Are Local Venues Killing Music?

[socialleper]

If you are perfectly fine playing the venue but not willing to frequent said venue, then BINGO, you are part of the problem. I very much enjoy not only playing but going to & seeing music at a multitude of places, dives included, & do often. I won't really disagree with the issues of improvements some venues need, even I as a lover of dives have a limit. But as hrodbert696 said these places are on a very tight bottem line & can either hire you to play or rebuild, choice is yours. And if your to good to patroinize the bar then don't bitch there's no where to play when they're gone.

Actually, I'm not the problem, they are. If all there is to play in are dumps, then I have to play in dumps. However, because I know they are dumps, why would I go out to them if I'm not trying to get my music out there? That is why I hit this from both side. As a consumer I get why they are hurting; they aren't a place anyone people want to naturally go to. Bad parking a block away in a place you shouldn't be walking around in at night. Lousy drinks. Dirty. That's on them and why should I reward that with my patronage?
Which is sort of my point. The live music is the only thing keeping these rat traps open, yet zero consideration is given to anything related to the band. Parking, ramps, a staging area, a stage that can fit more than the drums, anything to make it stink less to play there would be nice.

 

[Johnny Crab]

Threads like these make me very, VERY thankful to have lived when one paid $2 to $5 to see LEGENDS of music in their prime(Warehouse, New Orleans and Ole Man Rivers, west bank of New Orleans), performed at those same venues, played in places from Baton Rouge to Grand Isle(growing up and getting experience), and still get to do 80+ shows per year.

One thing we've seen "killing music", as we're all 60+, is a lack of experience and a wrong attitude. There are some venues that will no longer have bands except those with experience and no attitude because of some of the tantrums, childish crap pulled onstage in front of paying patrons, etc. Venue owners have told us this. "New bands" with no following do get chances BUT if the venue owner loses money everytime they play, it is not going to work. Clubs and venues are not a "right" and don't owe anyone a job or a chance. They OWN the place.

Again, very thankful. Good luck to those just starting out, be patient. It's a long road but worthwhile if you treat everyone like you want to be treated and watch your back(and later have your roadies watch it while you have some).

 

[socialleper]

People don't drink as much as they used to, hence most bars are a losing proposition.

Actually I don't think that is entirely true.
People my age (early 40s) and younger are just far more picky about what we drink. Horse urine America macrobrew lagers and plain old Jack isn't all that appealing. But that stuff costs more, which means at a location is gets really expensive. A $5 dollar Belgian Quad becomes $8 or $10s at a bar, and Bob's Bar isn't going to have it anyway. I actually prefer to drink at home because I know the beer is good, the bathroom works, and the glasses are clean.
There are a lot of drinking locations near me, but none of them have live bands. One I went to recently was ridiculously busy so it was already too loud. Then an abusively loud DJ started pumping stuff so loud I couldn't talk to my friends, so I left.

 

[socialleper]

I'm confused. You're blaming venues for killing music, because the owners aren't running their business to your standards?
A crappy venue is still better to me than no venue.
maybe the places are dumpy because they can't afford to make them nice. People don't go out to support live music much, is it that unbelievable that a lot of these places are fighting to stay afloat?

Live music has died down a lot, because the times change. Young people are reacting to technology and the music that speaks to them, just like previous generations did.
Maybe venue owners would rather book a DJ, actually make some money to feed their families then book the bands you like. Can you really blame them?

I've met people who promote/organize events, from techno to live music festivals. It's not an easy thing to do. Some make money, but most I've met don't; mostly when your booking music that isn't super commercial. It's def a labor of love.

It's easy to complain about it, but what are you doing to promote your local music scene?

That's a pithy little line, but what does that really even mean? I live in Los Angeles; no additional advertising needed. You can't promote something that is already known world wide. The problem is the local venues aren't keeping up with the reputation. Things are changing, and places with DJs are doing well, very well, but their venues are a lot nicer to start off with. Beyond the music, the place is a location you actually want to be in. If the venues don't want to update their amenities so they don't look like the late 70s and early 80s threw up in them, there isn't much I as a band can do.

