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Are modern amps "harsher"?

#102
Frank77 said:
Well, it IS an older technology. If I have to take a guess, I'd say the trend towards class D will keep going...but hey, I've been wrong before. Tube amps will remain popular for sure, but "traditionnal" SS amps? I honestly don't know, time will tell.
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I have old A/B SS amps as I got the first Warwick before class D became widespread and cheap, and when looking for a backup, another one turned up cheap as scratch and dent, so it was heavier, but logical.

I wish I'd kept the TEs, though.
 
#103
Nope. Nope. Nope. Modern amps sound really great. Depends on the amp and the user settings as well as bass. Of course there's a learning curve. Also you have your "clean" sounding Class D's and those that add a bit of "dirt" like Ampeg or Peavey. But yep, especially for live performance Class D sounds great. Going into the studio is quite a different animal.
 
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#104
pigpen1 said:
Like I posted earlier at about 3:20 in is what I'm call "warm and round"
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I'd call that "punchy and quite distorted." Vive la difference!
Yel_wink.gif
 
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#106
Cabinet choice might make a difference in perceived harshness as well, in combination with a given amp. Some of my amps seem brighter and a little less warm than others, but everything through my Bergantino Reference 210/112 stack just sounds fantastic (both class D and Tube amps), the tweeters are as smooth as can be, so no issues with brittle or harshness regardless of amp choice.
 
#107
No they are not "harsher", although they can be if you want them to.
Another plus for modern well deigned amps is the fact that evolution in amp design is pretty marvelous.
You can have that harsh edgy grinding thing, or you can dial up some more traditional sounds.
Sophisticated advancements in electronic components and design have gone from '57 Chevy to 2018 Lexus, (Hmm, which one would I rather drive cross a continent?).
 
#109
Haven't read all of the thread, apologies if this has been covered. I'm having a somewhat similar dilemma as pigpen. Only switched to class D in the past few years and love the portability; won't be switching back to tube or even A/B.

However, every class D I've played so far (GK, Phil Jones, Trace, Eden) has less low than I'm used to and accentuated mid/treble. I consider this sound harsh because I like the well-defined low and softened mid/treble. I recently swapped my 212 for a 115 and that helps, but still not quite where I like it. Either the lows are where I like them and the sound gets too muddy or I dial back the lows for clarity and I feel like I'm missing something.

I've heard the hybrid tube amps (GK MB fusions or MarkBass Tube/Rocker) can bring out more lows while staying lightweight. Any thoughts on that? I've added the Mesa D800 and Genzler Magellan as ones to look at since others have mentioned they have quality lows.
 
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#110
I've been using the Fender Rumble series for the last year and really like them, especially my 200. It's got a good 1x15" and if I buy a second cab it'll be another 1x15". I can get that 80s bright tone with the tweeter if I want, or use the Vintage tone shaping button plus scoop out some mids to get that John Deacon sound even on a J bass.
I admit I'm partial to the 15" speaker and won't be talked into a pair of 10"s any time soon. I think Eminence and Fender have done a great job, though the overdrive is a bit thin. I have a preamp for that if I really want it though.

I know it's tempting to say "digital" and equate it with harsh ... we all said that about the Yamaha DX7 in the 80s ... but that's just not true with these modern amps I don't think. Hell, if I still had my Fender Rhodes 73 (former keyboardist here), I wouldn't hesitate to run it through my Rumble200 with the vintage switch engaged. I'm sure a lot of the new Ampeg, Aguilar and other brands have similar sound.

I think when watching vids, it can be hard to assess an amp if the player is playing in a way you typically don't. Some reviewers are definitely better than others.
 
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#111
acid bass said:
Haven't read all of the thread, apologies if this has been covered. I'm having a somewhat similar dilemma as pigpen. Only switched to class D in the past few years and love the portability; won't be switching back to tube or even A/B.

