Well peanut, What is your Idea of "Hardcore" first of all?
Its ok to rant, but Lets be Specific - UM K.
2nd - Are you an authority on "what makes a "real Bassist"?
If so, I personally would like to see some credentials.
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Are hardcore bassists true bassists?
- Thread starter Bassfiend456
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Well peanut, What is your Idea of "Hardcore" first of all?
Its ok to rant, but Lets be Specific - UM K.
2nd - Are you an authority on "what makes a "real Bassist"?
If so, I personally would like to see some credentials.
Once again, I was referring to my personal experience with hard-core bands, and not generalizing all hardcore music, so I stand by my statement.
I really should know better, but here goes..........................
The OP fails to recognize that talent and taste are relative. That is, what appeals to one person may or may not appeal to another. His age is showing.
I was gigging, as were many of us here, before you were loading your diapers. I have basses older than you.
I personally know of two players that were 'one-note grinders' that actually developed into something else. I taught chords to a kid that went on to have a serious national gig not 5 years later. I found out when I saw him on TV.
I coached another young gun that eventually got ME a showcase gig 2000 miles from home.There will always be someone that plays 'better' than you. If you are looking sideways, it should be to learn and teach, not judge.
Art is not a competitve sport, my friend.
Listen to me now, but hear me later.
The OP fails to recognize that talent and taste are relative. That is, what appeals to one person may or may not appeal to another. His age is showing.
I was gigging, as were many of us here, before you were loading your diapers. I have basses older than you.
I personally know of two players that were 'one-note grinders' that actually developed into something else. I taught chords to a kid that went on to have a serious national gig not 5 years later. I found out when I saw him on TV.
I coached another young gun that eventually got ME a showcase gig 2000 miles from home.There will always be someone that plays 'better' than you. If you are looking sideways, it should be to learn and teach, not judge.
Art is not a competitve sport, my friend.
Listen to me now, but hear me later.
The hardcore scene doesn't mean a thing to me, or to many folks here, but if hardcore bands are getting gigs and people are coming to see them, they're doing something right. It's more than I've managed in my few months of playing.
And does it really require so much talent to play three notes a song, instead of one? Simple playing is not the sign of an inept musician, though they coincide in my case.
And does it really require so much talent to play three notes a song, instead of one? Simple playing is not the sign of an inept musician, though they coincide in my case.
I really should know better than to post here either but...
- If you're playing covers (as I do, I have a 'day' job), it's probably best to stay close to the original bass line. That means, after a brief run, you'll be banging a low "B" incessentaly for "White Wedding" and only ever play a C, D, A and maybe an E for "Don't Forget About Me." That's the way these tunes go. That's what bar band groupies pay to hear. Sorry.
- If you're doing more exotic stuff...sure. Twist in various modalities, a few chords, some intricate right hand work. sotjian named some good ones, add in Dream Theater, Dillinger Escape Plan (but not tooooo much!)...sure. Love it.
Which guy is the "real" bass player? Dunno. Remember that scene in "That Thing You Do" where Wolfman shows up just in time for the television special and the obnoxious guitard/songwriter challenges his chops...?
- If you're playing covers (as I do, I have a 'day' job), it's probably best to stay close to the original bass line. That means, after a brief run, you'll be banging a low "B" incessentaly for "White Wedding" and only ever play a C, D, A and maybe an E for "Don't Forget About Me." That's the way these tunes go. That's what bar band groupies pay to hear. Sorry.
- If you're doing more exotic stuff...sure. Twist in various modalities, a few chords, some intricate right hand work. sotjian named some good ones, add in Dream Theater, Dillinger Escape Plan (but not tooooo much!)...sure. Love it.
Which guy is the "real" bass player? Dunno. Remember that scene in "That Thing You Do" where Wolfman shows up just in time for the television special and the obnoxious guitard/songwriter challenges his chops...?
I don't think that's his point. I mean, I LOVE hardcore music, but some of them just turn out to be random background noise. What's the point of playing complicated lines when you just end up (sounding like) raping the strings with the pick?
because picks are for horrible guitarists who became bassists
ladies and gentlemen, we have a troll...