What I'm saying is it seems like a spiraling catch 22. The venues are dingy because they don't have money for upkeep. Because they are dumps no one wants to go to them, so attendance is low. Its a business right? Doesn't any business that wants to attract customers need to project its self as a place people want to be by being clean, safe and efficiently run?

 

[Spectrum]

People will live with a bar being kind of a dump as long as it has a vibe to it. The owner has to make an effort to establish a scene there, to make it known to the locals that if you want to see live bands of a particular genre or what have you, this is a place where you can see them every Friday and Saturday night, reliably. It has to be where that music's crowd likes to hang out. That's tough when starting out; you have to pay bands before your scene is established and hope it catches on. Like any sort of a restaurant business the chances of failure are pretty high, but that's always been true.

I do agree that times are different. When I was a teenager in South Jersey in the 80s there were actual rock clubs all over the place. They even had no-alcohol teen nights so all us high schoolers got to gig semi-regularly, and there were girls everywhere. A cover band didn't play "classic rock" covers because there was no such thing; if you played covers you played current music, and the idea of seeing a band of 40-somethings in a joint like those was preposterous. There was no internet or smart phones to distract people, playing video games on a Friday night was for losers. DJs were for dance clubs in cities or birthday parties, and rock was still mainstream pop music, not EDM or other genres that don't rely heavily on a band of real musicians. Underage drinking and DUI was taken less seriously then. Being where live rock bands were playing was considered the coolest place to be socially.

 

[mwbassace]

Actually I don't think that is entirely true.
People my age (early 40s) and younger are just far more picky about what we drink. Horse urine America macrobrew lagers and plain old Jack isn't all that appealing. But that stuff costs more, which means at a location is gets really expensive. A $5 dollar Belgian Quad becomes $8 or $10s at a bar, and Bob's Bar isn't going to have it anyway. I actually prefer to drink at home because I know the beer is good, the bathroom works, and the glasses are clean.
There are a lot of drinking locations near me, but none of them have live bands. One I went to recently was ridiculously busy so it was already too loud. Then an abusively loud DJ started pumping stuff so loud I couldn't talk to my friends, so I left.

The cool thing around here is that we have a diverse market. Our downtown has more upscale bars with craft beer, wine & specialty bars with bands. One of Toledo's new places (Fleetwood's Taproom) is downtown next to our AAA ball stadium and has an outdoor live music area (as well as indoor) for the warmer months. But we also have many (although not as many as in the past) sports/niche bars, as well as biker bars w/bands.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Things I see around where I live:

– Venues book bands as an afterthought, hoping to extend their prime hours of business. They don't promote the bands, they don't provide the most basic of stage area, lighting or PA support (or god forbid, a sound engineer). They don't pay squat, so they eventually only attract subpar acts. The bands often drive away regular customers faster than they can build a following. Venue owners decide bands are bad for business and resort to DJs or iPod instead.

– Some venues do a better job vetting the talent. They rely heavily on local bands bringing a crowd, but they fail to realize that friends/family are not going to show up if the same band is playing every other week. They tend to overexpose the bands on their roster. They are extremely reluctant to book new talent -- they can't be bothered to return your call or email, or listen to your demo CD. They will never call you back. Ever. It's like they don't want to attract new customers. They do the bare minimum to promote (occasional social media). They may have a basic stage area, lighting and house PA (still no engineer). Bands earn $300-400 per night if they are lucky.

– The most vibrant part of the local scene relies on indie bands essentially playing for free (despite immense talent in some cases). It must be worthwhile to the venues, but the musicians are starving to death.

– "A-list" venues that ONLY book the same handful of tried and true R&B cover bands. No variety, no chance of getting your foot in the door even on an off-night.

