You are confusing the cause and the effect. Expensive instruments typically command higher resale value. So, what is the problem?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Are used costs hurting our community?
- Thread starter S.O.T.G. Rich
- Start date
You are confusing the cause and the effect. Expensive instruments typically command higher resale value. So, what is the problem?
My current Number One was bought used, as was the one before that, but my previous three basses were all bought new. I'm a huge fan of buying used. Aside from the basses, almost the entire rest of my rig consists of gear bought used in mint condition at a substantial discount from the new price.
My next two basses, however, will probably be new custom builds, because I intend for them to be "forever" basses, likely the last two I will buy in this life, and what I want is specific. One fretted, one fretless, but otherwise identical.
But, even buying used, $1000 tends to be the lower limit, because I buy only professional grade instruments—basically Fender American Deluxe or the equivalent and up—and that's just how much they cost.
Exactly. I sold my first Deep 4 to get another and the Solid 4 when I was no longer using it. Neither was necessarily an easy sale. I didn't order and use them with the intent of selling either but it happened. I've also gotten rid of things like a Takamine TB10 as well - talk about a niche instrument! That was super hard to find the right buyer. I was under no illusion that wouldn't be the case, either. I've been lucky not to get "stuck" with things I was no longer using but at least I could try to sell here where someone may want it.
If you can afford it, $1k new or used is a decent price point. I've played plenty of instruments in my life on all scales of the cost spectrum. I can say that custom basses especially when it comes to necks generally you can feel the difference right away. A mass produced neck can be more consistent from instrument to instrument. A hand carved one with rolled frets and shaped the way I want is a very different thing.
I own a 2014 Fender American Precision Deluxe, a 2016 Fender American Jazz Standard, a 2017 Gretsch 6128 Thunderjet and a 2011 Gibson USA Les Paul Standard oversized. All with OHSC and all less than a $1,000 each
Both the Thunderjet and Precision were purchased less than a year after the PO bought new.
I was very lucky as all 4 are in immaculate condition.
I waited what felt like eons for the right MIA Jazz Standard.
Simple. If a used bass is priced "too high", it won't sell.
If a used bass sold, even for a price YOU think was ridiculous, clearly, it was not priced "too high" because someone actually bought it.
Here's the thing. Some ASKING prices right now are what I would define as too high. But I don't get to define too high for the whole market... only me. But if the asking price literally is too high, nobody will buy it and it will sit.
Don't confuse asking price with selling price. Again, if it sold, it wasn't too high. If it sits, either its too high or simply something nobody wants (or both).
I just today bought an item we can't discuss here. I paid about $150 more than what the item sold for new only a few years ago. But I still got a bargain. Why? That particular item is in such high demand that people are literally paying $1000 more than new price for it. I paid $800 for an item that sold for $650 a few years ago and got a deal. Times are strange.
You're overthinking it. The value of an item is the highest price someone will actually pay for it. Period. YOUR PERCEPTION of the value (whether you personally thinks it's too high ot too low) has exactly zero to do with the actual market value.
And there's nothing morally wrong with any of this. I'm extremely satisfies with both the item I got and tue price I paid for it. So I didn't get ripped off. If someone is extremely satisfied with a $10,000 used bass (which nobody forced him/her to buy to begin with), then "nobody done nobody wrong". (Intentional improper grammar. )
Keep your morality out of my free market, thank you. Your morality doesn't match mine and shouldn't dictate what is "too high".
If a used bass sold, even for a price YOU think was ridiculous, clearly, it was not priced "too high" because someone actually bought it.
Here's the thing. Some ASKING prices right now are what I would define as too high. But I don't get to define too high for the whole market... only me. But if the asking price literally is too high, nobody will buy it and it will sit.
Don't confuse asking price with selling price. Again, if it sold, it wasn't too high. If it sits, either its too high or simply something nobody wants (or both).
I just today bought an item we can't discuss here. I paid about $150 more than what the item sold for new only a few years ago. But I still got a bargain. Why? That particular item is in such high demand that people are literally paying $1000 more than new price for it. I paid $800 for an item that sold for $650 a few years ago and got a deal. Times are strange.
You're overthinking it. The value of an item is the highest price someone will actually pay for it. Period. YOUR PERCEPTION of the value (whether you personally thinks it's too high ot too low) has exactly zero to do with the actual market value.
And there's nothing morally wrong with any of this. I'm extremely satisfies with both the item I got and tue price I paid for it. So I didn't get ripped off. If someone is extremely satisfied with a $10,000 used bass (which nobody forced him/her to buy to begin with), then "nobody done nobody wrong". (Intentional improper grammar. )
Keep your morality out of my free market, thank you. Your morality doesn't match mine and shouldn't dictate what is "too high".
I bought a used 1968 Fender Telecaster in 1970 for $180, from a music store, in "like new" condition. I figure that's around $1000 +/- today. So, take away the collector value, Your analysis seems right to me.
This seems like it has face validity, but it's pretty academic. The real issue is that our labour is of no comparison to labour overseas. My time is actually worth closer to 40 dollars an hour, but the same labour can be had over there for less than 2 bucks an hour. You can work on economy of scale all you like, its the labour that makes or breaks it.
Yes and no.
Is your labor truly the equivalent of their labor? The depends on the perspective of the buyer.
There are also some other issues - like environmental standards, regulations, taxes, etc.
In a perfect world, you wouldn't have those differences, or people would properly value the differences. Unfortunately that doesn't happen so the closest we have is tariffs, which are imperfect.
It's funny - mathematically speaking, it's impossible to have a trade deficit, and yet there's a very real one. It all comes down to capital flows, and essentially investing in dollar denominated assets and debt is far more attractive than purchasing our exports. Our strong dollar helps drive cheap imports, and low interest rates, but it kills exports and is the result of us being owned by/owing investors abroad. Not to go too far on a tangent, but trade deficits track government budget deficits.
But back to your original statement...is your time really worth $40/hour? Perhaps to you it is, but the only way to determine whether it is accurate is if others are willing to pay that much for your time. Maybe it's more, maybe it's less...and perhaps it makes a difference as to what service you are providing for that time.
The used market does have an impact because a used instrument is a substitute good. If used instruments cost 10% of new ones, it will have an impact.
One other fun fact to consider: the long run profitability of a commoditized product is approximately zero. That's why it is essential to have brand equity and some level of differentiation.
What do I think when I see people complain about prices on instruments? I think people have been spoiled rotten and exploit each other and other humans- especially cheap labor in other countries- to fuel throw away consumerism. We don't respect or value quality, serviceable goods that pay real artisans or workers a living wage while attempting to satisfy an unsatisfiable need that is actually a programmed mental illness. It is unsustainable. And i'm completely guilty of being a part of/ product of all of this. That's what I think.
Exactly. For example, just try buying a bunch of tulips in Amsterdam in September 1636.
Apply that measuring stick to anything else - it's not just instruments. For example, what about musicians getting paid $.00001 per play on a streaming service? The list goes on and on. Manufacturers get no cut of used goods so once it's bought at the new price (either by a store or individual), used means pretty much nothing to them.
Basic Economics:
The buyer sets the market price, he can always decline to buy. What is driving up prices is supply and demand. More people want to buy instruments than want to sell.
The market is what it is, and often there's more to new instrument price than most think. It's mostly about the cost of business to build something domestically with skilled labor and less about name players and market perception. There always seems to be a contingent that thinks that because the raw materials for a custom Fodera cost $1,000, Fodera should charge $1,500 for the bass instead of the 10k they get.
Last edited:
