good time to be a bass player.

There's a lot of great answers in this thread, but this really puts it all into perspective. Thanks for mailing it out of the park.

 

[Maartenaerts]

To be honest, my first bass was a 60's semi-accoustic Egmond single cutaway. I loved it, it made sound even without it being plugged in my big table radio. Neanderthal stuff.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Good question. In general, I think you get more instrument now than you did even 10 years ago at any price point. I also don’t think $1,200 today is any less expensive of a price point today than it was 10 years ago. I get it; we want to factor in inflation, but $1,200 is still a nice chunk of change and I would expect a quality instrument.

Yeah, $1,200 isn't a cheap bass today, and was even less so 10 years ago.

 

[picker1974]

Anything over $500 to me is a lot of money. Personally, unless you are a collector or investor in vintage instruments, paying $1500, $3,000 or more on a U.S.A. made or custom shop guitar or bass is the equivalent to setting fire to a fistful of $100 bills. It’s because of many of the reasons already listed. Gibson for example has not caught up with the changes and their guitars reflect that which is part of the reason they are suffering. I’m personally not going to buy a $2000 Les Paul when a $900 LTD is quite frankly a better instrument at a fraction of the cost. It’s amazing how cheap you can get a gig worthy instrument for these days, especially used. My last bass purchase was a Sterling SUB series that I payed $175 for used and it is a superb playable instrument. In fact it has been my go to for over 2 years now and no issues. Tangent over, what was the original question?

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Anything over $500 to me is a lot of money. Personally, unless you are a collector or investor in vintage instruments, paying $1500, $3,000 or more on a U.S.A. made or custom shop guitar or bass is the equivalent to setting fire to a fistful of $100 bills.

I will disagree with this, but it's a common sentiment.

 

[ElectricBass72]

Anything over $500 to me is a lot of money. Personally, unless you are a collector or investor in vintage instruments, paying $1500, $3,000 or more on a U.S.A. made or custom shop guitar or bass is the equivalent to setting fire to a fistful of $100 bills. It’s because of many of the reasons already listed. Gibson for example has not caught up with the changes and their guitars reflect that which is part of the reason they are suffering. I’m personally not going to buy a $2000 Les Paul when a $900 LTD is quite frankly a better instrument at a fraction of the cost. It’s amazing how cheap you can get a gig worthy instrument for these days, especially used. My last bass purchase was a Sterling SUB series that I payed $175 for used and it is a superb playable instrument. In fact it has been my go to for over 2 years now and no issues. Tangent over, what was the original question?

Agree with most of this. The factories in Indonesia, Korea, China and Mexico have guitar/bass manufacturing down to an art. Most cheap guitars and basses sound good, stay in tune and are playable right out of the box, requiring only minor adjustments.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Agree with most of this. The factories in Indonesia, Korea, China and Mexico have guitar/bass manufacturing down to an art. Most cheap guitars and basses sound good, stay in tune and are playable right out of the box, requiring only minor adjustments.

Yep.

Been looking to thin the herd to make room for a new bass. I’ve been eyeing my PRS SE Custom as one to sell to obtain some funds. I played it for a couple hours the other day, and it honestly holds its own incredibly well to my US instruments. I think the only thing it lacks is better pups, but it is a fantastic instrument in every other way. Crazy it is a third of the price of my Gibson LP.

 

[Fairmont]

The improvement of quality of the lower-priced gear has certainly brought more bassists into the fold. You can actually get satisfying sound and playability for about $600, and in the hands of a real pro, it can be hard to guess the price of a $600 bass with upgraded electronics and proper set-up, without looking at the headstock. Expectations too high? Nah! For most bassists, it's not the "cheap" bass holding them back. And because the barrier to entry is now lower, there are a lot more bassists, many of whom are giving their "cheap" basses a bad reputation, not from the lack of quality of the cheap bass, but from the lack of quality of the player. That player that shows up for the pit show and can't friggin' read the book? That guy that sits in for the combo gig who can't do "Misty" without tuning down? That guy that needs two weeks to learn a set and extra rehearsals, and that's only if they're not working full time at the ice cream shop? The guy who can't transpose a country or folk or gospel song at the request of the singer and do it with a smile? The guy who can't do the previous even with the Nashville numbers scribbled on a napkin, passed to him by a bandmate who took pity? The guy who can't read a lead sheet they have never seen before? The guy who doesn't know the first thing about EQ and gets a sh*tty sound? The guy who doesn't have the technique to play four quarter notes in a row with consistent articulation and sustain? The guy who doesn't know they're not playing with the drummer? The guy whose technique flails around so much that there's just as much noise as there is tone? The guy who tunes to A440 and cant' hear that it's out of tune with the violinist who tuned to A442? Yeah, all these people showed up with their "cheap" basses because the barrier to entry is lower, regardless of the workmanship of modern cheap basses. It doesn't cost much to be a bass player, nowadays. So now there are more of them, but they all show up on their inexpensive basses, and the additional wannabes make today's $600 basses sound worse than they really are. If someone is un-satisfied with their "cheap" bass, they should first look to themselves first, to see if they're the ones that sound "cheap" before thinking it's the bass. The OP should instead be asking if our expectations of the player are not high enough . . . but that's not good for the music merchandise business.