Things venues do to shoot themselves in the foot:

– Crappy stage, PA and lighting. Awful sound, excessive volume, and musicians playing in the dark.

– Inconsistent cover charge designed to take advantage of the band by skimming and letting regulars in for free. Treating the bands as a mark instead of a business partner.

– Starting way too late. In my case, it's bar & grill places that want you to start at 9:30PM or later. Sorry, but my crowd is on bed by 10PM. If they do come out, we're talking 2 drinks max. Let us start at 8PM, and we'll fill your restaurant with 50+ people eating and drinking for a few hours.

– No promotion. Radio and print ads are non-existent. Places use Facebook and Twitter to routinely promote their $7.99 shrimp special, but they can't be bothered to post/share the promo you sent them. I also started putting up posters myself in the venues because I couldn't trust that the managers would do it. How are they going to draw a crowd for live music of the public doesn't hear about it?

– Continuing to book the same tired bands that are bad for business. PLEASE, take a few minutes and vet the talent properly. Make an effort to see them play in person if possible. Hire good bands and pay them a fair price. Get rid of acts that fail to draw or routinely clear the room. Just because they only charge $50 doesn't mean they are good for business. If you are going to book live music, don't be half-a**ed about it.

 

[Korladis]

On Talk Bass we flap our gums a lot about the damage digital streaming has done to the revenues of original artists. But what about the damage being done at the roots of the music biz; the local venue? As a guy trying to play smaller clubs and bars, it seems to me like these guys are doing just as much to stifle the music biz as pirates.
When was the last time you went to a gig not to play, not to see a friend play, or not to see a bigger artist play? When was the last time you wanted to just be at a nearby bar or club? (If there is even a nearby bar or club.) As a consumer, by and large, most of them are dumps I don't want to be at. They are usually in sketchy parts of town with no parking and a weak selection of overpriced drinks served by a salty (at best) employees. Even ones that are only a few years old look decades old. Oh boy, more black and darkwood with red lighting! Will I get a staph infection from the bathroom? Who knows, it is out of order; not that the door really closed anyway. Really the only driver for these places are the live bands.
And how do they treat their live bands? Well, again, no parking. If you if leave your gear in the car it is totally going to get stolen. Loading in is through the small front door everyone is standing in front of. (Don't worry miss; go ahead and block my way while I drag gear that weighs more than you do, around you.) Stairs? Awesome! Is that a stage or two pallets you stacked on top of each other in the corner and painted black? They do such a great job advertising that the only people in there are the people I brought to the show. And for all the hard work they did, obviously they don't need to share the door or bar take with me; a solo cup half filled with Bud Light will pay for my gas and time.
Local venues seem to put zero effort into their appearance or amenities, then complain they aren't making any money. No duh; your venue is unattractive, has no vibe, and is a pain in the backside for customers and bands alike. If these small venues are the birth places of up and coming musicians, and are apathetically slumming their ways towards insolvency, where will the next generation of musicians go to cut their teeth? Where will young men or women go to catch the music bug? Will people want to go live it up at a place that throbs with the aura of necrotizing dreams?
It feels to me like a little paint, a mop, and maybe some working urinals could go a long way to rejuvenate local music scenes. Am I wrong? Am I taking crazy pills here?

As for where bands will go to cut their teeth? DIY venues, house parties.

Honestly, though, in my area the local venues are pretty great. Bottom of the Hill is fantastic, the Golden Bull is a cool place to hang out regardless of whether you're seeing a show (and has bathrooms that don't feel like a horror movie; about the level as most local restaurants), the Oakland Metro has great drink selection as well as great bands, and even Eli's is stepping up their game with a new second bar in the back, a full kitchen, and brand new, nice bathrooms (its terrible restrooms used to be infamous in the local scene). The Night Light is a cool bar as well as a venue, same with the Uptown (though the stairs suck). The Hemlock has fantastic drinks (always got a bunch of craft beers on tap that band drink tickets are good for, no matter how expensive they'd normally be).