Calebmundy
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- Apr 5, 2007
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Which is an interesting statement conisdering that Larry Graham-widely known as the father of slap bass-played only 8th notes on the open E string for the entire recorded performance of Sly and the Family Stone's "Everyday People".
- Dec 18, 2000
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One song of many however in Graham's long career of playing with a lot of variety.
I think what little point there is to this thread is that bassists in the mentioned genre often are percieved as having very limited roles song after song after song. But I expect that perception will change for those less familiar with the genre as more players and bands step up to the plate with some obviously cooler lines, and that get more play in soundtracks and such.
There's plenty of room in any genre to go beyond the mundane.
I think that the OP is just pissed because he can't get a gig because of his elitist attitude.
I usually try to steer clear of "genre x" vs. "genre y" disputes, but this is particularly ridiculous, and as a bassist in a hardcore band and as a hardcore fan, it is extremely insulting to insinuate that bassists who choose to play hardcore are not really bassists.
Hardcore may not be as technical as Giant Steps or as pretty sounding as Portrait of Tracy, but it has its own set of challenges and rewards. One of these challenges is timing. Most modern hardcore has ridiculously syncopated start/stop breakdowns that MUST be played PERFECTLY, or the entire band will sound bad. A hardcore band will often attack a song as a single instrument, which leads to a very heavy, driving feel.
We also have a lot of situations where we have the opportunity to play some more complex and interesting parts. In my band, I use tapping, pinch harmonics and lots of effects to spice things up.
The biggest part of my musical education (aside from years of lessons) was listening to John Paul Jones interacting with Bonham and Page. The most important duty that a bassist (or any player, for that matter) has is to serve the song first, and self last. In any genre, there will be times to lay back and keep it simple, and there will be times when something more interesting will be called for.
I usually try to steer clear of "genre x" vs. "genre y" disputes, but this is particularly ridiculous, and as a bassist in a hardcore band and as a hardcore fan, it is extremely insulting to insinuate that bassists who choose to play hardcore are not really bassists.
Hardcore may not be as technical as Giant Steps or as pretty sounding as Portrait of Tracy, but it has its own set of challenges and rewards. One of these challenges is timing. Most modern hardcore has ridiculously syncopated start/stop breakdowns that MUST be played PERFECTLY, or the entire band will sound bad. A hardcore band will often attack a song as a single instrument, which leads to a very heavy, driving feel.
We also have a lot of situations where we have the opportunity to play some more complex and interesting parts. In my band, I use tapping, pinch harmonics and lots of effects to spice things up.
The biggest part of my musical education (aside from years of lessons) was listening to John Paul Jones interacting with Bonham and Page. The most important duty that a bassist (or any player, for that matter) has is to serve the song first, and self last. In any genre, there will be times to lay back and keep it simple, and there will be times when something more interesting will be called for.
Yeah, but I can't really tell if I'm dealing with an aging old fart (e.g. "In my day we used to PLAY our darn instruments dag nabbit, not just chug chug chug"), or some 15 year old who just doesn't know any better.
Bassfiend, clear this up, will you???
I don't know how well you play, but I'm willing to bet that I can name 2 or 3 bassists from "hardcore" bands who could play circles around most bassists, probably including you!
Honestly, you should really try to adjust your dismissive attitude. I'm pretty sure you don't understand what you are talking about, nor have you ever played a hardcore set. Those guys work more than most. Yeah, it's mostly right hand stuff, but you try it for a song, then try it for a 2 hour set.
Seriously, pick any Black Flag album, go to your woodshed and come back when you can play a whole album without missing a note, then tell me whether or not you were being a bassist while you stumbled through the material!
Sorry if I'm not being very generous, but really, this kind of stuff grinds my gears!
- Dec 18, 2000
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I'm also seeing some shifting sands as to what constitutes "hardcore". The older school definition probably goes back to the LA punk scene, but could even consider some "cowpunk" and say MC5 as brethren and progenitors, while the newer one has constituents in bands starting around Helmet's time and also various flaves of stripped-down modern metal...
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