However, every class D I've played so far (GK, Phil Jones, Trace, Eden) has less low than I'm used to and accentuated mid/treble. I consider this sound harsh because I like the well-defined low and softened mid/treble. I recently swapped my 212 for a 115 and that helps, but still not quite where I like it. Either the lows are where I like them and the sound gets too muddy or I dial back the lows for clarity and I feel like I'm missing something.

I've heard the hybrid tube amps (GK MB fusions or MarkBass Tube/Rocker) can bring out more lows while staying lightweight. Any thoughts on that? I've added the Mesa D800 and Genzler Magellan as ones to look at since others have mentioned they have quality lows.
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You might want to play with the controls on the GK MB series. I get some pretty deep tones out of my GK MB500. No complaints there! If you don't have more than three minutes to try out the amp maybe you could rent one for a couple days or a weekend. But I'm surprised about the lack of bottom end on GK. There are some GK players here that have the GK MB212 cabs and they swear they can carry a room with deep bottom with no problem. Also, as mentioned earlier, which cab you use makes a big difference too.

Ampeg is well known for "deep deep" end, and I'll bet the PF series would give out some pretty good bottom end. Might give them a try.
 
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#112
acid bass said:
However, every class D I've played so far (GK, Phil Jones, Trace, Eden) has less low than I'm used to and accentuated mid/treble. I consider this sound harsh because I like the well-defined low and softened mid/treble. I recently swapped my 212 for a 115 and that helps, but still not quite where I like it. Either the lows are where I like them and the sound gets too muddy or I dial back the lows for clarity and I feel like I'm missing something.

Any thoughts on that? I've added the Mesa D800 and Genzler Magellan as ones to look at since others have mentioned they have quality lows.
Click to expand...
IMO, all 4 of the amps you have played so far are voiced a bit more bright and mid forward, so it's not terribly surprising to me that your feel this way.

The D-800, the Magellian, the Forte, and even the Rumble 500 are voiced less bright and mid forward as a whole. You might give some of these a try and see if maybe one of these suits your taste and needs better.
 
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#113
acid bass said:
However, every class D I've played so far (GK, Phil Jones, Trace, Eden) has less low than I'm used to and accentuated mid/treble.
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If you had only tried an Aguilar TH500 and the Mesa Subway D-800 you might have erroneously concluded that all class D heads are more low and low/mid-mid focused without the glassy/bright top end you're used to from the old class AB GK RB's or Mesa Carbines.

It's really more about how the designer chose to voice a particular amp to meet the needs/expectations of the intended customer set than it is about class of amp. Once your class D sample size expands, you'll likely draw a much different conclusion than you have now. Although, FWIW I've never heard anyone complain about not enough low end emphasis in a GK head, or that they're not mid scooped enough, especially not the MB's...clearly YMMV! :)
 
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#115
agedhorse said:
IMO, all 4 of the amps you have played so far are voiced a bit more bright and mid forward, so it's not terribly surprising to me that your feel this way.

The D-800, the Magellian, the Forte, and even the Rumble 500 are voiced less bright and mid forward as a whole. You might give some of these a try and see if maybe one of these suits your taste and needs better.
Click to expand...

So I took my d800+ back to the Mesa dealer where I bought it. Tried out a subway 2x10 and PH 4x10. For sure both these get me closer to where I'd want to be as a default starting point that my Aggie DB212. BUT...I came home and approximated the sound be Cutting what seem to be 800hz-1khz back to about the 8:00 or 9:00 (I did still cut some on the Mesa cabs too), voicing at noon, HPF at about 9:00-10:00, cutting treble to about 10:00, and throwing the low switch on.

I know cutting mids like that is a TB sin, just like mixed cabs and cranking low end, but I love it. I just don't like hi mids. I'm sure my speakers will take a beating but it makes me more excited to play with this sound.
 
#116
pigpen1 said:
What would warm and round be to you?
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Neither one of those words mean anything to me as audio quality descriptors, in all honesty. But as a former sound provider and gear repair guy, I have plenty of experience trying to read between the lines. As a default, I would assume a classical reggae sound, most likely.
 
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