As for parking, most of them put a couple cones out front so that band vans have somewhere to park that's convenient to load in from. Leaving gear in the car is a bad idea regardless of where the vehicle is (unless it's inside your garage).

 

[Korladis]

and the carpets..........don't get me started about the carpets...

Honestly, if I owned a bar I wouldn't put a carpet in it. Way too hard to maintain in an environment that sees tons of spills and worse.

If having live music meant increased income, the venues would support it.

- higher drinking age (and stricter enforcement) took away a lot of the market (no high schoolers and college kids packing the bars)
- stricter enforcement of more stringent dwi ( when I was in college, it was .15, and it was rare for someone to get arrested unless there was an accident)
- no smoking (I used to have a set of clothes and jacket just for gigs, since you could never get the stink out)
- with phones, more people are creating their own entertainment. Getting a driver's license is not the big rite of passage it used to be for many.
- less band-friendly pop music

Higher drinking age definitely would be bad for venues.

However, I've grown up in a place where no one my age can even remember smoking in venues. So it's not that much of a consideration, and many venues have adapted by opening patios.

I don't think "the scene is dying."

One of my bands just played our first show, last night at a bar in Santa Cruz, California. It was packed, despite being a rainy weeknight, and it being all original bands.

But the difference between CBGB's and most local dives is that they booked up and coming acts, and original acts. How many dives stick their neck out like that? Not many. Most just hire the local old blues/rock cover band. And if you ask me, that's what's really stifling local scenes and young musicians. There's often times no where for them to play, and the bands in the bars are the same guys that have been playing the same basic set for years. Young people don't want to bar and see people older than their parents playing wet blanket versions of the same songs they've been playing for years. I'm not trying to point fingers, if you enjoy doing that, great, but it shouldn't come as a surprise when people don't pack a bar for that sort of entertainment. People my age go out and listen to live music, at least where I am, but it's usually not for your standard blues rock stuff, it's for exciting stuff. That's not to say I don't understand why bars usually get the old standards, it's a safe business decision, it's usually a pretty known variable, taking a bet on an unknown isn't the smartest move. There's plenty of other factors as well, but that's a pretty big one in my book.

I think I'd agree.

Original, new bands, are a risk. Though thankfully a lot of places here in the bay are willing to take that risk. There's a pretty vibrant live music scene in the east bay, especially.

I don't know where you live, but the majority of the venues in Portland are awesome. Hell, the only issue is a lot of them do have stairs.

We played at a place called The High Water Mark while on tour, in Portland. It was a fun show.

Threads like these make me very, VERY thankful to have lived when one paid $2 to $5 to see LEGENDS of music in their prime(Warehouse, New Orleans and Ole Man Rivers, west bank of New Orleans), performed at those same venues, played in places from Baton Rouge to Grand Isle(growing up and getting experience), and still get to do 80+ shows per year.

One thing we've seen "killing music", as we're all 60+, is a lack of experience and a wrong attitude. There are some venues that will no longer have bands except those with experience and no attitude because of some of the tantrums, childish crap pulled onstage in front of paying patrons, etc. Venue owners have told us this. "New bands" with no following do get chances BUT if the venue owner loses money everytime they play, it is not going to work. Clubs and venues are not a "right" and don't owe anyone a job or a chance. They OWN the place.

Again, very thankful. Good luck to those just starting out, be patient. It's a long road but worthwhile if you treat everyone like you want to be treated and watch your back(and later have your roadies watch it while you have some).

You always have to have a good attitude, in my experience, playing the local original scene.

Sometimes there are bad nights, but places will be a lot more forgiving of that if you are easy to work with. Don't try to pull rockstar behavior, even if you are one.

