Are used costs hurting our community?

[Deleted member 165050]

I would like people's opinion on the subject.
Today scrolling through the classifieds.... I think about how much builders are charging for instruments based on resale. I believe we enable builders to charge ridiculous prices for their work by over pricing the used market.

Very true, particularly of Wal basses. I have an old one and I love it, but they are crazy overpriced and every time the new Wal maker raises prices all the Wal owners think the price of theirs goes up to follow. This is capitalism at its worst, comrades. We must take the boutique bass makers into state ownership to be run by a people's collective.

 

[oldcatfish]

I will just say this. Have you ever looked at the prices of violins?
Even the most expensive custom basses, are nothing in comparison. Not exactly the same, but builders of both instruments possess skills that most people do not. And if people are willing to pay the price that they charge, that is just the way it is.

 

[MDBass]

I would like people's opinion on the subject.
Today scrolling through the classifieds.... I think about how much builders are charging for instruments based on resale. I believe we enable builders to charge ridiculous prices for their work by over pricing the used market.

That's not how the rules of Supply and Demand work.

Builders/suppliers can attempt to charge whatever they'd like: the market/demand decides whether their prices are reasonable or not.

 

[user362432]

That's not how the rules of Supply and Demand work.

Builders/suppliers can attempt to charge whatever they'd like: the market/demand decides whether their prices are reasonable or not.

If that's the case, why some of instruments stay 3 years unsold? I would rather say it is overproduction of all possible instruments these days from $80 Glarry to custom things of $10 000. Especially, coming from Asia.
Wait a bit, when market gets into red, unemployment around Globe hits high and demand hits zero.

 

[brianrost]

I believe we enable builders to charge ridiculous prices for their work by over pricing the used market.

???????

Prices are only ridiculous when you can't afford them.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I guess that I've seen a few examples where used prices were higher than new prices for very high demand items, but in general, new prices do not follow used prices.

 

[pappabass]

Some Custom bass are overpriced. Pickups, capacitors can only be so good. Same for tuners.

 

[M.R. Ogle]

I would like people's opinion on the subject.
Today scrolling through the classifieds.... I think about how much builders are charging for instruments based on resale. I believe we enable builders to charge ridiculous prices for their work by over pricing the used market.

Why would "we" do that?

 

[Fender_Bender]

Well, everything I've been hearing the past couple of years is that people have a real tough time selling their used basses. They have to wait a long time and don't get what they feel it's worth.

 

[Pings Bass]

You can get a quality new or used instrument for less (when adjusted for inflation) than at any time in my (>50 year) life. Custom builders charge what the market will bear, and likely give little consideration to the used market.

The gent doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[bobdabilder]

We can't and you shouldn't.

Inflation drives prices up.
But, we are cannot discuss that issue here.

 

[lfmn16]

There's an active thread right now where a guy is (sincerely; no fault on him) asking if we think $1200 was too much for a Fernandes.

No judgment. Just an observation that five years ago you could buy four of them at that price if you could find them.

You just about still can. A quick look on Reverb shows 6 under $500, 2 right about $300.

 

[Bass Viking]

I would like people's opinion on the subject.
Today scrolling through the classifieds.... I think about how much builders are charging for instruments based on resale. I believe we enable builders to charge ridiculous prices for their work by over pricing the used market.

What matters is not the asking price but the selling price.

 

[MDBass]

If that's the case, why some of instruments stay 3 years unsold? I would rather say it is overproduction of all possible instruments these days from $80 Glarry to custom things of $10 000. Especially, coming from Asia.
Wait a bit, when market gets into red, unemployment around Globe hits high and demand hits zero.

Any instrument that remains on the market unsold for three years is obviously overpriced: otherwise it would have been purchased.

If demand stays equal, overproduction (an increase of supply) will cause prices to decrease: as mentioned above what matters is the selling price, not the asking price.

This same dynamic explains why the wait time for a custom order Dingwall was 3 months five years ago and is now around 18 months, even though their prices have increased considerably: the demand for their products has increased exponentially.

 

[B-Mac]

I would like people's opinion on the subject.
Today scrolling through the classifieds.... I think about how much builders are charging for instruments based on resale. I believe we enable builders to charge ridiculous prices for their work by over pricing the used market.

What is a ridiculous price to you is fine with someone else or is a bargain with someone else or even more ridiculous with someone else.
It all has to do with your economic situation dictating what you can and can't afford and your patience to save for something that is a bit out of reach.
I have a psychological limit of $1,000. I've broken that limit twice out of 92 times. I've been lucky waiting patiently for certain items to come along that came under my limit.
Used prices can be driven greatly by the situation the seller is in which really have nothing to do with the bass being sold. Trying to make rent, trying to get a car repair bill paid, medical bills, or being well off and not in a hurry to sell and naming a price that possibly many would think is ridiculous...except to the person who can afford it and is looking for that particular bass in a certain minimal acceptable condition to that particular buyer.
To me, it's all relative. YMMV

 

[Beej]

I build guitars and basses, but it's not something that I can do to support myself. There's just not a lot of money in it and too much competition.

I built this a while back:

If I sold it for $2500.00, I'd be making about 22 bucks an hour. That's not full time pay either, that's for this piece, and I'd have to sell them consistently all year to make money. Ive found most people haven't got the first clue what it takes to build, how much is involved and what the real costs are. If anything has devalued the market, its buying cheaply made items with overseas labor and charging regular made in the USA prices for them.

 

[Killing Floor]

I think rather than bash builders for making nice things with their hands (and machines and tools) we need to consider that a big factor in setting the sale price of a custom or customized guitar is the Experience.
A Custom Shop Fender P isn't really all that different from an American Pro. Yes, of course it's a little nicer but how much? Fit and finish and some personalization in details but it's valuable to the buyer because it is made for the buyer. That's esoteric but it has value. That experience is a real delta that some people will gladly pay for.

 

[S.O.T.G. Rich]

I build guitars and basses, but it's not something that I can do to support myself. There's just not a lot of money in it and too much competition.

I built this a while back:
View attachment 4071344

If I sold it for $2500.00, I'd be making about 22 bucks an hour. That's not full time pay either, that's for this piece, and I'd have to sell them consistently all year to make money. Ive found most people haven't got the first clue what it takes to build, how much is involved and what the real costs are. If anything has devalued the market, its buying cheaply made items with overseas labor and charging regular made in the USA prices for them.

Understandable but let's say you had a fully automated facility. Do you think your opinion would be the same? I know what is involved in building. I understand the time and effort. The costs of good materials. My opinion is based on paying 8k for CNC shops and fully automated shop prices. I do not understand A quote I got for a bass for 69k from Warwick. I don't see a standard stingray being worth over 2k. What makes a bass sell for 22k that is put together by machines?

I didn't really consider small/real boutique builders when I posted the initial comments. Mostly because I could understand that market. That is my fault for sure.

 

[Killing Floor]

I build guitars and basses, but it's not something that I can do to support myself. There's just not a lot of money in it and too much competition.

I built this a while back:
View attachment 4071344

If I sold it for $2500.00, I'd be making about 22 bucks an hour. That's not full time pay either, that's for this piece, and I'd have to sell them consistently all year to make money. Ive found most people haven't got the first clue what it takes to build, how much is involved and what the real costs are. If anything has devalued the market, its buying cheaply made items with overseas labor and charging regular made in the USA prices for them.

Nice blocks! I could tune it, kinda play it, could maybe spread the glue under supervision!

 

[Beej]

Nice blocks! I could tune it, kinda play it, could maybe spread the glue under supervision!

You've described me to a T.