Are Local Venues Killing Music?

[pbassjbass]

Music is a tough business, so are bars. I tend to like the old dives that have been there forever, and do have a certain scent. I figure, who ever runs them, knows what they're doing. In general, we're up against not just a wide range of alternative entertainments, but even in a music setting, band vs dj, comes down to playing against a 70 year recorded catalog. A good band has the show, and live music to work with, but any DJ worth their salt has a really deep catalog to fit the mood of the audience. It's hard out there.

And if musicians would rather stay home.... its over, I just didn't get the memo.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

How 'bout this; A drummer friend of mine told me- club xyz could not play certain artists music or songs with a live band because the venue owner didn't, couldn't, wouldn't pay for a permit of some kind. The owner went back to the DJ.
He swears the owner told him this and I been knowing the drummer for 50yrs. Sounds like a good excuse not to have live music to me, We'd just not do that artists music right? WRONG!!! He shut down all live bands. It could be a city ordinance thing too. IDK.

Any venue that plays music from a stereo to live music needs a license from ASCAP/BMI to pay royalties to the songwriters as the music is part of what makes people come to the bar. If the bar owner doesnt want to buy a license, he can play it safe by having bands play only their own material.

 

[Novarocker]

subbed, curious to see where this goes. I've lucked out...In Lansing, there's a couple venues. One in particular does an amazing job at creating, promoting, and throwing events it's not even funny. It's mostly DIY, and mostly about $100/band/night, but that is with 3-5 1+ hour acts. Oh, and cover is rarely more than $5 and they got hamms in a can for $2 everyday and pbr pints for $2.50.

Awesome place, all kinds of music even on the same bill.

EDIT: the payout ranges, depends on the turnout. Oh and it's mostly originals, so definitely not you're only job lol.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Live music is dying. Plain and simple. If there's music it's DJ. People want to go out and watch TV. I'd rather watch a game at home on my 65" and eat my food and drink my drinks at half the cost. I can't watch/dance/listen to a live band in my house,

Strange, as playing live is the only way a musician can earn a buck. In my locale, live music is yuge!

 

[CaseyJ]

My area is jam packed full of places to play. People who run these places are committed to live music. Frankly, if the band sucks or the venue doesn't have a band that night, people walk down the street and listen elsewhere

reason #1000 that Upstate NY is amazing.

 

[jalapejoe]

The Twin Cities Minneapolis/Minnesota has a decent music scene. Places like The Park, Venue 13, Serums, Neisens's, First Avenue, Whiskey Junction, Bunker's to name a few. Not too bad for a gigging band here.

 

[Fat Freddy]

People don't drink as much as they used to, hence most bars are a losing proposition.

Bars need meeee!

 

[buldog5151bass]

If having live music meant increased income, the venues would support it.

- higher drinking age (and stricter enforcement) took away a lot of the market (no high schoolers and college kids packing the bars)
- stricter enforcement of more stringent dwi ( when I was in college, it was .15, and it was rare for someone to get arrested unless there was an accident)
- no smoking (I used to have a set of clothes and jacket just for gigs, since you could never get the stink out)
- with phones, more people are creating their own entertainment. Getting a driver's license is not the big rite of passage it used to be for many.
- less band-friendly pop music

 

[btmpancake]

Any venue that plays music from a stereo to live music needs a license from ASCAP/BMI to pay royalties to the songwriters as the music is part of what makes people come to the bar. If the bar owner doesnt want to buy a license, he can play it safe by having bands play only their own material.

Hey thanks; that sounds logical and maybe what's going on.

 

[CaseyJ]

If having live music meant increased income, the venues would support it.

- higher drinking age (and stricter enforcement) took away a lot of the market (no high schoolers and college kids packing the bars)
- stricter enforcement of more stringent dwi ( when I was in college, it was .15, and it was rare for someone to get arrested unless there was an accident)
- no smoking (I used to have a set of clothes and jacket just for gigs, since you could never get the stink out)
- with phones, more people are creating their own entertainment. Getting a driver's license is not the big rite of passage it used to be for many.
- less band-friendly pop music

nailed it

 

[Fat Freddy]

nailed it

Yep!....

 

[buldog5151bass]

nailed it

Thank you - I'll be here all week. Try the shrimp...

 

[buldog5151bass]

Any venue that plays music from a stereo to live music needs a license from ASCAP/BMI to pay royalties to the songwriters as the music is part of what makes people come to the bar. If the bar owner doesnt want to buy a license, he can play it safe by having bands play only their own material.

Only if that band has a following.

 

[D.M.N.]

I had my eyes opened about this when I was reading about the early days of American punk. CBGB's, the legendary CBGB's, was actually EXACTLY the kind of ****hole that you describe as to blame for killing live music - but it was ground zero for American punk, and later New Wave (Blondie and the Talking Heads came out of its scene). The other thing that really impressed me was how FEW venues those bands had to play in - CBGB's, Max's, and maybe two or three other places - in NEW YORK CITY. That gives me a bit of a perspective when I feel like there aren't enough venues for bands in little ole Manchester NH.

But the difference between CBGB's and most local dives is that they booked up and coming acts, and original acts. How many dives stick their neck out like that? Not many. Most just hire the local old blues/rock cover band. And if you ask me, that's what's really stifling local scenes and young musicians. There's often times no where for them to play, and the bands in the bars are the same guys that have been playing the same basic set for years. Young people don't want to bar and see people older than their parents playing wet blanket versions of the same songs they've been playing for years. I'm not trying to point fingers, if you enjoy doing that, great, but it shouldn't come as a surprise when people don't pack a bar for that sort of entertainment. People my age go out and listen to live music, at least where I am, but it's usually not for your standard blues rock stuff, it's for exciting stuff. That's not to say I don't understand why bars usually get the old standards, it's a safe business decision, it's usually a pretty known variable, taking a bet on an unknown isn't the smartest move. There's plenty of other factors as well, but that's a pretty big one in my book.

 

[Dean N]

....just having them on the floor during shows will turn them grey or scary brown.

Scary Brown. That's a band name right there.

 

[funkymonk13]

I'm confused. You're blaming venues for killing music, because the owners aren't running their business to your standards?
A crappy venue is still better to me than no venue.
maybe the places are dumpy because they can't afford to make them nice. People don't go out to support live music much, is it that unbelievable that a lot of these places are fighting to stay afloat?

Live music has died down a lot, because the times change. Young people are reacting to technology and the music that speaks to them, just like previous generations did.
Maybe venue owners would rather book a DJ, actually make some money to feed their families then book the bands you like. Can you really blame them?

I've met people who promote/organize events, from techno to live music festivals. It's not an easy thing to do. Some make money, but most I've met don't; mostly when your booking music that isn't super commercial. It's def a labor of love.

It's easy to complain about it, but what are you doing to promote your local music scene?

 

[PortlandBass77]

I don't know where you live, but the majority of the venues in Portland are awesome. Hell, the only issue is a lot of them do have stairs.

 

[kartiste]

View attachment 1029309 Wow. Been there, done that. Glad that I'm living in South Texas now and get to play in places like this.

Nice. Looks like Switzerland.

 

[socialleper]

I agree with you. Venues have not changed much in all the years I have been gigging.
Nowadays sports bars are the thing. 20 flat screen TV's and 50 patrons
glued to their i-phones. Less venues every year will lead to the demise
of local music.
People will drop $100 to see a big show but won't spend $10 at local venue.
Were doomed.

One of the cleaner places I've played as a Sports Bar. The stage was tiny and we had to rent a PA from an outside vendor, but it was a good crowd. Small town too; probably not much else to do.

 

[socialleper]

Kinda, but kinda not.

The bar business, from what I understand, is pretty high-risk. IIRC something like half of them go out of business within just their first year or two. You can make a killing in them if you strike gold and become the hip place in town where everyone wants to go; but otherwise you're scraping by on a poor margin or bleeding money.

When it comes to having a band, or not, it's a pretty straightforward calculation; will having a band mean I make more money than I would have made if I didn't have the band? If just as many people come and drink just as much and I don't have to fork over $500 to musicians, then I'm $500 more in the black. Having music makes sense only if it means more money in the till than I pay the musicians.

Depending on where you are, there's going to be a kind of ecosystem, where the population and demographics of the area are only going to be able to support a limited number of prime-quality clubs that can afford to really support live music. Then you'll have a string of second-tier places that barely scrape by but maybe the owners like having bands so they have them in anyway, and then desperate dives that probably won't last long but hey, maybe if we get a band in here it will bring in some customers. Bands have fans, right?

I had my eyes opened about this when I was reading about the early days of American punk. CBGB's, the legendary CBGB's, was actually EXACTLY the kind of ****hole that you describe as to blame for killing live music - but it was ground zero for American punk, and later New Wave (Blondie and the Talking Heads came out of its scene). The other thing that really impressed me was how FEW venues those bands had to play in - CBGB's, Max's, and maybe two or three other places - in NEW YORK CITY. That gives me a bit of a perspective when I feel like there aren't enough venues for bands in little ole Manchester NH.

Any business is risky, and I'm sure there are a lot of dominoes that need to fall in the right order for them to work. For some, the scuzzy vibe may work. A place like CBGBs was a response to the disco era, sort of a anti-disco, anti-decadence sort of thing. If you are Bob's Bar and look like CBGBs only don't have the vibe on purpose, or the bands to go along with it, that isn't a good sign.