Actually I don't think that is entirely true.
People my age (early 40s) and younger are just far more picky about what we drink. Horse urine America macrobrew lagers and plain old Jack isn't all that appealing. But that stuff costs more, which means at a location is gets really expensive. A $5 dollar Belgian Quad becomes $8 or $10s at a bar, and Bob's Bar isn't going to have it anyway. I actually prefer to drink at home because I know the beer is good, the bathroom works, and the glasses are clean.
There are a lot of drinking locations near me, but none of them have live bands. One I went to recently was ridiculously busy so it was already too loud. Then an abusively loud DJ started pumping stuff so loud I couldn't talk to my friends, so I left.

Most of the places I play have good beer and not that expensively priced. Craft beers on tap.

 

[ShadowImage]

As for where bands will go to cut their teeth? DIY venues, house parties.

Honestly, though, in my area the local venues are pretty great. Bottom of the Hill is fantastic, the Golden Bull is a cool place to hang out regardless of whether you're seeing a show (and has bathrooms that don't feel like a horror movie; about the level as most local restaurants), the Oakland Metro has great drink selection as well as great bands, and even Eli's is stepping up their game with a new second bar in the back, a full kitchen, and brand new, nice bathrooms (its terrible restrooms used to be infamous in the local scene). The Night Light is a cool bar as well as a venue, same with the Uptown (though the stairs suck). The Hemlock has fantastic drinks (always got a bunch of craft beers on tap that band drink tickets are good for, no matter how expensive they'd normally be).

As for parking, most of them put a couple cones out front so that band vans have somewhere to park that's convenient to load in from. Leaving gear in the car is a bad idea regardless of where the vehicle is (unless it's inside your garage).

I've played the Night Light a few times. It's ok but the stairs and no air conditioning doesn't help. The sound guy didn't show up until 9pm last time I played. The next night the promoters held, the house/sound people didn't show up at all so the promoters I was working with have given up on it. I've had offers to play the Golden Bull but the stage looks so damn tiny. There is a lot of drama up in Oakland with promoters so I don't know when I'll be back up there again.
The Oakland Metro is very cool, I definitely want to book there when I have the opportunity but so far no takes from promoters.

 

[hrodbert696]

If having live music meant increased income, the venues would support it.

- higher drinking age (and stricter enforcement) took away a lot of the market (no high schoolers and college kids packing the bars)
- stricter enforcement of more stringent dwi ( when I was in college, it was .15, and it was rare for someone to get arrested unless there was an accident)
- no smoking (I used to have a set of clothes and jacket just for gigs, since you could never get the stink out)
- with phones, more people are creating their own entertainment. Getting a driver's license is not the big rite of passage it used to be for many.
- less band-friendly pop music

Agree, except that I'm not so sure about the smoking thing. I get it that there was a big dip in bar attendance when public smoking bans went into effect, but I doubt that this was responsible for long-term changes. Most people don't smoke and going to spend the evening in a smoky bar would be a negative for them, so it seems to me that bans on public smoking would make venues more appealing, not less. It may be, though, that the bans "broke the momentum" of venues, if they had a dip in revenue from smokers staying home and weren't able to maneuver to attract new customers. That could disrupt a scene. Seems like the cycle would run its course by now though.

But the difference between CBGB's and most local dives is that they booked up and coming acts, and original acts. How many dives stick their neck out like that? Not many. Most just hire the local old blues/rock cover band. And if you ask me, that's what's really stifling local scenes and young musicians. There's often times no where for them to play, and the bands in the bars are the same guys that have been playing the same basic set for years. Young people don't want to bar and see people older than their parents playing wet blanket versions of the same songs they've been playing for years. I'm not trying to point fingers, if you enjoy doing that, great, but it shouldn't come as a surprise when people don't pack a bar for that sort of entertainment. People my age go out and listen to live music, at least where I am, but it's usually not for your standard blues rock stuff, it's for exciting stuff. That's not to say I don't understand why bars usually get the old standards, it's a safe business decision, it's usually a pretty known variable, taking a bet on an unknown isn't the smartest move. There's plenty of other factors as well, but that's a pretty big one in my book.

But that's exactly my point - yes, CBGB's was willing to book unknown and upcoming acts. But in all of New York City, they were practically the only bar that did. Most of the bars in the city were only booking cover bands then, too. So how should we expect much more if we're in second- or third-tier markets like Manchester or South Bend or Boise? And from what I've read, I don't think it was because the management had a forward-thinking master plan. They knew they wanted music, but the name stands for "country, bluegrass and blues." The managers didn't know how to book the kinds of acts they wanted, so they handed the job to musician friends, who went and invited all their punk friends in.

I think you're also right, though, about the problems with a lot - maybe most - cover bands. I'm just now trying to launch a band to cover 21st century alternative and indie music, resorting to CL because most musicians I know are either already busy, don't want to gig, or live too far away. I've gotten some responses, and from some, right off the bat, I start getting people saying they want to do older music. Yes, there's a lot of Geezer Rock out there, badly played, that isn't at all appealing to younger crowds who actually go out. I think a lot of the problem is guitarists, honestly. If being in a band doesn't pay the bills, then they want to play music that they feel good about playing, and that's inevitably going to be guitar-hero stuff, which if not what modern music is about. So they insist on playing all this music that nobody in the crowd gives a dam about.

Any business is risky, and I'm sure there are a lot of dominoes that need to fall in the right order for them to work. For some, the scuzzy vibe may work. A place like CBGBs was a response to the disco era, sort of a anti-disco, anti-decadence sort of thing. If you are Bob's Bar and look like CBGBs only don't have the vibe on purpose, or the bands to go along with it, that isn't a good sign.

But some businesses are riskier than others. I don't hear that insurance agencies have the same fail rate as bars. And no - CBGB's wasn't a dive out of some smart artsy purpose. CBGB's was a dive because it was a dive and no one knew what they were doing. Maybe later on they kept it more dive-y deliberately, but that was after it had become the hip underground place to go. Disco came a few years later, CBGB's wasn't reacting to it.

 

[Korladis]

I've played the Night Light a few times. It's ok but the stairs and no air conditioning doesn't help. The sound guy didn't show up until 9pm last time I played. The next night the promoters held, the house/sound people didn't show up at all so the promoters I was working with have given up on it. I've had offers to play the Golden Bull but the stage looks so damn tiny. There is a lot of drama up in Oakland with promoters so I don't know when I'll be back up there again.
The Oakland Metro is very cool, I definitely want to book there when I have the opportunity but so far no takes from promoters.

Most places up here don't have air conditioning. That's true of both commercial buildings and houses. The Night Light does have some problems.

The stage at the Golden Bull is bigger than it looks. It's been recently been expanded. They've always treated us very well. It's a good place, especially if Justin is doing sound. Honestly it's probably my favorite local venue. Also the same people book/work both there and the Metro sometimes.

There has been some drama lately in the Oakland scene mainly with one promoter basically being driven out of town for being a predatory scumbag.

Justin and Jason are my favorite bookers/promoters around here. Good dudes.

 

[two fingers]

If having live music meant increased income, the venues would support it.

- higher drinking age (and stricter enforcement) took away a lot of the market (no high schoolers and college kids packing the bars)
- stricter enforcement of more stringent dwi ( when I was in college, it was .15, and it was rare for someone to get arrested unless there was an accident)
- no smoking (I used to have a set of clothes and jacket just for gigs, since you could never get the stink out)
- with phones, more people are creating their own entertainment. Getting a driver's license is not the big rite of passage it used to be for many.
- less band-friendly pop music

All great points.

OP, live music doesn't "drive the bar business". The chance to get laid or drunk or simply have a good tine drives the bar business.

The problem with most bar bands is that they don't understand that they are there to assist with getting laid, getting drunk and having a good time....all in a manner that is profitable for the BAR.

