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Are the big amps history?
- Thread starter jkalads
- Start date
I currently play with an artist who agrees with you.
Lectured me on the "professionalism" of the big rig, all the while opening for bigger names that have zero amps onstage.
I've been playing bass long enough that my first gear was bought brand spanking new in 1968. A Gibson EB-2 and a black tuck 'n roll Kustom 100. Still remember paying $1,500.00 (about 4k adjusted for inflation) and had never really played yet, just knew it was what i wanted to try.
The rigs got bigger, used Sunn 200s,
then a Marshall stack and EB-3 (yep, Jack Bruce). Then on to Acoustic 370 and 3 Cerwin Vega cabs and so on...
Then the usual:
married, kids, career, mortgage, music took a back seat and gear was liquidated.
Fast fwd kids grown and out and i've still got gigs, but now i have a little cash so i began to experiment with lightweight gear:
TC Electronics RH450
Yamaha BBT500h
2 Phil Jones C4 cabs
2 Hartke Hydrive 112
All sounded good, sometimes great, but now i'm playing a more traditional style of rock and R&B a lot and was constantly twiddling knobs looking for the authentic sounds that i clearly recalled (because i was there back then lol) and wasn't getting it.
So I experimented buying up a small stable of vintage amps and cabs seeking that vintage tone i sought. Not close, not ballpark, but nailed it. Nothing sounds like that but the stuff they used back then. Wow now what?
My compromise has been to find the period correct smaller versions of those monstrous rigs so new (to me) old stuff rocks if you shop carefully and need vintage tone more than deafening volume:
Acoustic 126 combo all original 70 lbs (heaviest piece but ultra cool vibe & tone)
Acoustic 270 head (45 lbs?) and vintage 1x15 cab (48 lbs the smallest i could find was by Peavey w/rear vent-horn)
Ampeg B100r 55lb (great svt tone)
All analog circuitry, all ferrous magnets.
To sum, the new light stuff sounds like most of today's music, good or bad. It takes old stuff to sound like, well, old stuff. 50's, 60's, 70's music sounds best on the old equipment and it's super easy to find those authentic elusive vintage sounds on period correct equipment.
It's a little more trouble than my ultra-light rigs (which have only seen rehearsals lately), but i LOVE the difference i hear when i need it.
The rigs got bigger, used Sunn 200s,
then a Marshall stack and EB-3 (yep, Jack Bruce). Then on to Acoustic 370 and 3 Cerwin Vega cabs and so on...
Then the usual:
married, kids, career, mortgage, music took a back seat and gear was liquidated.
Fast fwd kids grown and out and i've still got gigs, but now i have a little cash so i began to experiment with lightweight gear:
TC Electronics RH450
Yamaha BBT500h
2 Phil Jones C4 cabs
2 Hartke Hydrive 112
All sounded good, sometimes great, but now i'm playing a more traditional style of rock and R&B a lot and was constantly twiddling knobs looking for the authentic sounds that i clearly recalled (because i was there back then lol) and wasn't getting it.
So I experimented buying up a small stable of vintage amps and cabs seeking that vintage tone i sought. Not close, not ballpark, but nailed it. Nothing sounds like that but the stuff they used back then. Wow now what?
My compromise has been to find the period correct smaller versions of those monstrous rigs so new (to me) old stuff rocks if you shop carefully and need vintage tone more than deafening volume:
Acoustic 126 combo all original 70 lbs (heaviest piece but ultra cool vibe & tone)
Acoustic 270 head (45 lbs?) and vintage 1x15 cab (48 lbs the smallest i could find was by Peavey w/rear vent-horn)
Ampeg B100r 55lb (great svt tone)
All analog circuitry, all ferrous magnets.
To sum, the new light stuff sounds like most of today's music, good or bad. It takes old stuff to sound like, well, old stuff. 50's, 60's, 70's music sounds best on the old equipment and it's super easy to find those authentic elusive vintage sounds on period correct equipment.
It's a little more trouble than my ultra-light rigs (which have only seen rehearsals lately), but i LOVE the difference i hear when i need it.
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While class D heads and Bag End 15's are mostly the rule for me these days I recently acquired a vintage Kustom 250 head with matching (black) 1x18" cab w/ covers for a song, works great and is loud as hell, I have no idea what I'll do with it but it looks pretty damn cool. Imagine a tuck and roll version of a vintage Acoustic 370 rig, Big, Heavy and Badass
From what I have gathered skimming through that paper we are both right:
"Reality then is neither digital nor analogue and yet it is both."
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Kind of surprised they still have the ad up, its been in my garage for a couple weeks now,
at any rate it was just to cool to pass up, always wanted one of these and you never see this model, its generally a 2x15" or the occasional 3x15" which IMO really sounded bad, this folded W design is a beast. Didn't pay the listed price either, I think they were glad to have somebody take it off there hands.
see post #264
Kind of surprised they still have the ad up, its been in my garage for a couple weeks now,
at any rate it was just to cool to pass up, always wanted one of these and you never see this model, its generally a 2x15" or the occasional 3x15" which IMO really sounded bad, this folded W design is a beast. Didn't pay the listed price either, I think they were glad to have somebody take it off there hands.
see post #264
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I agree, they've dried up - Could have picked up a Trace AH600-12 with two cabs for $600 in Atlanta 3 years ago. I already had a big rig, and let it go to the next guy.
Big Cabs?
I got your big cabs right here..
Cream at Whiskey a Go-Go 1967 (The night club holds maybe 100 people tops)
I got your big cabs right here..
Cream at Whiskey a Go-Go 1967 (The night club holds maybe 100 people tops)
There are two things to consider.
