Are modern amps "harsher"?

[JimmyM]

There are plenty of "harsh" amps and plenty of warm amps being made today. I hesitate to use the word "harsh," though they sound harsh to me But tube vs trad SS vs micro doesn't enter into it. There are harsh and warm examples all over the place. I hear commonalities of tones in each category, but they can be designed to sound any way you want, and many amps can do both harsh and warm. Some do one better than the other, but most amps are pretty versatile if you use the knobs.

 

[Pbassmanca]

Another random opinion--a lot of people are trying to get the sound of a an old recording board and a old compressor from their amp. That vast, cavernous depth, and the cavern is lined with velvet. Not gonna get t!

Ain't that the truth. Although....My M9 Carbine delivers some of that depth and flavour......

 

[megatapper]

I wish that I had put new tubes in my amp. When I owned one . I thought it was junk because I was just a kid. Sold it for peanut and have always regretted it . The fender showman or the 50 watt bassmann are my favorites. Nothing that I have played recently have touched them for rich full bass and great articulation. I currently am using a peavey 1800 watt solid state power amp and a sansamp RPM preamp with an Eden 4×10 ported cab. I also use a tube mic preamp with a zoom pedal that emulates a fender bassmann amp and a EHX soul food pedal volume all up distortion turned all the way down and the tone knob at 11:50 . Does the job for me.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

It all depends on what you mean by harsh I guess. For the flats loving, tweeter hating crowd ( nothing but love guys, I get it), I could totally see rigs with an extended frequency response - particularly in terms of high-frequency content as coming across as harsher to many ears.

If the harshness is due to a perceived "sterile" sounding ultra clean tone, then I could also see certain modern, high-wattage, super-clean amps being guilty by that definition.

Mind you, I'm not talking about amp class or anything, just things that personally associate with a "modern" sounding rig (it actually has nothing to do with the age of gear really).

In most cases a few knob turns, and maybe a few dollars in outboard gear can make a huge difference.

Just my 2c.

You can always add dirt to a clean amp, turn off tweeters, ease off the treble. The reverse, not so much.

Some warm amps are hard to replicate with pedals (OD, EQ, comprrssion, limiting), but to what extent that is audible live is another matter. Jimmy M would say it is, but with my cloth ears, not so much. Recording is another matter.

(I was called cloth ears as a kid as when I'm absorbed in something I don't hear anything else. My wife seems to be able to hear our dogs outside more than I do, but it's probably the same thing as my last hearing test a while ago was fine. It's handy on transport as I'm oblivious to screaming babies, but probably a good thing I'm not a parent)

 

[-Asdfgh-]

For 'standard' bass playing I like some warmth, and my Warwick ProFets (I bought two... Backup) are close enough. It's partly going against my own principles, but it is what I ended up with. I can bypass the preamp if I need totally transparent. It's not like my old Traynor YBA1A, though.

 

[Sparkl]

If you ever have a chance, you owe it to yourself to try a vintage B-15N such as this 1964, then decide.

They drip tone, ooze harmonics, and define the classic sound of bass.



View attachment 2963567


They also come in green.

View attachment 2963570

Is it the “seasoned in moist for decades” series?

 

[Acoustic356]

I was reading an article by Mike Pope where he said most amps and cabs are tuned to work well with passive jazz and passive precision basses. If you are playing an active bass you absolutely have to make adjustments in order to get the same round tone.

I tend to agree. I absolutely change the EQ points and what low mid and high mid frequencies I cut at the amp. Cutting these frequencies let’s me boost the mids if needed on my bass without getting those harsh tones.

I usually dial it in by turning the low mids all the way up on the amp, play the A string and sweeping tHrough the mids until I find the most offensive frequencies then I cut by setting the low mids at about 10am.

I then turn the high mids all the way up on the amp, play the D string and sweep through mids and repeat with a cut of the high mids.

Of course, this only works if you have an amp that lets you sweep low and high mids...

Once this is done, I find that regardless of the adjustment I do on my bass after that, I have great tone.

 

[40Hz]

The D-800 does have tube emulation circuitry in both the input and the output, the idea is to emulate how the different tube types and topologies break up when mildly overdriven. It's 100% discrete analog circuitry.

And Mesa did a great job on it as far as my ears are concerned. I've demoed the D800 and also recently heard one being played live with two different bands, the most recent being Ronnie Earl and the Broadcasters at B.B. King's. Pretty sweet sounding amp. I could easily get almost every sound I wanted just using the voicing control and deep switch. Having built in filtering to keep the low harmonics in check is also a big plus.

Very nice amp.

I want one...

 

[RickyWoo]

Having both modern and classic amps to compare, I can only tell you what I prefer (of what I own/have owned/have played through). Some others prefer the opposite and will swear it's light years better. Subjective, I say. Nobody's wrong when it comes to preference.

 

[BobbyT]

Plenty of examples of both harsh and mellow amps in the Class D category. For a good, warm, pillowy sound, check out the TC Electronic RH-450.

 

[Frank77]

I think they are. I really do. It's been discussed to death on here before in the context of class D vs everything else and the discussion always ends with people saying its not the class of the amp, but the designer's choices. Having said that, are modern designs trending "harsher"?

I feel like the emphasis on warm, round sounding tones has taken a backseat to clarity? I quite playing for a long time and when I started again, I noticed this immediately.

...then you simply haven't tried the right amp(s)! I used to swear by my class A/B combo amp: This thing is super transparent, articulate and warm - it triggered nothing but compliments during the 5-6 years I gigged with it and is exactly the sound I was after.

I recently bought a Class D head (Quilter Bass Block) which to my ears, sounds every bit as good (and actually a bit "warmer" and easier to dial in), is twice as powerful, and my overall rig weight has gone from 100 to 33 lbs. I sold my combo on Reverb yesterday and it almost felt like I got rid of a VCR just in time before it is worth pocket change.

To each their own. There's definitely going to be an increasing number of deals to be had on older amps, but I'm not interested in putting up with the size and the weight anymore, now that the lightweight modern stuff sounds as good or better than old A/B amps.

Also, Class D does not mean "digital".

 

[Nev375]

Are modern amps harsher? I think so.

Just the other day the guitarist was helping me load in and he said "Man, your amp doesn't weigh anything." It was then that the amp spoke up and said "Yeah if flapjack back there would start working out and lay off the Big Macks you'd probably be playing alongside an SVT! Amirite?! Hahahaha."

They just laughed and laughed. My old amp would never treat me that way.
_____________

Ok, carry on.

 

[RickyWoo]

...then you simply haven't tried the right amp(s)! I used to swear by my class A/B combo amp: This thing is super transparent, articulate and warm - it triggered nothing but compliments during the 5-6 years I gigged with it and is exactly the sound I was after.

I recently bought a Class D head (Quilter Bass Block) which to my ears, sounds every bit as good (and actually a bit "warmer" and easier to dial in), is twice as powerful, and my overall rig weight has gone from 100 to 33 lbs. I sold my combo on Reverb yesterday and it almost felt like I got rid of a VCR just in time before it is worth pocket change.

To each their own. There's definitely going to be an increasing number of deals to be had on older amps, but I'm not interested in putting up with the size and the weight anymore, now that the lightweight modern stuff sounds as good or better than old A/B amps.

Also, Class D does not mean "digital".

I'm not sure what you mean by "old A/B amps". Sure, the market has an upswinging trend in class D, but there's still a VERY HIGH demand for BRAND NEW "old A/B amps" in the professional/amateur market. Not everyone is going out and selling their gear either.

 

[Frank77]

I'm not sure what you mean by "old A/B amps". Sure, the market has an upswinging trend in class D, but there's still a VERY HIGH demand for BRAND NEW "old A/B amps" in the professional/amateur market. Not everyone is going out and selling their gear either.

Well, it IS an older technology. If I have to take a guess, I'd say the trend towards class D will keep going...but hey, I've been wrong before. Tube amps will remain popular for sure, but "traditionnal" SS amps? I honestly don't know, time will tell.

 

[pigpen1]

I was reading an article by Mike Pope where he said most amps and cabs are tuned to work well with passive jazz and passive precision basses. If you are playing an active bass you absolutely have to make adjustments in order to get the same round tone.

I tend to agree. I absolutely change the EQ points and what low mid and high mid frequencies I cut at the amp. Cutting these frequencies let’s me boost the mids if needed on my bass without getting those harsh tones.

I usually dial it in by turning the low mids all the way up on the amp, play the A string and sweeping tHrough the mids until I find the most offensive frequencies then I cut by setting the low mids at about 10am.

I then turn the high mids all the way up on the amp, play the D string and sweep through mids and repeat with a cut of the high mids.

Of course, this only works if you have an amp that lets you sweep low and high mids...

Once this is done, I find that regardless of the adjustment I do on my bass after that, I have great tone.

After reading this post and several others, it occurs that the terms I'm using to describe the sound I'm looking for are not the same as most people on TB. I feel active passes are always warmer and rounder sounding, if you kill a the treble on them a little.

For example there is a youtube vid of a guy playing a 4 strting warwick thumb bolt-on with an eden combo amp. I would consider this sound, in this specific case, to be warm, if not round, aleast until about 2:25 into the video. I know a lot of people will disagree. I think passive p's and j's are only warm with the tone mostly closed. P's to me sound brutal with open tone.

I think I can get a sound like this out of my Mesa if I swapped out the aggie DB cab for something less mid present.

 

[RickyWoo]

Well, it IS an older technology. If I have to take a guess, I'd say the trend towards class D will keep going...but hey, I've been wrong before. Tube amps will remain popular for sure, but "traditionnal" SS amps? I honestly don't know, time will tell.

Well, I can agree with all that. Didn't mean to single you out, I guess I just wanted some clarification.

 

[Frank77]

Well, I can agree with all that. Didn't mean to single you out, I guess I just wanted some clarification.

No worries, it's all good!

 

[pigpen1]

...then you simply haven't tried the right amp(s)! I used to swear by my class A/B combo amp: This thing is super transparent, articulate and warm - it triggered nothing but compliments during the 5-6 years I gigged with it and is exactly the sound I was after.

I recently bought a Class D head (Quilter Bass Block) which to my ears, sounds every bit as good (and actually a bit "warmer" and easier to dial in), is twice as powerful, and my overall rig weight has gone from 100 to 33 lbs. I sold my combo on Reverb yesterday and it almost felt like I got rid of a VCR just in time before it is worth pocket change.

To each their own. There's definitely going to be an increasing number of deals to be had on older amps, but I'm not interested in putting up with the size and the weight anymore, now that the lightweight modern stuff sounds as good or better than old A/B amps.

Also, Class D does not mean "digital".

I've owned class D amps from mesa, aguilar, and GK. I've played Mark Bass, Ampeg, Fender, Trace Elliot, and probably a couple others.
The Mesa and Aguilar to me are by far the best I've tried (which is why I bought them. Based on youtube (yeah, I know...) I don't think quilter would be for me, but the Fender Bassman stuff and Warwick stuff seems promising.

 

[Slevage]

I think they are. I really do. It's been discussed to death on here before in the context of class D vs everything else and the discussion always ends with people saying its not the class of the amp, but the designer's choices. Having said that, are modern designs trending "harsher"?

I feel like the emphasis on warm, round sounding tones has taken a backseat to clarity? I quite playing for a long time and when I started again, I noticed this immediately.

 

[Slevage]

I think they are. I really do. It's been discussed to death on here before in the context of class D vs everything else and the discussion always ends with people saying its not the class of the amp, but the designer's choices. Having said that, are modern designs trending "harsher"?

I feel like the emphasis on warm, round sounding tones has taken a backseat to clarity? I quite playing for a long time and when I started again, I noticed this immediately.

I can make my mark bass sound warm.