Many of you are under the delusion that "If I play great music and play it well" I will have a successful bar band. Wrong. If you play SMASH HITS at least fairly OK, show up on time prepared with no drama, and actually help the bar sell a lot of stuff they would not have sold otherwise you will have a successful bar band.

Have any of you ever asked the bar staff what they profit the most off of? Have you ever asked them what they would most like to push tonight? I do. And whatever that is I hammer it all night on the mic.

Have any of you ever taken your "break" to go out in the audiences and find out if there are any birthday parties or Bachelorette parties or anniversaries going on? I do. And those people get a song, a mention on the mic, and sometimes get to come on stage if they want to. To me, there's no such thing as a "break" in a four hour gig. I can work straight through for four hours as long as I can pee at some point.

Once you get a good reputation as a professional and profitable act, the shows will come to you. But you don't get that reputation simply by showing up at the bar and rocking the crap out of Moondance and then sticking your hand out at the end of the night. You have to earn it.

Many of you think that your years of experience should have earned you a hundred dollar bill just for playing your instrument. Not so. You are providing a service to the bar and you are being paid for it. Just like at many jobs, if you provide that service better than anyone else, you will likely get more work and get paid more to do it. And, make no mistake, the "service" you are being hired to provide is NOT entertainment alone. The bar doesn't need an entertained crowd that doesn't BUY anything. You are in SALES. The bar needs you to SELL things for them. Otherwise, why are you really there? You have to set your ego aside long enough to figure out that you are not soooooooooooo amazing that the bar is lucky to have you. They don't care if you can tap out Eric Johnson's "Cliffs of Dover" on a bass guitar with one hand while doing your taxes with the other. If you can half a$$ pull off some smash hits, show everybody a good time, and make THEM some money (all with ZERO DRAMA) you are the band for them.

Your goal is not to learn 40 of the band's favorite songs and then start making phone calls to book shows. Your goal is to become a professional unit that understands WHY a bar might potentially hire you.

 

[Korladis]

Break? Lol.

 

[brianrost]

Am I wrong? Am I taking crazy pills here?

Your post could have been written at any time since people started driving cars

It's not the responsibility of anyone to hire musicians. I'm coming from the perspective of someone who has been on the other side of the fence promoting my own shows and working for other promoters.

It would be better to come out in strong support of venues that do keep live music happening.

 

[Jrussblues]

On Talk Bass we flap our gums a lot about the damage digital streaming has done to the revenues of original artists. But what about the damage being done at the roots of the music biz; the local venue? As a guy trying to play smaller clubs and bars, it seems to me like these guys are doing just as much to stifle the music biz as pirates.
When was the last time you went to a gig not to play, not to see a friend play, or not to see a bigger artist play? When was the last time you wanted to just be at a nearby bar or club? (If there is even a nearby bar or club.) As a consumer, by and large, most of them are dumps I don't want to be at. They are usually in sketchy parts of town with no parking and a weak selection of overpriced drinks served by a salty (at best) employees. Even ones that are only a few years old look decades old. Oh boy, more black and darkwood with red lighting! Will I get a staph infection from the bathroom? Who knows, it is out of order; not that the door really closed anyway. Really the only driver for these places are the live bands.
And how do they treat their live bands? Well, again, no parking. If you if leave your gear in the car it is totally going to get stolen. Loading in is through the small front door everyone is standing in front of. (Don't worry miss; go ahead and block my way while I drag gear that weighs more than you do, around you.) Stairs? Awesome! Is that a stage or two pallets you stacked on top of each other in the corner and painted black? They do such a great job advertising that the only people in there are the people I brought to the show. And for all the hard work they did, obviously they don't need to share the door or bar take with me; a solo cup half filled with Bud Light will pay for my gas and time.
Local venues seem to put zero effort into their appearance or amenities, then complain they aren't making any money. No duh; your venue is unattractive, has no vibe, and is a pain in the backside for customers and bands alike. If these small venues are the birth places of up and coming musicians, and are apathetically slumming their ways towards insolvency, where will the next generation of musicians go to cut their teeth? Where will young men or women go to catch the music bug? Will people want to go live it up at a place that throbs with the aura of necrotizing dreams?
It feels to me like a little paint, a mop, and maybe some working urinals could go a long way to rejuvenate local music scenes. Am I wrong? Am I taking crazy pills here?