1) The average age of a bass player now is considerably older than in the 60's and 70's for those that play covers, originals, or traditional r&r. I still have a Kustom 250 w/ a 215 bottom. It still works very well. Problem? I can no longer lift it. There is no way in heck I could lift a fridge. This alone drives demand to smaller rigs.
2) New stuff is far lighter than equipment "in the olden days". The new stuff is also far more efficient. One can get "olden days" sound that is reasonably close for 1/4 of the weight.
I believe that these two things lead to fewer sales of BIG rigs. That doesn't mean that there is no demand for the big stuff. Rather, there is less demand than there was 40 or 50 years ago.
I wish I could still use - and move - a 300W tube head and an 810 cab. With psoriatic arthritis in both knees, it just ain't happening.
1) The average age of a bass player now is considerably older than in the 60's and 70's for those that play covers, originals, or traditional r&r. I still have a Kustom 250 w/ a 215 bottom. It still works very well. Problem? I can no longer lift it. There is no way in heck I could lift a fridge. This alone drives demand to smaller rigs.
2) New stuff is far lighter than equipment "in the olden days". The new stuff is also far more efficient. One can get "olden days" sound that is reasonably close for 1/4 of the weight.
I believe that these two things lead to fewer sales of BIG rigs. That doesn't mean that there is no demand for the big stuff. Rather, there is less demand than there was 40 or 50 years ago.
I wish I could still use - and move - a 300W tube head and an 810 cab. With psoriatic arthritis in both knees, it just ain't happening.
Michael Schreiber
Commercial User
I feel a frantic urge to go shopping in the USA
Seriously, the situation in Germany is different in that respect; used SVTs, especially the VRs, are sometimes at the same price as a new one. Recently, I saw a used one for over 1.650 Euro... that's around US $1880, and that's suspiciously cheap. The other one I spotted is an SVT-VR plus an 810, together for 4.500 Euro ($5.130). That's it. Just two VRs on the German online used market. These amps hold their value amazingly well. So, seing CL is sometimes like peeking into wonderland for me!
And to answer the thread question: No, not in Germany, we drive small cars, but play through big amps
I had the earlier AH500-12 version. It was a fantastic sounding head, with one of the best compressors I've used. Cost a little bit over $1000 IIRC, of course w/ no cabs!
You can't really cheat the physics and acoustics of larger bass cabinets. Bass heads do not need to be any particular size to be awesome and powerful anymore.
Big rigs will always have a well-deserved constituency because of the air-moving mass of the cabinets.
Big rigs will always have a well-deserved constituency because of the air-moving mass of the cabinets.
As God intended, ROCK ON!I feel a frantic urge to go shopping in the USA
And to answer the thread question: No, not in Germany, we drive small cars, but play through big amps
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
It's not about cheating physics, it's about taking better advantage of advances in the engineering behind the physics. There was a LOT of potential performance given up in many of the older designs that, had the designers known more, they never would have done that way (me included).
I agree totally. But there is nothing for me that quite does it like a good Ole tube amp. My favorite one currently is the fender bassman 300 pro heavy as hell, 3d as hell, and rich in tone and tone capability.
I will also say solid state has got some really great sounding amps that literally weigh nothing compared to a big tube rig. Eventually my back will get tired or worn out and I may have to strap the tube rig to a portable hand cart that folds out or just go solid state.
I feel a frantic urge to go shopping in the USA
Seriously, the situation in Germany is different in that respect; used SVTs, especially the VRs, are sometimes at the same price as a new one. Recently, I saw a used one for over 1.650 Euro... that's around US $1880, and that's suspiciously cheap. The other one I spotted is an SVT-VR plus an 810, together for 4.500 Euro ($5.130). That's it. Just two VRs on the German online used market. These amps hold their value amazingly well. So, seing CL is sometimes like peeking into wonderland for me!
And to answer the thread question: No, not in Germany, we drive small cars, but play through big amps
Yes, Michael, but YOU can get a Glockenlang to use for your Marleaux, or the incredible BassLab, oran Amazing KRISTALL, an out-of-this World LeFay, maybe a Soulbrotha by OFFGuitar design.
Wow, beeindruckt!!
Thems' some incredible basses !Then -you can drive around with them in some of the World's best-engineered cars too!
I still have a couple of large amps, but I never really use them. When I started there was really no other way to properly capture bass on a stage of any size than a powerful amp with large speaker cabinets. Technology has advanced since then, so they just aren't necessary any longer. Now the PA does the heavy lifting for all but the smallest stages (which really only require a small amp), and I'm happy for it. I no longer have to schlep 150 lbs. of gear. I no longer have to pay drayage fees. The sound on stage and in the house are better without the leviathan behind me rumbling away. Volume wars on stage are a thing of the past. I no longer need a truck to get to a gig (unless I'm providing the PA).
Large amps aren't history because some folks just prefer to let the old ways continue...and because some are drawn in by clever advertising of a product that has outlived its purpose. To each their own; there's nothing quite like playing in front of a massive stack of cabs blowing hard. (Everyone should strap in and ride the lighting at least once in their life!) Nonetheless, I'll continue to be very happy that my large bass amplification systems remain at home where they can quietly sit as a testament to days gone by.
Large amps aren't history because some folks just prefer to let the old ways continue...and because some are drawn in by clever advertising of a product that has outlived its purpose. To each their own; there's nothing quite like playing in front of a massive stack of cabs blowing hard. (Everyone should strap in and ride the lighting at least once in their life!) Nonetheless, I'll continue to be very happy that my large bass amplification systems remain at home where they can quietly sit as a testament to days gone by.