That entire essay could be technically reworded for professional photography as well. Before quality digital cameras and phones came along it took years to build oneself into a professional photographer. The good ones were so valued that they were flown around the world on assignments with expense accounts, large budgets, good salaries, and real benefits and job security.

Now you can buy a full-frame professional camera for a grand, rent $2k lenses for a few days for under a hundred bucks, and the cameras do a lot of the work for you. The "film" is unlimited because it's digital, so you can just machine-gun a wedding, etc. and throw away most of the photos that don't work. Of course, that doesn't replace theory, technique, etc., but it does allow someone with a couple grand to call himself a professional photographer and charge money. Plus, since everyone is now an amateur photographer (phones), at a protest, for example there will be lots of good photos put online that news outlets take or buy for a fraction of the price they used to have to pay. News staffs have been decimated by the technology of the internet and digital photography.

Nevertheless, a true professional will work hard enough to rise above the field.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

That entire essay could be technically reworded for professional photography as well. Before quality digital cameras and phones came along it took years to build oneself into a professional photographer. The good ones were so valued that they were flown around the world on assignments with expense accounts, large budgets, good salaries, and real benefits and job security.

Now you can buy a full-frame professional camera for a grand, rent $2k lenses for a few days for under a hundred bucks, and the cameras do a lot of the work for you. The "film" is unlimited because it's digital, so you can just machine-gun a wedding, etc. and throw away most of the photos that don't work. Of course, that doesn't replace theory, technique, etc., but it does allow someone with a couple grand to call himself a professional photographer and charge money. Plus, since everyone is now an amateur photographer (phones), at a protest, for example there will be lots of good photos put online that news outlets take or buy for a fraction of the price they used to have to pay. News staffs have been decimated by the technology of the internet and digital photography.

Nevertheless, a true professional will work hard enough to rise above the field.

And for online, cell phone videos or pics are often "good enough". Often on Twitter in seconds after the even happens. The best of times, the worst of times, I guess.

 

[Fairmont]

not necessarily. you can always exchange a bass with issues.

most of the basses i get to mod aren't available at any price. for example, my husband just put in fender jazz pickups into one of my mikros. there is only one 28.6" scale jazz bass that i'm aware of, and i feel confident that it is unlikely to have that fender jazz sound i am looking for and may have other issues, while the mikro was already here and a known quantity. for $329 for the bass and pickups, plus $20ish for capacitors and mini pots, i have the exact bass i want - lightweight, sized like a mikro with that great '70s fender sound.

and cheap basses are great for people who want to experiment with mods.

for that matter, i love my bronco - i paid $129 new (i got a $20 discount), and i like how it feels, sounds and plays. true, not all broncos as good; my first one couldn't be intonated without replacing the bridge and didn't sound as good plus the neck had some tool marks i could feel, but this one is intonated just fine, neck feels good, sounds good. i'm quite happy with it. and many people who got the bronco while it was still listing at $149 drop in $11 to $25 pickups and are happy.

Check out my avatar. That's an Ibanez Mikro. I modified it for aesthetics and lightness (it's my recliner bass. Very compact and easy to play while sitting with my wife and watching her romantic reality shows). I cut the body, sanded the finish, and applied rubberized texture all over the body (and headstock). I made my own knobs (3D-printed) that are sturdier, designed and 3D-printed the bridge cover (which works really well has a comfortable handrest for picking near the bridge), and moved the electronics closer in (I had to). It's tiny now.

Someday I'll convert a Mikro to headless. A mini-Mikro if you will.

 

[Fairmont]

Um, bitter much?

While that might sound a bit bitter, he or she (I didn't check the profile) has a really good point. If that person really knows everything listed in that essay, then that's a professional who wants the work but sees a lot of missed opportunities and time because there are pros in the field who aren't truly ready but have pro-level equipment. I could see being more than annoyed by that if I were a professional muscian.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

While that might sound a bit bitter, he or she (I didn't check the profile) has a really good point. If that person really knows everything listed in that essay, then that's a professional who wants the work but sees a lot of missed opportunities and time because there are pros in the field who aren't truly ready but have pro-level equipment. I could see being more than annoyed by that if I were a professional muscian.