Cocaine costs more than toilets and paint and if you think a bar owner is going to pull from the coke fund to fix the bar up you are mistaken.

 

[Albiechaser]

On Talk Bass we flap our gums a lot about the damage digital streaming has done to the revenues of original artists. But what about the damage being done at the roots of the music biz; the local venue? As a guy trying to play smaller clubs and bars, it seems to me like these guys are doing just as much to stifle the music biz as pirates.
When was the last time you went to a gig not to play, not to see a friend play, or not to see a bigger artist play? When was the last time you wanted to just be at a nearby bar or club? (If there is even a nearby bar or club.) As a consumer, by and large, most of them are dumps I don't want to be at. They are usually in sketchy parts of town with no parking and a weak selection of overpriced drinks served by a salty (at best) employees. Even ones that are only a few years old look decades old. Oh boy, more black and darkwood with red lighting! Will I get a staph infection from the bathroom? Who knows, it is out of order; not that the door really closed anyway. Really the only driver for these places are the live bands.
And how do they treat their live bands? Well, again, no parking. If you if leave your gear in the car it is totally going to get stolen. Loading in is through the small front door everyone is standing in front of. (Don't worry miss; go ahead and block my way while I drag gear that weighs more than you do, around you.) Stairs? Awesome! Is that a stage or two pallets you stacked on top of each other in the corner and painted black? They do such a great job advertising that the only people in there are the people I brought to the show. And for all the hard work they did, obviously they don't need to share the door or bar take with me; a solo cup half filled with Bud Light will pay for my gas and time.
Local venues seem to put zero effort into their appearance or amenities, then complain they aren't making any money. No duh; your venue is unattractive, has no vibe, and is a pain in the backside for customers and bands alike. If these small venues are the birth places of up and coming musicians, and are apathetically slumming their ways towards insolvency, where will the next generation of musicians go to cut their teeth? Where will young men or women go to catch the music bug? Will people want to go live it up at a place that throbs with the aura of necrotizing dreams?
It feels to me like a little paint, a mop, and maybe some working urinals could go a long way to rejuvenate local music scenes. Am I wrong? Am I taking crazy pills here?

you are right in alot of ways, tough to make a living playing tunes no adays, please yourself an keep your day job, lol kinda reminds me of what happened to all the Mom an Pop stores we used to have, you live anywhere near here in Ca, sure do miss battle of the bands we use togo to back when I lived in Jersey, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[petrus61]

Upstate NY. Saratoga/Albany/Lake George area. I'm in 4 bands. Used to be in 6!

Albany has always had a vibrant live music scene. Pretty much cut my teeth at places like Savannahs, Rev Hall and Red Square (not sure if any of them are called that anymore) and there used to be a fantastic blues jam at Bourbon St in Colonie, but I'm talking 10 years ago. The names and locations have probably changed, but I'm sure it's still jumping up there. The Hudson Valley is also very supportive of live music and there's been a revival of sorts of bars playing host to more and more diverse live music like they used to back in the day.

 

[petrus61]

Cocaine costs more than toilets and paint and if you think a bar owner is going to pull from the coke fund to fix the bar up you are mistaken.

The oft overlooked underbelly of why many bars are even still in business.

 

[40Hz]

Tell me about the carpets.....I need to know

You only need to know two things:

1) They reluctantly part company with the sole of your shoe.

2) They may appear to be dark gray, but they'd actually be maroon if anybody were cruel enough to shampoo them and thereby risk destroying the huge colony of carpet mites that were living in it long enough to being well on their way to evolving an enlightened and technologically advanced civilization.