It sounded like a lot of personal issues to me. Excuses, mostly.

 

[barclaybass]

It sounded like a lot of personal issues to me. Excuses, mostly.

Exactly!
Actually it kinda sounds like they are trying to show us just what a wonderful intelligent musician they are by listing the perceived faults of all of those 'inferior ' bassists out there who dare to try and occupy a stage in front of such a master as themselves.
That post was so crammed full of ego its RIDICULOUS.
Case in point: I've never played 'Misty', have no desire to ever play 'Misty' and could care less who can play 'Misty'.....
Perhaps I wouldn't pass his requirements for being good enough to sniff his boots, dont care. I've recorded 3 albums and played thousands of shows, many to sold out clubs who were there to hear songs I had a hand in writing and recording, so I certainly dont need to meet their criteria of what a "real" bass player is to do what I do and have a hell of a good time doing it.
Sounds to me like they are jealous of people they perceive as inferior musicians getting out there and being successful at what they want to be doing.
I cant stand 'gatekeepers '

 

[ILIA]

It sounded like a lot of personal issues to me. Excuses, mostly.

Excuses for what, exactly? My main point was that one can't de-couple the value of a "cheap" bass from the person playing the "cheap" bass, and I used real world examples that illustrated the point.

Exactly!
Actually it kinda sounds like they are trying to show us just what a wonderful intelligent musician they are by listing the perceived faults of all of those 'inferior ' bassists out there who dare to try and occupy a stage in front of such a master as themselves.
That post was so crammed full of ego its RIDICULOUS.
Case in point: I've never played 'Misty', have no desire to ever play 'Misty' and could care less who can play 'Misty'.....
Perhaps I wouldn't pass his requirements for being good enough to sniff his boots, dont care. I've recorded 3 albums and played thousands of shows, many to sold out clubs who were there to hear songs I had a hand in writing and recording, so I certainly dont need to meet their criteria of what a "real" bass player is to do what I do and have a hell of a good time doing it.
Sounds to me like they are jealous of people they perceive as inferior musicians getting out there and being successful at what they want to be doing.
I cant stand 'gatekeepers '

The last thing I endeavor to do is to try to impress other people, especially those who think that others are out trying to impress them--trust me, no cares to impress you. "Misty" was just an example. Pick any other tune that is notated in E-flat. Who says I or anyone else is requiring anything of you? Nobody is your gatekeeper. Congrats in your success as you define it. Really. My main point was that one can't de-couple the value of a "cheap" bass from the person playing the "cheap" bass. Seriously.

Now, everyone go play bass and be happy. Talk Bass. Don't Talk Gear.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Excuses for what, exactly? My main point was that one can't de-couple the value of a "cheap" bass from the person playing the "cheap" bass, and I used real world examples that illustrated the point.

There were a lot of real world examples. Heh. Sure, you can find examples of people that have cheap basses that can play really well and examples of people with cheap basses that can't. You can find examples of people with $10k instruments that can't play and examples of people that are going to slay with those instruments. If you look at the bulk of circumstances, quality players are going to show up with quality gear. Gear may help you get the initial gig, but playing will get the follow up gigs.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

There were a lot of real world examples. Heh. Sure, you can find examples of people that have cheap basses that can play really well and examples of people with cheap basses that can't. You can find examples of people with $10k instruments that can't play and examples of people that are going to slay with those instruments. If you look at the bulk of circumstances, quality players are going to show up with quality gear. Gear may help you get the initial gig, but playing will get the follow up gigs.

It's just priorities!

Everyone wants to be an "endorser" for SQUIRE!

 

[Frank Vozak]

I would endorse SQUIER if they would have me. Squier and a little 15 watt Fender bass amp let me get back into playing bass as a retiree and let me have a second bass for strictly acoustic use and let me have a bass that everybody is talking about on one of our threads. Actually second lines of major brands like Fender allow them to try stuff that is new and different without risking the main brand. A Fender design that fails is a big deal; a Squier design that fails people just forget about so Fender can take risks and try new ideas to see if they will work or if they will fly without risking damaging Fender name and reputation like in the sixties when Fender tried to put out high powered solid state amps that got so hot you could fry an egg on the head right before the amp melted down. There are some really nice and interesting guitars and basses that Squier came out this year like myh favorite my Precision Mini.